Dealers and Consumers-The continuing SAGA Part III

[The_Bear]

It's different la bro. If the sales person say the car is sold at 30.5k, I will just pay him the car comm. if sell at 30k + 500 adim, I will pay him car comm+ a certain percentage of the 500 he collected. This is how my commission structure I pay it out. Different company have different structure.

It seems more logical to set a realistic base price than to lose a potential deal or antagonizing that poor salesman over $500. Eg. Car advertises at $32,888. Base price is $29000. Between $29k and $23,888, the amount is split between company and salesman. If really go below $29000, then maybe a fix rate to salesman. Note the key point here is trust. If the salesman cannot even trust his boss to be honest, this will not work.

Its seems like you dont understand what i mean. You are able to come up with 50% or 40% downpayment, how many are able to? Are we suppose to drop them? Are we suppose to reject the purchase?

 

Supposedly if ALL and i mean ALL customers can afford 50% or 40% down payment, it is a PERFECT WORLD! How perfect is the world are we living in. Compensate loss for my malpractise? NO NO NO! I am saying if a mark up is required (rich ppl like you dont need) because of loan issue, i collect a $500-800 to defray my cost of tax, how wrong is that?

 

Are you suggesting that if they cannot afford, just chase them away? You suggesting that? Please do not act like you were born 30mins ago that you do not know how the market works in terms of the 80% loan. Maybe you need to because you are a moderator, someone who commands respect in the cyberworld.

You ownself say cannot afford then rent one. And i even agreed with you...

[Mrmilktooth]

From what I gathered here, it appears that some dealers are boosting the value of the cars, so that they can "help" buyers get higher loans. However, in doing so, they are paying higher tax as they are recognising higher revenue, hence they are seeking "reimbursements" from buyers in the form of "admin fees" to offset the higher tax.

 

There are a few instances of non-compliance with laws here. Firstly, the boosting of value of the cars is a form of creative accounting that doesn't reflect arms length transaction. This is against the Singapore Financial Reporting Standards.

 

Secondly, by creating fictitious account receivables and the subsequent write-off, these dealers can control their profitability and tax liabilities in different time periods. This is against both the Singapore Financial Reporting Standards and Income Tax Act.

 

Thirdly, they are circumventing the MAS Notice 642 Motor Vehicle Loan by making false declaration to the financial institutions with regards to the true value of the cars.

 

And as I have also pointed out earlier, the more serious non-compliance could be the Penal Code which carries jail term of up to 10 years. I'm not sure if I have left out any laws which said dealers may be guilty of. I may be wrong though on all counts above.

 

I hope these dealers know the consequences of their actions.

Boosting is very prevalent. I have shortlisted some cars on sgcm and quite often I will see the dealer raise price by 10-20k and I thought siao ah what they trying to pull a fast one on insuspecting buyers?!!

 

And then the next day or so I get email notification say the car is sold. I'm like wtf until I release this method of doing sales due to loan amount.

[Weez911]

Boosting is very prevalent. I have shortlisted some cars on sgcm and quite often I will see the dealer raise price by 10-20k and I thought siao ah what they trying to pull a fast one on insuspecting buyers?!!

 

And then the next day or so I get email notification say the car is sold. I'm like wtf until I release this method of doing sales due to loan amount.

If many dealers are doing it, then MAS will probably just heng suay choose 1 and punish gao gao. The rest will stop for a while, then continue again after 1 to 2 months.

 

Only when the buying stops, the dealers stop.

[The_Bear]

If many dealers are doing it, then MAS will probably just heng suay choose 1 and punish gao gao. The rest will stop for a while, then continue again after 1 to 2 months.

 

Only when the buying stops, the dealers stop.

Yes. We do not know if there will be more Jover Chews but it was one step forward in the correct direction.

[Galantspeedz]

What about the mark up difference? Its taxable mind you.

 

just saw this message...

 

higher comm + admin fee 300-500 = tax payable...

 

if the admin fee is for tax... then why is it split with salesman as extra comm ..... keyword is extra

[Kusje]

If many dealers are doing it, then MAS will probably just heng suay choose 1 and punish gao gao. The rest will stop for a while, then continue again after 1 to 2 months.

 

Only when the buying stops, the dealers stop.

 

No la. Enforcement can work but cannot be just 1 per month.

 

Should also make the fines high enough to make this a revenue generator in MAS.

[Donut]

at this time and age.. with so much internet shopping/purchases...  

 

many sellers are realizing the monetary benefits of selling directly

 

the ''value add'' provided by dealers is getting minimal with their profit margin getting larger

 

heard reasons such as ''provide for lemon law expenses'', demand for shorter term cars higher etc etc 

 

 

idk la... my mind juz cannot get ard why new car depreciation is lesser than used cars...  and if this is not benefiting from MAS ruling... 

 

the car market is a cowboy town........ 

[JCSL]

You ownself say cannot afford then rent one. And i even agreed with you...

[JCSL]

just saw this message...

 

higher comm + admin fee 300-500 = tax payable...

 

if the admin fee is for tax... then why is it split with salesman as extra comm ..... keyword is extra

 

I didnt say it was. In my case i dont use admin fee to pay as comm. thanks.

[JCSL]

I think the conclusion at the end of the day is A Used Car Dealer SHOULD

 

1. Cannot collect deposit for inspection, no matter how many inspections a day MUST ENTERTAIN (Buyer need to have it THEIR WAY)

2. No Admin Fee (dont care high loan or not high loan or loan or no loan, just cannot charge)

3. Allow buyer to do their own insurance (nevermind the dealer they die or not, important buyer wanna have it THEIR WAY)

3. Buy in from owner/seller must buy only at max $1000 less from what Sgcarmart is posting (nevermind if its a mark up for loan price)

4. Sell to buyer must be ultra cheap, like at least $5000-$7000 off the asking (best if dealer lose money, who cares if they close down)

5. Car must be as good as new condition (leather no crack/torn also must do up a new one)

6. Guarantee/Warranty 6 months for everything in and on the car (wipers and tires as well maybe)

 

 

I guess thats about all, maybe buyers can add on to the list :)

 

 

 

Any other additions?

[JCSL]

at this time and age.. with so much internet shopping/purchases...  

 

many sellers are realizing the monetary benefits of selling directly

 

the ''value add'' provided by dealers is getting minimal with their profit margin getting larger

 

heard reasons such as ''provide for lemon law expenses'', demand for shorter term cars higher etc etc 

 

 

idk la... my mind juz cannot get ard why new car depreciation is lesser than used cars...  and if this is not benefiting from MAS ruling... 

 

If you count depreciation for new car is based on the 10 year duration, you are correct but that is provided if you complete the 10yr tenure. Should you decide to dispose, you will see how big diff the depreciation maybe.

 

Used car on the other hand are more contained, ie. a car left one year, however you lose on the value of purchase against scrap at the end of COE life is predictable and calculated, hence a safer bet.

 

Another example, COEs were at a all time low in 2009, if you buy a 2009 vehicle now at the prices today, you will suffer badly if the COE crash, on the contrary if you choose a 2013 vehicle whose COE is 70/80K, fret not, worst case your paper value can sustain the market crashes.

 

The choices most buyers choose now are short term like 6months to 1yr, at most 1.5yrs, very manageable risk for their money put into purchase, of cos, purchase price plays a part. Honestly to me, ALTIS at 14k depre PA asking is daylight robbery, that being said, offer to buy in cannot be lower than 10K  depre PA, else no owners will sell to us also.

[Galantspeedz]

If you count depreciation for new car is based on the 10 year duration, you are correct but that is provided if you complete the 10yr tenure. Should you decide to dispose, you will see how big diff the depreciation maybe.

 

Used car on the other hand are more contained, ie. a car left one year, however you lose on the value of purchase against scrap at the end of COE life is predictable and calculated, hence a safer bet.

 

Another example, COEs were at a all time low in 2009, if you buy a 2009 vehicle now at the prices today, you will suffer badly if the COE crash, on the contrary if you choose a 2013 vehicle whose COE is 70/80K, fret not, worst case your paper value can sustain the market crashes.

 

The choices most buyers choose now are short term like 6months to 1yr, at most 1.5yrs, very manageable risk for their money put into purchase, of cos, purchase price plays a part. Honestly to me, ALTIS at 14k depre PA asking is daylight robbery, that being said, offer to buy in cannot be lower than 10K  depre PA, else no owners will sell to us also.

 

to add on, the interest for a 5yr loan and 1-2 yr loan also quite a bit of difference

[CarsEnthusiast]

I think the conclusion at the end of the day is A Used Car Dealer SHOULD

 

1. Cannot collect deposit for inspection, no matter how many inspections a day MUST ENTERTAIN (Buyer need to have it THEIR WAY)

2. No Admin Fee (dont care high loan or not high loan or loan or no loan, just cannot charge)

3. Allow buyer to do their own insurance (nevermind the dealer they die or not, important buyer wanna have it THEIR WAY)

3. Buy in from owner/seller must buy only at max $1000 less from what Sgcarmart is posting (nevermind if its a mark up for loan price)

4. Sell to buyer must be ultra cheap, like at least $5000-$7000 off the asking (best if dealer lose money, who cares if they close down)

5. Car must be as good as new condition (leather no crack/torn also must do up a new one)

6. Guarantee/Warranty 6 months for everything in and on the car (wipers and tires as well maybe)

 

 

I guess thats about all, maybe buyers can add on to the Wishlist :)

 

 

 

Any other additions?

 

You can carry on wishing and hoping

 

[Galantspeedz]

I didnt say it was. In my case i dont use admin fee to pay as comm. thanks.

 

which is actually interesting.... some use the admin fee for supposedly items they need to pay.. while some use it broadly....

 

so the admin fee you used is due to cover taxable... ignoring the fact if it is legitimate... at least there is a reason to do so..

 

how about those without loan? is it for additional revenue due to loss of commission?

[titarium]

I think the conclusion at the end of the day is A Used Car Dealer SHOULD

 

1. Cannot collect deposit for inspection, no matter how many inspections a day MUST ENTERTAIN (Buyer need to have it THEIR WAY)

2. No Admin Fee (dont care high loan or not high loan or loan or no loan, just cannot charge)

3. Allow buyer to do their own insurance (nevermind the dealer they die or not, important buyer wanna have it THEIR WAY)

3. Buy in from owner/seller must buy only at max $1000 less from what Sgcarmart is posting (nevermind if its a mark up for loan price)

4. Sell to buyer must be ultra cheap, like at least $5000-$7000 off the asking (best if dealer lose money, who cares if they close down)

5. Car must be as good as new condition (leather no crack/torn also must do up a new one)

6. Guarantee/Warranty 6 months for everything in and on the car (wipers and tires as well maybe)

 

 

I guess thats about all, maybe buyers can add on to the list :)

 

 

 

Any other additions?

 

might as well buy direct.... better still buy new 

[Little_prince]

Its seems like you dont understand what i mean. You are able to come up with 50% or 40% downpayment, how many are able to? Are we suppose to drop them? Are we suppose to reject the purchase?

 

Supposedly if ALL and i mean ALL customers can afford 50% or 40% down payment, it is a PERFECT WORLD! How perfect is the world are we living in. Compensate loss for my malpractise? NO NO NO! I am saying if a mark up is required (rich ppl like you dont need) because of loan issue, i collect a $500-800 to defray my cost of tax, how wrong is that?

 

Are you suggesting that if they cannot afford, just chase them away? You suggesting that? Please do not act like you were born 30mins ago that you do not know how the market works in terms of the 80% loan. Maybe you need to because you are a moderator, someone who commands respect in the cyberworld.

 

actually yes.

 

that's the whole intent of the new rules.

 

to prevent people who cannot afford from getting into trouble. what you're doing now is not only illegal but also immoral.

[Spurman]

Coe drop but used car prices rises so much so dep much higher per yr than brand new.

 

Part reason i guess dealers play loophole in loan and sillyporeans dun mind the higher dep

[Little_prince]

Coe drop but used car prices rises so much so dep much higher per yr than brand new.

 

Part reason i guess dealers play loophole in loan and sillyporeans dun mind the higher dep

Don't blame the dealers ok.

 

You cannot read ah.

 

They are actually doing a favour for Singaporeans.

 

We should treat them as hero ok?

 

Pls show them more respect