New Tucson turbocharged 1.6-litre in SG 4Q of 2016

[Holdenutessv]

[Soya]

Tucson turbo for me. The japs juz doesn't cut it anymore.

[Lala81]

I have similar view before i own forester. However, after owning the car, the look grown on me. Now to me, it look as good as harrier and Tucson. Better look than those 3 u have highlighted.

 

Why not get one to confirm the hypothesis?

 

nah. it's ugly period. Just that it's a manly kind of ugly 

[chuanyan128]

Tucson turbo for me. The japs juz doesn't cut it anymore.

 

The japs are sharpening their samurai sword lah, Honda is coming out whole range of turbo models, just that the CVT takes away some fun. So still can cut.

[chuanyan128]

nah. it's ugly period. Just that it's a manly kind of ugly 

 

Not too bad lah, at least it stay true to the name "utility", AWD, more boxy design, simple, straightforward no nonsense rather than the more modern curvy design like QQ and Vezel. I would call Forester an SUV but crossover for QQ and Vezel. 

[Ahbengdriver]

Hyundai may even have learned from VW and improved their DCT... not being first to adopt new technology has its advantages.

Hyundai hired a number of senior people from VW and BMW-M and am sure their DCT will only get better.

 

Been considering a conti SUV but prices are kind of over the top.  This Tucson, does it has a bigger engine model with TC-ing? like 2 or 2.5L ? or diesel?

[Sopskysalat]

nah. it's ugly period. Just that it's a manly kind of ugly 

 

my wife and me tested the fxt too though we did not made the purchase eventually. 

her comment is the car looks yesteryear. does not look one from this decade...

hahaha........ but its drivetrain must be respected.

 

yesterday, i couldn't pull away my 1.6T from a civic 2.0 (modded) or a type R on NSHW for a bit of fun.

had a feeling that I should have gotten a FXT. hahah

 

then, how often do I run on NSHW too... 

[inlinesix]

my wife and me tested the fxt too though we did not made the purchase eventually. 

her comment is the car looks yesteryear. does not look one from this decade...

hahaha........ but its drivetrain must be respected.

 

yesterday, i couldn't pull away my 1.6T from a civic 2.0 (modded) or a type R on NSHW for a bit of fun.

had a feeling that I should have gotten a FXT. hahah

 

then, how often do I run on NSHW too... 

 

You can do it every week if you choose to do so.

 

I had driven all the way to Yong Peng for lunch.  Then Kluang for coffee and back to Sg.

 

My wife came along even though she think i am crazy.

[Sopskysalat]

david,

 

i went kluang for work yesterday.

did you try the barney western food? In fact, I drove there just for the dinner. 2 hr to, 2 hr back, 1 hr dinner. I am quite crazy too!

hahah.... 

 

have not try the coffee but is it really good? it should be beside the train station.

i went as far as malacca for dinner with my sister whom is living in kl and back thereafter.

at times, can be tiring due to the intensity.

 

You can do it every week if you choose to do so.

 

I had driven all the way to Yong Peng for lunch.  Then Kluang for coffee and back to Sg.

 

My wife came along even though she think i am crazy.

 

[Kar_lover]

if forester looks like QQ, Vezel or CX-5 ... it will be all over spore road liao

 

Exactly....so why they wanna insist on dated design....if levorg and wrx can look nice then why their SUV so CMI....

One of the main changes is in the cevs policy. The turbo charged ver usually has higher banding.

 

Both NA and TC Veloster listed as neutral ($0) CEVS rebate leh....but the VT's OMV seems to have increased. My first gen VT only around $18k. Now is listed as $20k+

[Kar_lover]

The japs are sharpening their samurai sword lah, Honda is coming out whole range of turbo models, just that the CVT takes away some fun. So still can cut.

 

Its not just the outside design, its the inside too. 

 

Case in point, Jazz actually looks good outside but the inside is very plain, low tech and dated looking.

 

So far among Japs, Mazda interior is the best (by some margin), subaru interior actually second for me. H and T is CMI for the lower models. 

 

As far as performance is concerned, NTNT (no turbo no talk). I don't think CVT is really an issue, the WRX auto is also using CVT.

[Fuelsaver]

Just google for Hyundai veloster dct, you will see quite a fair bit of complaints.

a good read; note i may be accused of generalizing -

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20151207/OEM06/312079988/once-promising-dual-clutch-transmissions-lose-favor-in-u.s.

MISSED SHIFT

 

Once-promising dual-clutch transmissions lose favor in U.S.

 

December 7, 2015 @ 12:01 am

David Sedgwick

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Not so long ago, dual-clutch transmissions -- with their superior fuel economy and lightning-quick gear shifts -- were widely viewed as the Next Big Thing.

Automakers were counting on those gearboxes to improve fuel economy ratings 6 to 10 percent without compromising performance.

Not anymore.

After Volkswagen introduced dual- clutch transmissions in 2003, several mass-market automakers followed suit, only to encounter quality bugs and consumer complaints.

Ford Motor Co. and Honda Motor Co. suffered a spate of complaints after introducing dual- clutch transmissions in the Ford Focus, Ford Fiesta and Acura TLX. And Fiat Chrysler -- which once planned to produce 700,000 dual- shift gearboxes a year in the U.S. -- has dropped it from its long-term plans for North America.

Consumer Reports and J.D. Power have both reported a sharp uptick in complaints about faulty transmissions, as automakers seeking better fuel economy rolled out dual-clutch gearboxes, continuously variable transmissions and eight- and nine-speed transmissions.

"In the past, transmissions were things you could count on, but that's no longer true," said Jake Fisher,Consumer Reports' director of auto testing. "We are seeing major problems that will leave people stranded on the side of the road."

Dual-clutch transmissions are twin gearboxes linked by a pair of clutches. One gearbox handles the first, third and fifth gears, while the other covers the second, fourth and sixth gears.

With one clutch for odd-numbered gears and the other for even-numbered gears, the transmission can pre-select the next gear the driver is likely to shift into. That allows quicker gear shifts than manual transmissions.

And since the dual-clutch gearbox does not require a torque converter, it's more efficient than an automatic transmission.

Supercar makers McLaren, Lamborghini, Ferrari and Porsche all adopted dual- clutch gearboxes, whose rapid shifts rendered manual transmissions obsolete. And in 2003, the Volkswagen Golf was the first mass-market model to feature a dual clutch transmission.

After Volkswagen rolled out the "direct shift gearbox" for its namesake brand and Audi, the technology appeared ready for the mass market.

In 2007, Chrysler announced plans to build a $530 million plant in Indiana that would produce up to 700,000 Getrag AG transmissions a year.

One year later, Ford announced plans to build a $500 million transmission plant in Irapuato, Mexico, in a joint venture with Getrag. In 2010, the plant began churning out dual-clutch transmissions for the Ford Focus and Fiesta.

But Chrysler and Ford both ran into trouble. In 2008, Chrysler pulled out of its joint venture with Getrag after it rejected the supplier's financing terms for the plant's tooling. That same year, the joint venture filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Currently, just three FCA models -- the Dodge Dart, Fiat 500L and the Alfa Romeo 4C -- feature dual-clutch transmissions made by Fiat in Italy. And the company's powertrain strategy unveiled last May identified dual- clutch gearboxes as a promising technology in Asia -- but not North America.

In the U.S., FCA is betting on eight- and nine-speed automatic transmissions, said Jeff Lux, FCA's North American vice president of transmission powertrains.

Conventional transmissions "continue to evolve in efficiency," Lux said, "so there isn't much eagerness [at Fiat Chrysler] to make trade-offs between driveability and better fuel economy."

Performance brands such as Ferrari and Alfa Romeo will continue to use dual-clutch gearboxes, Lux said, but there isn't much appetite for their use in mass-market models.

"In the past, transmissions were things you could count on, but that's no longer true."

Jake Fisher,

Consumer Reports

 

Ford's problems

Meanwhile, Ford introduced dual-clutch gearboxes in the 2011 Ford Fiesta, followed by the Focus. But car owner complaints quickly piled up. The transmission worked well at highway speeds, but lurched or stalled in city driving, disgruntled owners said.

On Jan. 1, 2011, Ford issued a technical service bulletin to dealers that noted the Fiesta's PowerShift transmission could suffer "a loss of power, hesitation, surge, or lack of throttle response while driving."

The automaker issued a variety of fixes, including both software and hardware. As recently as February, Ford issued a "customer satisfaction program" to repair the transmission control module.

And now the issue is getting hashed out in court. In 2012, the Los Angeles-based law firm Capstone Partners APC filed the first of three lawsuits in a U.S. district court on behalf of owners who claim their vehicles suffered repeated breakdowns.

The firm's lawsuits in the Central District of California seek class-action status.

Contacted last week, Capstone attorney Tarek Zohdy declined to indicate how many plaintiffs were expected to join the lawsuit. Ford spokesman Paul Seredynski also declined comment.

But judging by complaints to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, it seems possible that the number of plaintiffs could run into the hundreds or even thousands. (See sidebar, Page 4.) Over the past four years or so, NHTSA's SaferCar.gov has logged approximately 500 complaints about Ford's transmission, according to Capstone's count.

Numerous software and hardware upgrades have vastly improved the PowerShift's performance, says Ford engineering manager Chris Kwasniewicz.

But unlike European consumers, most American motorists haven't driven a stick shift, so they aren't accustomed to a dual clutch's more abrupt gear shifts.

In 2011 "we found that North American customers were not really ready for this application yet," Kwasniewicz said. "European customers understood the startup shudder. They were used to that. They grew up with manuals and were accustomed to them."

So Ford has asked dealers to explain PowerShift's characteristics to shoppers, he said. Their message: "Don't be rattled. It will act a little different. And it will deliver the fuel economy that you want."

Sales personnel at Village Ford in Dearborn, Mich., took the company's advice to heart, said Bob Wheat, the dealership's sales manager.

"If customers are prepared for it and understand it, then they have no issues," Wheat said. "People who haven't driven a manual transmission expect the car to be smooth as silk, so we have to set the right expectation level."

While Ford is the target of Capstone's lawsuit, it isn't the only automaker that has struggled with dual-clutch issues. Honda Motor introduced an eight-speed dual-clutch transmission on the 2015 Acura TLX sedan, followed by the ILX compact sedan.

To ensure smoother performance at low speeds, Honda added a torque converter, but complaints piled up anyway. SaferCar.gov has logged 38 reports from motorists who said their vehicles hesitated, surged or suffered from jerky shifts at low speeds.

Gary Robinson, Acura's U.S. product chief, toldAutomotive News that Honda issued a software upgrade to improve the transmission's performance at low speeds. "We've made some good improvements -- mostly software," Robinson said. "I would say it's pretty normal with a new piece of technology. We are continuously improving it."

 

 

Stuck in neutral

Though growing, use of dual-clutch transmissions in the U.S. is below expectations.   2012 2014 2016 2018 2020 Automatic 11,619,846 11,884,855 12,271,737 12,277,648 11,361,358 CVT 1,231,831 2,369,040 2,943,528 2,875,029 3,070,635 Dual clutch 457,176 324,986 698,814 846,894 884,938 Manual 767,694 1,245,864 884,882 841,349 847,155 Electric variable 395,495 617,309 451,694 481,412 715,668             Source: Sales and projections from IHS Automotive

 

 

 

While Ford's and Honda's dual-clutch woes have attracted attention, other types of transmissions have experienced teething problems, too.

Other transmission woes

Now, assorted transmission woes are showing up in J.D. Power's annual quality surveys. According to the research firm's most recent Initial Quality Study, transmission issues now are the seventh most frequent consumer complaint.

Transmission problems ranked 10th in 2013, and eighth in 2014. As far back as 2009, transmissions were not a Top 10 problem in the IQS.

For many years, conventional automatic gearboxes with four, five or six speeds generated very few complaints, said Renee Stephens, vice president of U.S. auto quality for J.D. Power. The auto industry "got really good at it," Stephens said.

But new transmissions of all kinds have proved difficult to calibrate, she said: "The main problem is hesitation and shifting at inappropriate times, particularly at low speeds. If motorists press on the gas and it doesn't accelerate, then it's not meeting their expectations."

So, will dual-clutch transmissions carve out a niche in the U.S.? This year, automakers are expected to sell 603,000 dual-clutch gearboxes in the United States -- about 3.5 percent of total U.S. light-vehicle sales, according to a forecast by IHS Automotive.

By 2020, dual-clutch vehicle sales are expected to rise to 885,000, or 5 percent of total light-vehicle sales. So IHS Automotive expects the transmission's U.S. niche will expand -- but only a little bit.

Dual-clutch transmissions "have taken a beating among consumers," said IHS researcher David Petrovski.

"If people aren't used to it, they think something is wrong."

 

[MQX87511]

Its not just the outside design, its the inside too. 

 

Case in point, Jazz actually looks good outside but the inside is very plain, low tech and dated looking.

 

So far among Japs, Mazda interior is the best (by some margin), subaru interior actually second for me. H and T is CMI for the lower models. 

 

As far as performance is concerned, NTNT (no turbo no talk). I don't think CVT is really an issue, the WRX auto is also using CVT.

honestly speaking, as the material technology improved, CVT is the trendy of mid and compact level vehicles drivetrain,

however DCT has some technical bottle neck cannot overcome using on common cars especially on city congestion traffic,

it will be mostly used for sporty cars running on w/o obstructs race way 

[Xtrah]

my wife and me tested the fxt too though we did not made the purchase eventually. 

her comment is the car looks yesteryear. does not look one from this decade...

hahaha........ but its drivetrain must be respected.

 

yesterday, i couldn't pull away my 1.6T from a civic 2.0 (modded) or a type R on NSHW for a bit of fun.

had a feeling that I should have gotten a FXT. hahah

 

then, how often do I run on NSHW too... 

 

Yours 1.6T is Picasso? You car HP is about the same or less than a standard 2.0 Civic. Your higher torque is only good for pickup. The Civic is lighter and it will definitely outrun you. Unless you feed your car with chips to increase your car HP. After all MPV will still have slight disadvantage due to their kerb weight.

[Sopskysalat]

Good spot on!

 

I believe the civic is more than just a standard 2.0 specification as there is twin exhaust (big one) on each side of the car and probably with CAI done, bit and pieces to increase HP. Maybe even have turbocharger though unlikely. Don't think it is type R as there is no red badge.

 

My car kerb weight is not more than 1400kg so it is relatively light too. Not sure how heavy the car is but definitely, civic has slight edge over my car. But when i was behind him, he couldn't pull away much from me either.... hahaha

 

Maybe I should just keep the gear at 4th or 5th and try.

 

Anyway, this is just kopi talk, not to induce racing or promote dangerous driving.

Yours 1.6T is Picasso? You car HP is about the same or less than a standard 2.0 Civic. Your higher torque is only good for pickup. The Civic is lighter and it will definitely outrun you. Unless you feed your car with chips to increase your car HP. After all MPV will still have slight disadvantage due to their kerb weight.

 

[Sopskysalat]

though many have said normal torque converter has made great leap in technology in recent years, more than what DCT could have done.

Still, DCT is an evolutionary product with both speed and economy advantage. torque converter with its low speed lock up provides connected drive feel but it lacks direct feel from pick up and shift is low and few percentage of losses from the most advance torque converter such as 9G-tronic and ZF8.

 

Well, many will say DSG is lemon but it is the cheapest and best DCT one can buy with 8ms shift speed. (it is also the worst experience some may got as a result of it)

 

yes, most road user will not require such quick shift but with the increasing stringent requirement on emission, DCT will become more mainstream as car manufacturer is trying to cut down on emission and consumption. 

 

Subaru has revolutionized their CVT to become lineartronic cvt. I think it is a great product too!

 

 

honestly speaking, as the material technology improved, CVT is the trendy of mid and compact level vehicles drivetrain,

however DCT has some technical bottle neck cannot overcome using on common cars especially on city congestion traffic,

it will be mostly used for sporty cars running on w/o obstructs race way 

 

[7hm]

Its not just the outside design, its the inside too. 

 

Case in point, Jazz actually looks good outside but the inside is very plain, low tech and dated looking.

 

So far among Japs, Mazda interior is the best (by some margin), subaru interior actually second for me. H and T is CMI for the lower models. 

 

As far as performance is concerned, NTNT (no turbo no talk). I don't think CVT is really an issue, the WRX auto is also using CVT.

 

I find Subaru's interior design is too utilitarian and "workmanlike". Some like this however, and it is mostly comprised of square shapes for a coherent and inoffensive look.

Subaru does get modernity points for the use of dual screens (they are the only one with this extra screen on the top of dash), but Mazda definitely has the lead for class and overall aesthetic style.

[chuanyan128]

Its not just the outside design, its the inside too. 

 

Case in point, Jazz actually looks good outside but the inside is very plain, low tech and dated looking.

 

So far among Japs, Mazda interior is the best (by some margin), subaru interior actually second for me. H and T is CMI for the lower models. 

 

As far as performance is concerned, NTNT (no turbo no talk). I don't think CVT is really an issue, the WRX auto is also using CVT.

 

Agree with mazda interior being the best. Seen pics and video of their new CX-9, simply gorgeous and turbo also. That'll be my next ride.