A New Chapter - Skoda Singapore

[Theoldjaffa]

Great news of Skoda coming back to the motoring scene in Singapore, we deserve good cars especially when we pay so much for cars.

 

Something that I find amusing, when I see some people said about appealing to upgraders. What exactly the upgraders upgrade to? From Asian mass-market brands to...... EU mass-market brands? Where is the upgrade?

 

Skoda, VW, Peugeot, Opel (and the brother Vauxhall), Citroen, Renault and Seat are all mass-market brands in their home market (EU) and most markets elsewhere. So they are built to appeal to the same target audience more or less. Some of these brands even share the same factory, supply chain, platforms etc. These brands differentiates with certain value propositions such as clever and pragmatic engineering for Skoda. But in the end, the brand premium are not that different across these brands, compared to upmarket brands like BMW, MB, Audi. Or Renault versus Dacia, which is a clearly a lower-end brand of Renault.

 

That said, in today's term, Skoda and VW are probably equivalent in brand premium (not in Singapore context), it is down to the features, design, service support on offer for each car. It is not logical to expect significant lower price for Skoda vs the equivalent VW. What's the premium of VW anyway, the name itself already said it all, People's Car?

 

Also, comparing to Asian makes, I don't think there is a big difference between these brands to mass market brands like Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc. There is no SIGNIFICANT brand premium difference in other markets, even in EU itself, or the US.

 

In Singapore, the prices are higher for European mass-market brands because (1) the Euro ex-rate is increasing for the past 6 months, and any increase in OMV is magnified by the ARF calculations, (2) historically these EU brands are just feeding on the perceptions of locals that anything with European names are more superior than Asian names,or in general, anything that is more expensive is premium.

 

I still remember 12 years ago, in one of my marketing class in NUS, when the prof asked about what are the premium brands for cars, one lady from India proudly said Skoda, without any hesitation. The locals in the class were laughing. Apparently, Skoda is considered a premium brand in Indian market because the cars more expensive than the Suzukis.

 

Having said that, it is exciting time to see Skoda coming back to Singapore. The Kodiaq is such a nice car, and adequately specced than its competitors. Hope to see more of them on the road!

Speak in local context la bro.

 

It is generally accepted that an upgrade is

Chinese to Korean

Korean to Japanese

Japanese to Conti

 

So the Skoda at their price range is meant to be an upgrade over the Japanese and the build quality, feel, performance is an upgrade.

 

Of course there will be differing viewpoints but to view the brand position from a global perspective and apply it in a localised view is a bit out of point.

 

Lastly, I agree Skoda is a good car.

[jjandyy]

Speak in local context la bro.

 

It is generally accepted that an upgrade is

Chinese to Korean

Korean to Japanese

Japanese to Conti

 

So the Skoda at their price range is meant to be an upgrade over the Japanese and the build quality, feel, performance is an upgrade.

 

Of course there will be differing viewpoints but to view the brand position from a global perspective and apply it in a localised view is a bit out of point.

 

Lastly, I agree Skoda is a good car.

Yes, I agree human will make illusions just to justify the thoughts/beliefs. Lol.. I am guilty of that as well sometimes.

 

Build quality and performance upgrade when you go from Japanese to Conti in mass market segment? That’s a big illusion. A lot of downgraders in Europe who go from their local brands to Japanese and Koreans for better build quality and performance.

[Theoldjaffa]

Yes, I agree human will make illusions just to justify the thoughts/beliefs. Lol.. I am guilty of that as well sometimes.

 

Build quality and performance upgrade when you go from Japanese to Conti in mass market segment? Thatâs a big illusion. A lot of downgraders in Europe who go from their local brands to Japanese and Koreans for better build quality and performance.

Again you cite examples from Europe, where culture, thought process and values differ from SG's context which is not really relevant.

 

I shall stop here

[Axeman24]

Was at the Skoda showroom just now and tested the Kodiaq, overall it’s has nice feature and with a the price of $167K with 1 bid guaranteed or 6 bid non guaranteed ( less 1.5k or 2k can’t remember). Test drive the Kodiaq and it’s quite smooth and the gear change is also good. However, when I try to floor the gas pedal there is a delay in response, other that that normal day to day driving it’s ok. Feature wise both front seats have electric plus memory, the head unit is 9 inch screen and has Apple ply and android play. Wireless charging is included but I understand from the SE that the 1.4 model will not have. Auto tailgate, rear aircon, sunroof and all auto windows comes as standard. The car on the exterior wise, I have to say it’s not really outstanding but to me it’s ok. The choice of colours is also limited to 3 colours at the moment ( black, white and silver) not sure will they add more colours in the future. Leather is only black. Warranty is 5 years or 100k and free servicing is 3 years or 45k. According to the SE the warranty period covers labour charge. I thought normally during warranty it should be that way isn’t it? Correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, it’s a nice car with ample leg room, but the third roll you can forget about it, only suitable for very small built people. I forgotten to mention is that there is a rechargeable detachable led torch light in the boot, you can remove it use it to for other areas of the car. Once you are done just simply attached it back to the slot and it will be charge when you start the car. Lastly, umbrella s are included which is inserted at the driver’s and passenger’s door. Of course don’t expect the rolls Royce type of umbrella

Edited March 24, 2018 by Axeman24

[Gz0707]

I must be the guilty party here, cos I used the word "upgrader" in a few posts. Didn't know we would be getting a lesson in marketing here.  anyway, since I took my marketing class over 20 years ago in a non-NUS class, let me try my hand at explaining the so called "conti-upgrade" faux syndrome here.  

 

- VW a mass Toyota-like brand in EU is seen as an upgrade for Jap-Korean car owners and its pricing position is positioned as such. If not, why would you find a MPV priced at 140k Touran vs a 102k Carens? The professional marketeers here must be deceitful and misleading consumers.  and yet consumers follow the brand positioning?  

- all conti brands, the likes of Opel, Renault, Citroen and Peugeot are also see as moving upwards from mass value brands even though you can find a Honda CRV price point higher than a conti one in recent times.  I don't have numbers on price points now, but looking at some sales nos tell a story.  Budget Conti cars in total sold a grand total of, 6,136 cars in 2017 or 16.8% These include 7 conti brands from Pug to Ford.  i counted 9 Jap/Korea brands having sold 63,483 cars or 60% in 2017. So I can't really see where the conti get to position themselves as mass brands if they are not in a position to. 

 

That said, I'm still a fan of Skoda since the 90s, where it was sold in the 80k/90k price point. I know its a Czech car, I know its a taxi in home country. I even know its a downgrade from a VW but hey, if I can afford a L&K Superb, I would be smiling ear to ear. 

 

and that point about Skoda in India?  I fully agree with the Indian student.  If consumer can upgrade from a Tata or what local brand to exotic niche brand like Skoda with premium pricing, that would be seen as upgrade in buying capability, even if you accept it or not. 

 

[Theoldjaffa]

Again you cite examples from Europe, where culture, thought process and values differ from SG's context which is not really relevant.

 

I shall stop here

Again a mysterious anonymous fella who is not that anonymous. Your comment fits your character to a T.

 

It's ok, I don't hold it against you for not having balls. It's sad enough for u already lah

[jjandyy]

I must be the guilty party here, cos I used the word "upgrader" in a few posts. Didn't know we would be getting a lesson in marketing here.  anyway, since I took my marketing class over 20 years ago in a non-NUS class, let me try my hand at explaining the so called "conti-upgrade" faux syndrome here.  

 

- VW a mass Toyota-like brand in EU is seen as an upgrade for Jap-Korean car owners and its pricing position is positioned as such. If not, why would you find a MPV priced at 140k Touran vs a 102k Carens? The professional marketeers here must be deceitful and misleading consumers.  and yet consumers follow the brand positioning?  

- all conti brands, the likes of Opel, Renault, Citroen and Peugeot are also see as moving upwards from mass value brands even though you can find a Honda CRV price point higher than a conti one in recent times.  I don't have numbers on price points now, but looking at some sales nos tell a story.  Budget Conti cars in total sold a grand total of, 6,136 cars in 2017 or 16.8% These include 7 conti brands from Pug to Ford.  i counted 9 Jap/Korea brands having sold 63,483 cars or 60% in 2017. So I can't really see where the conti get to position themselves as mass brands if they are not in a position to. 

 

That said, I'm still a fan of Skoda since the 90s, where it was sold in the 80k/90k price point. I know its a Czech car, I know its a taxi in home country. I even know its a downgrade from a VW but hey, if I can afford a L&K Superb, I would be smiling ear to ear. 

 

and that point about Skoda in India?  I fully agree with the Indian student.  If consumer can upgrade from a Tata or what local brand to exotic niche brand like Skoda with premium pricing, that would be seen as upgrade in buying capability, even if you accept it or not. 

 

Cannot exactly agree to your arguments.

 

The price difference between an EU-made and Asian-made mass-market cars in Singapore context are more than marketeers' success, rather it is largely also due to difference in currency ex-rate of Euro to SGD, and JPY/KRW to SGD, and some extent, car tax structures. Some bros here actually made comparison of the gross margin comparison of Skoda Kodiaq and Superb to comparable Asian and Korean cars. The gross margins were comparable. That means there are no brand premium attached to the Skoda brand, which means the new Skodas are indeed a great bargain!

 

How did the conclusion that conti brands like Opel, Renault, Citroen and Peugeots moving upwards from mass value brands was drawn? Price points? Then see above point. The buyers are merely paying for higher ex-rates and lower economics of scale to certain extent. With lower volumes, more fixed costs needs to be assigned to each car sold by these brands. Also, lower volume and higher price does not equal to moving upwards, it could be that they are not as popular as the rest.

 

I just want to point out that to become a premium brand, the brand needs to behave like one, that means from how engineering and design is done, material selections, build quality, performance etc etc. Just because the price is higher (due to economic factors) does not make a product premium......

 

Don't get me wrong, I am excited that Skoda is back, because the products are good. But just to bring the discussion of the 'premiumness or lack of it' out, so that potential buyers can see the true value of the cars, which is fantastic compared to many other conti brands.

[Theoldjaffa]

Cannot exactly agree to your arguments.

 

The price difference between an EU-made and Asian-made mass-market cars in Singapore context are more than marketeers' success, rather it is largely also due to difference in currency ex-rate of Euro to SGD, and JPY/KRW to SGD, and some extent, car tax structures. Some bros here actually made comparison of the gross margin comparison of Skoda Kodiaq and Superb to comparable Asian and Korean cars. The gross margins were comparable. That means there are no brand premium attached to the Skoda brand, which means the new Skodas are indeed a great bargain!

 

How did the conclusion that conti brands like Opel, Renault, Citroen and Peugeots moving upwards from mass value brands was drawn? Price points? Then see above point. The buyers are merely paying for higher ex-rates and lower economics of scale to certain extent. With lower volumes, more fixed costs needs to be assigned to each car sold by these brands. Also, lower volume and higher price does not equal to moving upwards, it could be that they are not as popular as the rest.

 

I just want to point out that to become a premium brand, the brand needs to behave like one, that means from how engineering and design is done, material selections, build quality, performance etc etc. Just because the price is higher (due to economic factors) does not make a product premium......

 

Don't get me wrong, I am excited that Skoda is back, because the products are good. But just to bring the discussion of the 'premiumness or lack of it' out, so that potential buyers can see the true value of the cars, which is fantastic compared to many other conti brands.

Again it's abit misplaced to equate upgrade as moving to a premium brand.

 

An upgrade is a very broad statement as it depends on each individual criteria.

 

Whether Skoda or other entry contis, as a brand, and their journey towards becoming one, and only then qualify them as a "proper upgrade" only if they have become a premium brand, doesn't really matter in what constitutes an upgrade.

 

But yes I generally agree with your points.

 

To illustrate:

From a Toyota Altis to a Skoda Octavia. It's generally an upgrade, as the Octy is faster, has better build quality, newer technology apart from the obvious price bump which I agree with you that it shouldn't be a factor.

[Sdf4786k]

I must be the guilty party here, cos I used the word "upgrader" in a few posts. Didn't know we would be getting a lesson in marketing here. anyway, since I took my marketing class over 20 years ago in a non-NUS class, let me try my hand at explaining the so called "conti-upgrade" faux syndrome here.

 

- VW a mass Toyota-like brand in EU is seen as an upgrade for Jap-Korean car owners and its pricing position is positioned as such. If not, why would you find a MPV priced at 140k Touran vs a 102k Carens? The professional marketeers here must be deceitful and misleading consumers. and yet consumers follow the brand positioning?

- all conti brands, the likes of Opel, Renault, Citroen and Peugeot are also see as moving upwards from mass value brands even though you can find a Honda CRV price point higher than a conti one in recent times. I don't have numbers on price points now, but looking at some sales nos tell a story. Budget Conti cars in total sold a grand total of, 6,136 cars in 2017 or 16.8% These include 7 conti brands from Pug to Ford. i counted 9 Jap/Korea brands having sold 63,483 cars or 60% in 2017. So I can't really see where the conti get to position themselves as mass brands if they are not in a position to.

 

That said, I'm still a fan of Skoda since the 90s, where it was sold in the 80k/90k price point. I know its a Czech car, I know its a taxi in home country. I even know its a downgrade from a VW but hey, if I can afford a L&K Superb, I would be smiling ear to ear.

 

and that point about Skoda in India? I fully agree with the Indian student. If consumer can upgrade from a Tata or what local brand to exotic niche brand like Skoda with premium pricing, that would be seen as upgrade in buying capability, even if you accept it or not.

If u pay a premium from a smaller amount to a larger amount, you probably right that you are paying more.

 

But we need to clearly define our opinion of upgrade. For me, same airline. I pay economy class, they bump me to biz or first class, I consider upgrade.

 

So taken everything into consideration. If I pay for a skoda at a price of a golf 1.0 or a civic 1.5 but get a better specs with higher quality and more tech toys. Would that not be consider an upgrade¿

 

But if I buy an audi a3 1.0 but in reality paying less I can get a Hyundai 1.4 turbo cat B with more options am I getting a downgrade because of the badge¿

 

You can always buy more than 100 casio gshock for the price of a Rolex. But would you rather have 100 gshock or have a Rolex ?

[jjandyy]

Again it's abit misplaced to equate upgrade as moving to a premium brand.

 

An upgrade is a very broad statement as it depends on each individual criteria.

 

Whether Skoda or other entry contis, as a brand, and their journey towards becoming one, and only then qualify them as a "proper upgrade" only if they have become a premium brand, doesn't really matter in what constitutes an upgrade.

 

But yes I generally agree with your points.

 

To illustrate:

From a Toyota Altis to a Skoda Octavia. It's generally an upgrade, as the Octy is faster, has better build quality, newer technology apart from the obvious price bump which I agree with you that it shouldn't be a factor.

 

In all respect, I think from Altis to Octavia is merely choosing a different product within the same mass market segment. Some people choose Toyota for reliability, familiarity, fuel efficiency over Octavia which offer better build, faster, newer technology. It is probably the same for some French to buy French brands due to nationalistic sentiment, familiarity over a Japanese brand. There are many choices in the mass-market segments anyway.

 

Someone talk about different classes in airplanes, which I think is relevant in this context. For example, from SQ economy class to United or Lufthansa economy class, is that a downgrade, upgrade or just the same? As far as I know, SQ economy class seats generally have better leg space, better entertainment, and better service. I can also cite SQ business class to Air France or Cathay Pacific business class. Personally I have not heard people say 'I upgraded from United/Lufthansa/CP/JAL business class to SQ business class'.

 

 

For me, real upgrade is from economy class to premium economy, from business class to first class, etc, on international/intercontinental routes. The difference should be significant enough. Otherwise, it is just choosing a different product within the same segment.

 

Except for domestic flights within EU where I don't really see a difference between the economy and business class...

[Gz0707]

If u pay a premium from a smaller amount to a larger amount, you probably right that you are paying more.

 

But we need to clearly define our opinion of upgrade. For me, same airline. I pay economy class, they bump me to biz or first class, I consider upgrade.

 

So taken everything into consideration. If I pay for a skoda at a price of a golf 1.0 or a civic 1.5 but get a better specs with higher quality and more tech toys. Would that not be consider an upgrade¿

 

But if I buy an audi a3 1.0 but in reality paying less I can get a Hyundai 1.4 turbo cat B with more options am I getting a downgrade because of the badge¿

 

You can always buy more than 100 casio gshock for the price of a Rolex. But would you rather have 100 gshock or have a Rolex ?

In Asia, it's all about brand perception. Is a Mark X with RWD better than a luxury marque without? There's a lot brand perception that does not necessarily translate strictly into number and acceptance. If it does, based on higher import costs, they should not be here and occupy a less than satisfactory 20% market share, even with 7 brands combined. Every market has its own unique set of buying behaviour and truth is different markets has the same brand position differently. Our very own Tiger beer is mass market brand here but a premium brand in other countries and position as exotic far east beer in USA. Let's not talk about watches here, it's an unending story about made in China movements marketed by rules to qualify for made in Swiss labels. Enough off topic. Let's go back to skoda.

[Othello]

To illustrate:

From a Toyota Altis to a Skoda Octavia. It's generally an upgrade, as the Octy is faster, has better build quality, newer technology apart from the obvious price bump which I agree with you that it shouldn't be a factor.

 

bro, let me use this as an example. 

 

In Aug 2009, the prices are as follows (courtesy of ------) hahaha, din know mcf also got restrict competitors name, like SBF. Its one-sh**t by the way

 

Skoda Octavia A5 - $68,000

Toyota Altis - $70,488

 

Being an ex-skoda owner, the bias is definitely there. But what about the facts ??? 

 

Fact is --> in 2009

 

1. The Skoda is a much safer car. Even then, it already had a lot of safety features which most Asian makes lack

2. The Skoda is a better built car. Mind you, this is the one with the FSI engine. Very dependable improved OLD engine. 4 spd gearbox (iirc, the A5 had a 5spd GB) nothing to shout about, but bulletproof and guess what? My friend who bought the car (old 4 spd GB) from me clocked 14km/l from Bedok/Tuas daily. 

3. The Skoda handles WAAAY better

 

So many more points I can continue, but oh well 

 

BUT, where is the upgrade ?? 

 

It's simple, most people still cannot see past the Skoda brand then, and neither will they NOW ! People say they want lower prices so can compare and choose. When presented with a lower price, they still avoided Skoda 

 

I already gave up so long ago. I was very very happy with my skoda( so did my wife) and I really hope to own another one in future

Edited March 24, 2018 by Othello

[Theoldjaffa]

In all respect, I think from Altis to Octavia is merely choosing a different product within the same mass market segment. Some people choose Toyota for reliability, familiarity, fuel efficiency over Octavia which offer better build, faster, newer technology. It is probably the same for some French to buy French brands due to nationalistic sentiment, familiarity over a Japanese brand. There are many choices in the mass-market segments anyway.

 

Someone talk about different classes in airplanes, which I think is relevant in this context. For example, from SQ economy class to United or Lufthansa economy class, is that a downgrade, upgrade or just the same? As far as I know, SQ economy class seats generally have better leg space, better entertainment, and better service. I can also cite SQ business class to Air France or Cathay Pacific business class. Personally I have not heard people say 'I upgraded from United/Lufthansa/CP/JAL business class to SQ business class'.

 

 

For me, real upgrade is from economy class to premium economy, from business class to first class, etc, on international/intercontinental routes. The difference should be significant enough. Otherwise, it is just choosing a different product within the same segment.

 

Except for domestic flights within EU where I don't really see a difference between the economy and business class...

Thats why I said An upgrade is a very broad statement as it depends on each individual criteria.

 

Anyway, I think we are on different wavelengths on what we each is talking about so let's move on ✌️

[Othello]

Thats why I said An upgrade is a very broad statement as it depends on each individual criteria.

 

Anyway, I think we are on different wavelengths on what we each is talking about so let's move on ✌️

 

so how? superb or Veloce or GT ?     

[Gz0707]

Staying on topic ... these models are indicated on the brochures and also on SG carmart, prices POA for now

 

Current model - Kodiaq 2.0 TSI (4X4) - $167,900

POA - Kodiaq - 1.4 TSI 4X2 Ambition Plus (A)

 

Current model - Superb 2.0 TSI (L&K) - $159,900

POA - Superb - 2.0 TSI Ambition (A) and Ambition Plus (A)

 

Hope to see the pricing soon 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2018 by Gz0707

[Lotr]

Staying on topic ... these models are indicated on the brochures and also on SG carmart, prices POA for now

 

Current model - Kodiaq 2.0 TSI (4X4) - $167,900

POA - Kodiaq - 1.4 TSI 4X2 Ambition Plus (A)

 

 

Current model - Superb 2.0 TSI (L&K) - $159,900

POA - Superb - 2.0 TSI Ambition (A) and Ambition Plus (A)

 

Hope to see the pricing soon

My salesperson said the superb ambition plus is 150k

[Theoldjaffa]

so how? superb or Veloce or GT ?

Need to go and see the Superb first. If only the performance can be 5.x seconds in century Sprint but I know the product's positioning in the group won't allow it so.

[Fcw75]

Need to go and see the Superb first. If only the performance can be 5.x seconds in century Sprint but I know the product's positioning in the group won't allow it so. ð

There’s always MTM.