To Tune or Not To Tune?

[Jamesc]

 

[Sarong1]

Older CD HUs still sounded better than modern ones...despite the technology advancement. Perhaps the older HUs delivered more "analog" sound compared with modern digital ones?

Views?

[richard_crl032]

21 hours ago, Sarong1 said:

Older CD HUs still sounded better than modern ones...despite the technology advancement. Perhaps the older HUs delivered more "analog" sound compared with modern digital ones?

Views?

Hey Sarong1,

Believe all modern or antiqued HUs are digital and never analog .. only digital with "modern" installations is the prevalent use of dsp for processing for active system which means not using analog aka passive crossover.

Guess I am opening another can of worms on active vs passive installation but I am partial to active ones. For me, it has to sound right before sounding good which means almost mandatory use of active installation ...  with all the well known challenges in car enviroment especially the cruel fact that we pay top $ to sit on right side of the concert stage facing the right speakers ..

Time to stop embarassing myself in front of you as my experience and know-hows are primarily from home hifi .. I am only a beneficiary of your generosity .. will let other semi gurus and gurus to comment further.

Cheers.

Richard

 

 

[Jamesc]

Everyone here is absolutely right.

My right mid bass speaker is firing at my right knee and the left mid bass is a few feet away.

We need to delay the sound from the right speakers so they arrive at the same time as the sound from the left speaker.

Also we need the dsp to raise the sound stage from knee level to ear level.

Lastly we need to use the equalizer to correct the frequency.

The tweeters firing at the windscreen and reflecting off the glass might sound very loud and bright.

May need to decrease the gain and tone down the high notes to reduce the brightness.

Only way is to go active and use a dsp.

The only down side of going active is cost and complexity of tuning.

If anyone can afford and music is important to them then that's the way to go.

[Jamesc]

21 hours ago, Sarong1 said:

Older CD HUs still sounded better than modern ones...despite the technology advancement. Perhaps the older HUs delivered more "analog" sound compared with modern digital ones?

Views?

Not only the head units I think the old amps also sound more "analog".

When I went to buy my car speakers the dealer used the PPI Art amps to drive the speakers and they sounded wonderful, rich, warm, not analytical and just musical.

 

[Jamesc]

If anyone would like to share their thoughts or opinions.

If I was to use a pair of good entry level speakers like a Helix F 62C instead of a more expensive mid range speakers like the Helix Esprit E 62C would spending the money on a dsp like a Pioneer DEQ S1000a make the cheaper speaker sound like the more expensive speaker?

Also if I were skip the two layers of front door sound proofing and used the money for the dsp can I increase the mid bass using the dsp to get a similar sound as if I sound proofed the doors?

 

[Jamesc]

From the good o'l days.

[richard_crl032]

15 hours ago, Jamesc said:

From the good o'l days.

Hi James,

Think my PPI still in my storeroom.

Here is my good new days 🙂

Cheers.

Richard

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by richard_crl032

[Jamesc]

51 minutes ago, richard_crl032 said:

Hi James,

Think my PPI still in my storeroom.

Here is my good new days 🙂

Cheers.

Richard

 

Hi Richard 

Pure class A fantastic pure sound. 

That's a really nice amp. 

What speakers are you using with your system? 

[richard_crl032]

43 minutes ago, Jamesc said:

Hi Richard 

Pure class A fantastic pure sound. 

That's a really nice amp. 

What speakers are you using with your system? 

Hi James,

Yes, but Class A up to 50W only which suffices for especially tweeters within sane loudness while midbass and sub are the MSK1500 for more serious power.

Was 4-way MP Z series of this 7 year old's 50th bird-day plunge previously in estima but recently swapped the 4th way MP Z "sub" with "real" Morel Titanium 104 sub albeit still 10" cos boxed into side rear panel of 2 year old forester xt.

Android HU to usb Helix dsp pro as  main system and added few weeks ago, the digione signature to coaxial Helix dsp pro courtesy of kaki Boring here and tuned up by another kaki Sarong1 here 🙂

Cheers.

Richard

Class A:

POWER:

Power 4 ohms stereoWatt RMS – 11 to 14.4 Volt 100 x 2
Power 2 ohms stereoWatt RMS – 11 to 14.4 Volt 200 x 2
Power in Watts RMS CLASS A – 11 to 14.4 Volt 50 x 2

SENSITIVITY ‘ENTRANCE:

Volts RMS 0.4 V – 5.5 V

DIMENSIONS:

466 x 60 x 255 mm

WEIGHT:

7 Kg

 

MSK1500

POWER:

Power 4 ohms stereoWatt RMS – 11 to 14.4 Volt 200 x 2
Power 2 ohms stereoWatt RMS – 11 to 14.4 Volt 400 x 2
Power 4 ohms monoWatt RMS – 11 to 14.4 Volt 800 x 1
Power 2 ohms monoWatt RMS – 11 to 14.4 volts 1500 x 1

SENSITIVITY ‘ENTRANCE:

Volts RMS 0.5 V – 5 V

DIMENSIONS:

420 x 60 x 255 mm

WEIGHT:

7.4 Kg

Edited November 21, 2019 by richard_crl032

[Jamesc]

4 hours ago, richard_crl032 said:

Hi James,

Yes, but Class A up to 50W only which suffices for especially tweeters within sane loudness while midbass and sub are the MSK1500 for more serious power.

Was 4-way MP Z series of this 7 year old's 50th bird-day plunge previously in estima but recently swapped the 4th way MP Z "sub" with "real" Morel Titanium 104 sub albeit still 10" cos boxed into side rear panel of 2 year old forester xt.

Android HU to usb Helix dsp pro as  main system and added few weeks ago, the digione signature to coaxial Helix dsp pro courtesy of kaki Boring here and tuned up by another kaki Sarong1 here 🙂

Cheers.

Richard

Class A:

POWER:

Power 4 ohms stereoWatt RMS – 11 to 14.4 Volt 100 x 2
Power 2 ohms stereoWatt RMS – 11 to 14.4 Volt 200 x 2
Power in Watts RMS CLASS A – 11 to 14.4 Volt 50 x 2

SENSITIVITY ‘ENTRANCE:

Volts RMS 0.4 V – 5.5 V

DIMENSIONS:

466 x 60 x 255 mm

WEIGHT:

7 Kg

 

MSK1500

POWER:

Power 4 ohms stereoWatt RMS – 11 to 14.4 Volt 200 x 2
Power 2 ohms stereoWatt RMS – 11 to 14.4 Volt 400 x 2
Power 4 ohms monoWatt RMS – 11 to 14.4 Volt 800 x 1
Power 2 ohms monoWatt RMS – 11 to 14.4 volts 1500 x 1

SENSITIVITY ‘ENTRANCE:

Volts RMS 0.5 V – 5 V

DIMENSIONS:

420 x 60 x 255 mm

WEIGHT:

7.4 Kg

Hi Richard

Very nice 4 way Thomas Hoffmann German speakers and the very best German DSP.  

The Ultimo Titanium sounds like a very good upgrade. It took the 2015 EISA best subwoofer of the year award.

I also like the Morel sound and even their low end front compos sound good to me. I think its because their speakers never sound bright or shrill but always have a lot of warmth.

You put together a great system. 👍

[Sarong1]

Always nice to see "revealing" stuff here. Thanks for all the naked pics of some of the great amps here. Equipment matching is key, in home and car audio.

[Sarong1]

23 hours ago, richard_crl032 said:

Hey Sarong1,

Believe all modern or antiqued HUs are digital and never analog .. only digital with "modern" installations is the prevalent use of dsp for processing for active system which means not using analog aka passive crossover.

Guess I am opening another can of worms on active vs passive installation but I am partial to active ones. For me, it has to sound right before sounding good which means almost mandatory use of active installation ...  with all the well known challenges in car enviroment especially the cruel fact that we pay top $ to sit on right side of the concert stage facing the right speakers ..

Time to stop embarassing myself in front of you as my experience and know-hows are primarily from home hifi .. I am only a beneficiary of your generosity .. will let other semi gurus and gurus to comment further.

Cheers.

Richard

 

 

Yes Bro, you are right from physics viewpoint that it has always been digital. I think what most people would prefer, is that of digital implementation to arrive at delivery of analog sound. Seems like a dichotomy but I think you know what I mean.

[Jamesc]

Yeah equipment matching is very important.

If anyone heard a really great sounding system please feel free to share here.

Can be your own or a competition car or just car at the audio ship.

It would be great to know which speakers, amps, head units and dsp match well to get that magical synergy.

Also feel free to share which components don't match each other. That would be interesting too. You can get a top of the line set of speakers and a top of the amp but they just don't sound good together.

Even better if its a great sounding system made up of budget or mid price equipment.

Some budget of mid price components really punch above its price range.

[Jamesc]

One of the nicest mid range systems I have ever heard is made up of the Danish Acoustics Pristinum 6.1 and I think powered by an Audison LRx 2.4.

The tweeters have a sparkle but it wasn't bright and the sound had a delicate sweetness to it.

I love the sound of that system. I think the magic was in that speakers crossover.

Danish Acoustics crossover.

Gladen Zero Pro speakers with super sized crossovers.

Its bigger than the speakers. It almost a waste of the crossovers to go active.

[Jamesc]

Gladen's second best speakers just below the aerospace.

Its only 480 Euros in Germany. Why are we paying so much for our audio stuff here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyxCgjskzIM

 

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Jamesc

[richard_crl032]

18 hours ago, Jamesc said:

Gladen's second best speakers just below the aerospace.

Its only 480 Euros in Germany. Why are we paying so much for our audio stuff here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyxCgjskzIM

 

 

Hi Jamesc,

Worldclass salaries, car prices, apartments etc. aka cost of living as well as standard of living ?

I easily console myself the % spend on overall car ownership cost vs spending on ICE and quite ok leh ... just imagine 1/3 car price and ownership with associated increased % spending on ICE ...  haha !

Life !  Half empty or half full is really your call 🙂

Cheers,

Richard

Edited November 22, 2019 by richard_crl032

[richard_crl032]

20 hours ago, Sarong1 said:

Yes Bro, you are right from physics viewpoint that it has always been digital. I think what most people would prefer, is that of digital implementation to arrive at delivery of analog sound. Seems like a dichotomy but I think you know what I mean.

Hi Sarong1,

Understand but that is the easy part.

Getting there is the difficult part but glad you helped 😍👍🙂

Cheers,

Richard