Sabian Turbocharged March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 If you're a line mgr, how do you feel about the bell curve and having to shoehorn the way you rate your team to fit the distribution? Is it realistic to expect the same outcome for each department regardless of their differences? ↡ Advertisement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesc Hypersonic March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 Of course not fair. If your dept work harder than another your top performer will get same bonus at theirs. So best is to do less work than the other dept and enjoy the same bonus. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enye Hypersonic March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 if it is company policy, like or don't like also must do luckily i am not a line manager.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philipkee Twincharged March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 If you're a line mgr, how do you feel about the bell curve and having to shoehorn the way you rate your team to fit the distribution? Is it realistic to expect the same outcome for each department regardless of their differences? To be extremely fair even if the department had only three people you CAN put one as very good, one as average and one can be better. The problem is when you know the difference between can be better and average means the difference between having a bonus or not, pay rise or not or even promotion or not (nursing wise) it gets very tricky. As a manager before I felt it was against my conscience cos while I knew a certain staff could do better, she was not so bad that bonus should be withheld, promotion prospect for following year withheld (spelt out already) so I had difficulty in doing the appraisal knowing the cost of it to the staff. So to answer your question directly, yes it is realistic in an objective assessment but when it can literally mean livelihood of people it becomes tricky and unfair to force managers to do so. An example. Three people have exact same output at work. A comes early all the time, B exactly on time all the time, while C is always exactly on time with the occasional lateness of a few minutes. Objectively A is best and C is worst. Any manager will say that in an assessment. But if saying C is worst could mean that C would be penalised with no promotion no increment no bonus and a black mark in record, I would rather say A B & C are the same than to follow a bell curve. Two cents. Was a manager once. Quitted eventually. Now back to line staff. Rather be line staff than face this. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galantspeedz Turbocharged March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 (edited) Why is A best just because A come early It could be because going to work with spouse, sending spouse, or spouse send A, etc If coming to work earlier but still same output as B and C then doesn't that means A is less efficient? I always thought performance is more on output rather than come in early, stay back late or don't go out for lunch @Sabian First and foremost does your company already pre decide the total bonus amount for a department? If yes, then bell curve or not make no difference... Up to you to decide their bonus mah Edited March 26, 2017 by Galantspeedz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hosaybo 6th Gear March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 If only all output is so easily quantifiable. Alot of time, is about visibility, relation, EQ that gets u a better grade comes assessment. Whatever put on appraisal form all for show only. If sales job, very easy, number speaks for itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mnns 4th Gear March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 If you're a line mgr, how do you feel about the bell curve and having to shoehorn the way you rate your team to fit the distribution? Is it realistic to expect the same outcome for each department regardless of their differences? I just joined a new coy and had to face this bell curve distribution for the first time after many years. My previous coy had done away with it ages ago. First thing I told my boss was, this is not realistic if you have a high performing team (not saying I have 1 now, but if the coy always talk about having the best people, walk the talk). Like it or not I had to apply certain criteria to the team and push some down to the lower bands even though in my opinion they didn't deserve to be there. Not realistic to expect same outcome for each department because we have some departments that's constantly under performing And most sucky thing? If you are in the lower band you kiss promotion goodbye for a period of time, even if you over perform subsequently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throttle2 Supersonic March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 Wah, very stress. I jobless, read already also stress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustank Hypersonic March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 This is too chim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mersaylee Hypersonic March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 Result speaks volume especially quantifiable. Long hours not necessarily mean higher productivity. The Japanese used to work long hours to make up for the inefficiency because of bureaucratic organisation structure. Fairness is very much like rationality - often sought after but never found. Any Libra who strives... also can't strike a balance in terms of fairness. Officers, section leaders and men - avoid the middle unless the reward is lucrative enough to be sandwiched. To TS, just do what your conscious dictates and deal with the outcome individually as it comes and hope that it won't. Remember though, you are also a salaried man. Unless the boss thinks he or she is perfect, cannot expect the same from you. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuelsaver Supercharged March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 Why is A best just because A come early It could be because going to work with spouse, sending spouse, or spouse send A, etc If coming to work earlier but still same output as B and C then doesn't that means A is less efficient? I always thought performance is more on output rather than come in early, stay back late or don't go out for lunch @Sabian First and foremost does your company already pre decide the total bonus amount for a department? If yes, then bell curve or not make no difference... Up to you to decide their bonus mah that y it oso tricky depending how superior look at it - sup A - early come late go = inefficient / poor planning; always on the spot reach / leave = efficient / organized / able to juggle work-life balance sup B - ditto = committed / not calculative / willing to go extra mile; ditto = calculative / not committed / minimum effort smthg like damned if do / damned if don't.. bell curve is practical but those at both ends of curve will suffer in terms of job prospect / remuneration.. it's just like in school if everyone is top 10, then the 11th is lousy, wc in this sense i think not quite fair.. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo72 6th Gear March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 If you're a line mgr, how do you feel about the bell curve and having to shoehorn the way you rate your team to fit the distribution? Is it realistic to expect the same outcome for each department regardless of their differences? If your company is practising "Bell curve" for rating the employees, you can start looking for a better job. Chances is that sooner or later, those people under you will jump ship for a better prospect. This is especially true for those employees who work at the back end (trying to rush out all the things to ensure can meet shipment date), they'll feel very frustrated that they didn't get the pay rise or get peanuts increment due to the "Bell Curve". The most they'll bear it 2 to 3 years and start looking elsewhere for jobs. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happily1986 5th Gear March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 (edited) If you're a line mgr, how do you feel about the bell curve and having to shoehorn the way you rate your team to fit the distribution? How you and i feel about the policy does not matter, it is the system you are talking about. Like it or not, it will persist till someone or some people from middle management got the guts to voice out this concern to upper management. Or unless the system gets a shock like from exceedingly appalling turnover rates e.g. in excess of 25%. Is it realistic to expect the same outcome for each department regardless of their differences? It is not realistic. Especially in Ops, the loading for each department is going to be different regardless of the way the Ops cake is sliced up. For my case, the cake sliced by Process and some processes are just inherently more challenging, fundamentally speaking. Yet, the ignorance from the top down is damning. The way Capex is divided, the way headcount is allocated and the way cost control is being managed, they just dont see it this way. All departments are the same but the reality isn't this way. Edited March 26, 2017 by Happily1986 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angcheek Hypersonic March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 If all fight for top .. very stress . Best is all do similarly bad ... easier life and still get bonus . Internally the staffs can equally divid out the bonus 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playtime Twincharged March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 Some mgrs consider volunteering for more jobs, taking over other dept responsibilities as the way to stay at the correct side of the curve. .. the workers in there die. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philipkee Twincharged March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 How you and i feel about the policy does not matter, it is the system you are talking about. Like it or not, it will persist till someone or some people from middle management got the guts to voice out this concern to upper management. Or unless the system gets a shock like from exceedingly appalling turnover rates e.g. in excess of 25%. It is not realistic. Especially in Ops, the loading for each department is going to be different regardless of the way the Ops cake is sliced up. For my case, the cake sliced by Process and some processes are just inherently more challenging, fundamentally speaking. Yet, the ignorance from the top down is damning. The way Capex is divided, the way headcount is allocated and the way cost control is being managed, they just dont see it this way. All departments are the same but the reality isn't this way. Sorry to say if turnover rate is so high that it causes a shock to management the first person to be sacked and have reputation ruined is the manager. New staff can be hired but the manager will be condenmed and maybe cannot be hired anymore if asked to leave because word will spread that he had whole dept leave under him. And by the way @Galantspeedz the reason why I say A is best and C worst, other than what others have said, one more thing. During appraisal you HAVE TO give a reason for low appraisal. If you have nothing to say then you cannot give the low appraisal but you will die because you never follow the bell curve (YOU will be marked down for not being able to appraise properly and one staff will still be selected to do poorly in appraisal and you cannot appeal since they had to randomly select since you never did your job) so you have to find something to say, no matter how weak and hope the staff does not appeal. If the staff appeals, if it fails it will be worst. If it succeeds it means another person will get moderated down just dunno where. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enye Hypersonic March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 it is a system designed to pay lower than budgeted bonuses in that year to all employees except for the very top no matter what you do as line manager, it really doesn't matter 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuelsaver Supercharged March 26, 2017 Share March 26, 2017 If your company is practising "Bell curve" for rating the employees, you can start looking for a better job. Chances is that sooner or later, those people under you will jump ship for a better prospect. This is especially true for those employees who work at the back end (trying to rush out all the things to ensure can meet shipment date), they'll feel very frustrated that they didn't get the pay rise or get peanuts increment due to the "Bell Curve". The most they'll bear it 2 to 3 years and start looking elsewhere for jobs. bobian leh,, over all these yrs mgt all adopt such a concept, mayb like this easier to convince top man on budget for performance bonus & increment.. ↡ Advertisement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In NowRelated Discussions
Related Discussions
Singtel line down?
Singtel line down?
Wads the fine for parking opposite continuos white line?
Wads the fine for parking opposite continuos white line?
Kia Cerato GT Line Owners Check In
Kia Cerato GT Line Owners Check In
The waiting time in calling in to UOB bank
The waiting time in calling in to UOB bank
Cross Island Line to take direct route across sgp
Cross Island Line to take direct route across sgp
New Thomson Line MRT
New Thomson Line MRT
* Calling all Honda Edix *
* Calling all Honda Edix *
Managers Exploit Loyal Workers Over Less Committed Colleagues
Managers Exploit Loyal Workers Over Less Committed Colleagues