VES 2018

[DACH]

Someone is screwing with your mind lah. Not true ownership? The profit from the sale into ones bank account is true hard cash man!

 

re: redevelopments. Do you know of anyone who has undergone SERS and not gotten a better new flat? My wife's aunt like to complain about her SERS, but when you press her, she admit that she took the market price compensation and bought private instead. Liar.

 

re: ...can't modify the house without permission. You obviously don't live in private condo because those have loads of renovation restrictions too. It's to stop dangerous, structurally weakening reno work.

 

re: ...can't rent it using airbnb. Private condos will clamp down here too. But one can rent/sublet HDB room and keep the proceeds. One is a minor-landlord, no?

 

re: ...it's a lease from gahmen. But which private landlord allows one to keep the sale profits, rental proceeds, bequeath to kids. One can do anything one wants similar to private. You are getting your hackles up over imagined evil.

 

re: ...you dont have the rights to bargain with them on the prices...

Since when we cannot bargain over resale HDB? Since when citizens do not get subsidies for below-market price BTO? And whatever reno you do you can still bargain with the contractor, right?

 

I get this feeling some who post here are not informed because they do not own HDB and are still living with parents.

Your first paragraph has already tell us something, You buy and sell flats for the sake of profiteering for your own bank accounts.

Not everyone has the same mentality that the house is for making money. They just want a roof under their heads.

Because of people like you, the future generations are paying more for less space because property prices keep on increasing uptrend. In the past I always think that it's ok that HDB prices are pegged to market value. Until one of my foreign friend, tell me this, "Your country new flats looks quite nice, but why is it so expensive despite govt owned? It's not like in Hong Kong."

After reading so many articles and discussions online, there are certainly many questions to be asked, no doubt that the HDB provides good and clean housing.

 

But if HDB is really affordable in the first place, why does every newer generations and older generations find it hard to support one? Why do the prices keep increasing ridiculously generation after generation? What is the actual breakdown costs of building a flat in the recent years? If the HDB flat is public entity, why it has to be pegged to market rates since the land itself is owned by the govt? If the flats are reasonably affordable in the first place, why do people need so much subsidies in the first place? You don't overprice, people generally won't ask for money. Political gimmicks to dull the people minds? Yeah, they give you subsidies, give you $10, take back $100. Seems like a good deal, right? Sure prices are negotiatable, but that's the market for resale market between buyers and sellers, the people who own the lease flat. And I am talking about new flats, not resale ones, unless your purpose of a house is to buy and sell to profit, not for living. And the funny thing is what is anything got to do with renovations? It's a private business engagement with contractors, the price is set between you and the contractor. The government only regulates the business.

 

So what is behind all these absurd housing prices? Controlled by your proclaimed "evil" govt or by unscrupulous profiteers who wants to make quick bucks from housing, depriving the financial capabilities for those who actually just want one for a roof over their heads?

 

I still stand my case that HDB is a lease to you from the govt. It's a lease, not real ownership. Like the examples you give for condos as well, it works the same way, the profits, the renovations, etc. While condo belongs to the private developers, HDB stays the same kind of structure, i.e., it belongs to the HDB, it's a lease to you. You don't own it legally. While the govt has no good reasons to take it back (create more outrage instead), they have the legal rights to take it back.

And if they take it back for redevelopments, not all are happy with the further and smaller new flats.

 

I shall rest my case here since someone has red flag deviation from the topic.

[Googoo]

You do realize that even freehold private property are subject to eminent domain laws?

 

And even the so called bastion of the free world, USA, has such laws?

 

 

i do of course.. but owning a landed freehold private property at least in the eyes of the laws u OWN it..

 

whether the gahment uses the power of eminent domain is another thing..

 

but if we look at it from a zen point of view, u own nothing as u cannot bring with u when u die... hahaha

 

 

btw we are OUT OF TOPIC!!! haha..

Edited March 17, 2017 by Googoo

[DACH]

Again not sure where did you read "free". End user need to pay to use the charging station. The equipments and the electricity is not free.

 

Seems like you don't really understand the concept of "encouraging" people who can afford car/cars to go Electric. Untested tech? It's already a proven technology and these technology work perfectly in Singapore. They only need to improve the tech gradually.

 

This technology will be adapted in Singapore soon or later. Will depend on the government policy to encourage car buyer.

Forget the free part.

First start ups needs monetary investments. Period.

How to build more electrical charging ports for electric cars? Some buildings like shopping malls have installed them.

 

Maybe the govt can have joint Ventures with petrol companies to set up electric charging ports in their kiosks. Or work with Singapore Power and HDB to set up these ports in HDB carparks. Charging charges are collected to pay back these investments. The surplus money collected can be invested further for other green fuel technologies like hydrogen.

If the govt really wants to promote green cars, it has to take the first step.

[Ahgong]

All these means cost.

Does the people want to foot the bill in the first place?

People would prefer their own transport and don't mind spending on it, since they have something for themselves in different needs to come.

 

yes. it means cost. which will also mean a lot of planning is required to build them as well.

HDB estate planning didn't happen over night either. a lot of kampongs have to be resettled prior to the landscape that we see today.

people ARE footing the bill in the form of taxes. that is why there is a budget debate every year.

if the government (regardless of which party is at the helm) lays out the plans to go green, it would be apparent when they are planning the budget.

 

the fact that the budgets (current and past few ones) not only have minimal plans to go green, it keeps on piling on the taxes in the name of green. taxes collected liow, if spend on green initiatives (aka the infrastructure i mentioned in my other posts), then yes, it makes sense.

now is just tax tax tax, no clear direction of how to go green other than telling people you-pollute-you-pay.

that is where i am coming from.

people can still get their own transport. but to hear g-officials spouting green-this-green-that, but no show of how they are gonna do it, it is just bad planning IMHO. 

Are you the only one in singapore who refuse to use the aircon buses, hire grab/uber, use electric bicycle/scooter, hail taxi, buy used-car, renew COE? Even MRT is also aircon, empty during off-peak and every 6 mins.

 

No alternatives?

 

Or maybe we should admit that one is lusting after the amg merc e-class only. So it's a case of goal post move away but not enough skill or talent to make more money.

 

... to add on, i am using a used car BTW.

with the new emssions penalties for not being in the green category, i really wonder how much more i have to pay just to provide convenience to my family.

thus the gripes.

[DACH]

yes. it means cost. which will also mean a lot of planning is required to build them as well.

HDB estate planning didn't happen over night either. a lot of kampongs have to be resettled prior to the landscape that we see today.

people ARE footing the bill in the form of taxes. that is why there is a budget debate every year.

if the government (regardless of which party is at the helm) lays out the plans to go green, it would be apparent when they are planning the budget.

 

the fact that the budgets (current and past few ones) not only have minimal plans to go green, it keeps on piling on the taxes in the name of green. taxes collected liow, if spend on green initiatives (aka the infrastructure i mentioned in my other posts), then yes, it makes sense.

now is just tax tax tax, no clear direction of how to go green other than telling people you-pollute-you-pay.

that is where i am coming from.

people can still get their own transport. but to hear g-officials spouting green-this-green-that, but no show of how they are gonna do it, it is just bad planning IMHO.

Green is just another catch phase to tax more from the people and enrich the elites.

 

Global warming has been highlighted since the 1960s. Why no one start taking action then? Else now cars are already running on clean fuels, whether it's electric, hydrogen, water, ethanol, etc and power stations are run by thorium, sea tidal, etc.

 

I understand your frustrations. It's unfair to pass down the costs of being green to the consumers, if the govt hasn't done much in the investments for the related infrastructures in the first place. Please refer my above post for the suggestions to build electric charging ports in the country.

[Ahgong]

Green is just another catch phase to tax more from the people and enrich the elites.

 

Global warming has been highlighted since the 1960s. Why no one start taking action then? Else now cars are already running on clean fuels, whether it's electric, hydrogen, water, ethanol, etc and power stations are run by thorium, sea tidal, etc.

 

I understand your frustrations. It's unfair to pass down the costs of being green to the consumers, if the govt hasn't done much in the investments for the related infrastructures in the first place. Please refer my above post for the suggestions to build electric charging ports in the country.

 

ha ha ha ha... this is a forum lah.

akin to last time where ah peks gather around over kopi to share gripes.

yeah, you have quite a few good suggestions. it is a pity that the people-who-matters are not in this forum to pick up on those ideas and translate them to something tangible that all citizens can enjoy.

[Mustank]

[Ahgong]

So you admit you have private transportation already.

 

Why are we so 'worried' and angry for a future that is not written yet. The car dealers are now working out how to detune engines and lower OMV to keep prices within affordable brackets. Keep cool and just observe what does happen. Then choose from alternatives.

 

Do you really force your oldies to go gardens by the bay every weekend? And if you know it gets too crowded and jammed in the car park there, isn't it silly to keep insisting to go? Then get angry and blame gahmen?

 

Why can't we adapt to new lifestyle and living patterns to overcome such aggravations?

 

For example, if VES increases your choice of new car, what is stopping you from getting the previous generation used car? Or get a used car and tune up the power? Or if you really want to save the environment, then the car will attract a subsidy anyway. So how sincere or hypocrites are we?

 

Most of the time we are just put off by the extra work required to do the research etc. We want 'convenience'.

 

Don't forget that the VES also has rebates for the least polluting cars. It is not only about penalties.

 

The issue is how many of us will be hypocrites and how many dealers truly have the depth of technology to adapt faster to these 21st century conditions and regulations.

 

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... every argument will always have a counter.

you win. you win! moving on.

cos you dun seem to be able to see from my point of view.

[Aaronlkl]

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... every argument will always have a counter.

you win. you win! moving on.

cos you dun seem to be able to see from my point of view.

 

Sar-por-ters are always Sar-por-ters

 

Some ppl just dun see the 'root cause' as the root cause of all problems!

 

Tio slapped left right centre,

 

they will tell u 打是疼，骂是爱   [laugh]  

Edited March 17, 2017 by Aaronlkl

[DACH]

Just like car prices, things go up because our salaries have gone up as well. Starting pay for grads has more than doubled since 90s.

 

We have to accept that just like cars post-VES, there will be homes for every budget. The key is "budget", grit and creativity to overcome life's challenges.

 

I believe that we become bitter and grumble because we are not used to being challenged. A new generation thinks that automatically prices will never rise and good things will always be low cost, just because we shout louder, stamp our feet and demand it.

You doesn’t seems to understand the rationale behind this discussion of the increase in prices in HDB flats.

If they are priced upwards because of inflation, then fine. As I have said earlier, lack of information of the building costs and pegging prices with the market when the govt owns the land and HDB flats being a public entity, the increased costs don't justify the affordability of a govt provided facility.

HDB flats can increased by tens of thousands decade after decade, but the salaries only increase by a thousand after a decade. Challenges are healthy if catch ups are realistic. If people want to make quick bucks by buying and selling properties and inflate the property prices by millions, they better reflect their selfish thinking which will affect the people down the road.

[Ahgong]

You doesn’t seems to understand the rationale behind this discussion of the increase in prices in HDB flats.

If they are priced upwards because of inflation, then fine. As I have said earlier, lack of information of the building costs and pegging prices with the market when the govt owns the land and HDB flats being a public entity, the increased costs don't justify the affordability of a govt provided facility.

HDB flats can increased by tens of thousands decade after decade, but the salaries only increase by a thousand after a decade. Challenges are healthy if catch ups are realistic. If people want to make quick bucks by buying and selling properties and inflate the property prices by millions, they better reflect their selfish thinking which will affect the people down the road.

 

bro, agree to disagree bah. 

the "debate" is just going round in circles.

[Ahgong]

Sar-por-ters are always Sar-por-ters

 

Some ppl just dun see the 'root cause' as the root cause of all problems!

 

Tio slapped left right centre,

 

they will tell u 打是疼，骂是爱   [laugh]  

 

ran out of points liow, cannot praise you anymore today.

 looking at the last few pages where i was actively replying, i guess i am being loved many many eh? 

[DACH]

Just as the hongkonger laugh at our ERP, they are secretly envious of our HDB. Govt flats in HK are rented to their citizens, not sold. Full of restrictions.

 

Plse change your thinking about 'govt owned' HDB because you are ignoring the multitudes of oldies who have funded their retirement from better prices or renting out their rooms. Imagine if HDB treat us as true tenants. We pay for decades with nothing to call our own, to pass to kids.

 

I think we have to be honest to ourselves and admit that if one is ignorant about certain matters, and have not buy or sell HDB before, do not repeat falsehoods and check the facts.

If you insist you are right, then I have nothing much to say.

The fact is HDB flats are a lease from the govt to the people.

 

"Public housing in Singapore is managed by the Housing and Development Board (HDB) under temporary leaseholds. HDB flats in Singapore are sold on a 99 year lease agreement."

 

"A leasehold estate is an ownership of a temporary right to hold property in which a lessee holds rights of real property by some form of title from a lessor. Although a lessee does hold rights to real property, a leasehold estate is typically considered personal property.

 

Leasehold Estates are lease or rental interests and do not constitute legal ownership of real property."

 

The govt can give whatever perks they can for the different needs for different people. Ultimately the ownership is still under the govt, not the lessee.

[DACH]

Wages also rise, if one develops the increased skills or talents.

 

Why must get bitter and resentful of those who are clever or fast enough to make a profit? Every citizen only allowed one BTO and one resale anyway.

 

And it is the progress of the economy and the trust of the international companies in singapore that is why landed homes in bukit timah, river valley are multi millions. (But the folks who can buy in those areas are likely exceptional in skills or talent too, right? That is why they can earn so much.)

 

Maybe the really issue is that we are afraid that we lack the skills and talent to earn more / be paid more.

You are really living in your self denial.

If you think comparing apples to oranges makes your argument looks good, then continue to live in your self denial.

[DACH]

ha ha ha ha... this is a forum lah.

akin to last time where ah peks gather around over kopi to share gripes.

yeah, you have quite a few good suggestions. it is a pity that the people-who-matters are not in this forum to pick up on those ideas and translate them to something tangible that all citizens can enjoy.

I do think that the people who matters may read this forum sometimes although they do not participate.

I only hope they can get it in action on these suggestions amid pages of unhappiness.

[Kyrios]

Hmmm....divisive.... this forum is.... [yoda]

[therock]

We are all different people and we don't always have the same idea.

The mismatch between demand and supply of COEs, their high price and the taxation simply adds fuel to the fire.

 

In an ideal world, we have the cars, homes and jobs we want, but in reality, some will have it, some won't.

 

At least I can safely say, all of us here in this forum can have the Mee Pok they want, when they want.

 

If you can't and wanna have that or kopi together, it's Saturday am again and ABC market time, come along and I buy for you a good mee pok and kopi, and restore sanity to a mad world 

[Angcheek]

 

 

 

Not because of H1N5 bird flu ??