Dealers and Consumers-The continuing SAGA Part III

[CarsEnthusiast]

I still remembered 19 years ago when I went to shop for a used car as my first car to buy. I was treated so coldly and rudely by the Ah Beng saleman because he thought I had no money and was only a look see buyer. That experience left me with a bitter aftertaste and I decided henceforth that I will only buy cars from salemen who are into customer service and repeat business. But in the end I ended up buying all my new and used cars exclusively from my car dealer best friend all these years. I should have gone to him in the first place instead of trying to get a car from somewhere else but at that time I was a bit uncomfortable about letting him know all my financial information as I will be taking up a car loan. He and I were ex-colleagues working in the claims department of a well known local insurance company. 

[Carnoob]

But if the dealer is a Sole Proprietor, he is effectively both the direct seller and owner. Buyer will then be covered under the Lemon Law. Talk about having the best of both worlds and getting your cake and eating it. However, this is only applicable if the car dealer who is a sole proprietor has deep pockets because very few car dealers operating as sole proprietors are in good financial health.

Who knows that he has a company if he doesn't disclose and use only his name during transactions? So the buyer would have thought that he bought from a direct seller and not covered under lemon law. And technically if the sole proprietor registered a company not as retail sales of motor vehicles then he will not be liable for lemon law since he is just selling away his company asset and not as a 'dealer'.

 

Even though the sole proprietor and company may not be a separate legal entity, the fact that he is "disguising / selling" under Direct Seller is an indirect indication to me that he is intentional hiding a company name in which the buyer can sue / feedback under the lemon law.

 

However during negotiation, if the sole proprietor revealed that the car is covered under lemon law, then I'm fine with him listing as direct seller. I have seen many listed as Direct Seller only to find him selling 2 other cars under Direct Seller as well. Is it really difficult for sole proprietor to sell with his company name stamped on it?

[CarsEnthusiast]

Who knows that he has a company if he doesn't disclose and use only his name during transactions? So the buyer would have thought that he bought from a direct seller and not covered under lemon law. And technically if the sole proprietor registered a company not as retail sales of motor vehicles then he will not be liable for lemon law since he is just selling away his company asset and not as a 'dealer'.

 

Even though the sole proprietor and company may not be a separate legal entity, the fact that he is "disguising / selling" under Direct Seller is an indirect indication to me that he is intentional hiding a company name in which the buyer can sue / feedback under the lemon law.

 

However during negotiation, if the sole proprietor revealed that the car is covered under lemon law, then I'm fine with him listing as direct seller. I have seen many listed as Direct Seller only to find him selling 2 other cars under Direct Seller as well. Is it really difficult for sole proprietor to sell with his company name stamped on it?

 

I can see your line of argument and the angle you are coming from which I think is valid. I think all these sole proprietors felt that marketing their cars as direct sellers will attract more car buyers since buyers are inherently wary of car dealers and salemen.

[Gizmore]

Buying a used car from dealer, go in with eyes wide open. Use common sense. Nobody can force you to buy if you sense anything fishy. You have every right to just walk away. 

 

If you behave like a carrot head in front of the dealer, then don't blame the dealer from chopping you like one. 

 

Like a lot of ppl said, there are good dealer, there are bad dealers. I have gotten my ride as used too. No issues. I have accompanied a few friends to view and eventually deal. No big issue so far. Some have issues with car and were duly fixed after reporting to dealer. 

 

And please have the right expectation of the kind of service that dealer can give. Don't expect that ah beng dealer to handle you using Queen's English or 5-star hotel service standard. These dealer are direct and frank. If you are a cb-everything-also-in-your-favour, then they won't hesitate to give you the cb-attitude also. 

 

Used car market is highly unregulated and honestly, if the government comes in to regulate things, I can assure you the only outcome is that there won't be much price difference between used car and brand new. 

Edited December 18, 2015 by Gizmore

[Carnoob]

I can see your line of argument and the angle you are coming from which I think is valid. I think all these sole proprietors felt that marketing their cars as direct sellers will attract more car buyers since buyers are inherently wary of car dealers and salemen.

There is always the pros and cons but at the end of the day, everyone just want a fair deal: win-win for both parties. For me, I just require integrity and frankness.

 

[Civicfighter]

many years ago, a dealer ask me to help him out by taking a minimal loan.... i agreed and told him to source for best rates.. after that i went to do my own research and i told him i will only take the loan from a specific bank because they were the only one without early settlement charges or tie in period........ he refused saying he does not do that company... it was one of the big banks.....

 

so i told him... then i will not take loan....

 

on the day of car delivery..... he told me to give him kopi money..... i ask how much. he say $500', standard practice...... i say.. it must be very expensive coffee and laughed... then i told him don't waste my time.. he earned enough from me... and i took the keys, the car and left....

Altough I am a car dealer myself, I would never tell the customer admin fees at the very last when everything is complete. I had made known to my sales persons just let the customer know there is admin fees when negotiating. The amount of admin fees collected must also write it down in the sales agreement. So there will be no dispute between my company and the customer.

[Galantspeedz]

Who knows that he has a company if he doesn't disclose and use only his name during transactions? So the buyer would have thought that he bought from a direct seller and not covered under lemon law. And technically if the sole proprietor registered a company not as retail sales of motor vehicles then he will not be liable for lemon law since he is just selling away his company asset and not as a 'dealer'.

 

Even though the sole proprietor and company may not be a separate legal entity, the fact that he is "disguising / selling" under Direct Seller is an indirect indication to me that he is intentional hiding a company name in which the buyer can sue / feedback under the lemon law.

 

However during negotiation, if the sole proprietor revealed that the car is covered under lemon law, then I'm fine with him listing as direct seller. I have seen many listed as Direct Seller only to find him selling 2 other cars under Direct Seller as well. Is it really difficult for sole proprietor to sell with his company name stamped on it?

 

you can do a search

 

http://www.dnb.com.sg/reports_via_epayment.html

 

https://www.questnet.sg/

[Blacksnow]

Buying a used car from dealer, go in with eyes wide open. Use common sense. Nobody can force you to buy if you sense anything fishy. You have every right to just walk away. 

 

If you behave like a carrot head in front of the dealer, then don't blame the dealer from chopping you like one. 

 

Like a lot of ppl said, there are good dealer, there are bad dealers. I have gotten my ride as used too. No issues. I have accompanied a few friends to view and eventually deal. No big issue so far. Some have issues with car and were duly fixed after reporting to dealer. 

 

And please have the right expectation of the kind of service that dealer can give. Don't expect that ah beng dealer to handle you using Queen's English or 5-star hotel service standard. These dealer are direct and frank. If you are a cb-everything-also-in-your-favour, then they won't hesitate to give you the cb-attitude also. 

 

Used car market is highly unregulated and honestly, if the government comes in to regulate things, I can assure you the only outcome is that there won't be much price difference between used car and brand new. 

as though there is much price difference between used car and brand new now....duh

[Galantspeedz]

Altough I am a car dealer myself, I would never tell the customer admin fees at the very last when everything is complete. I had made known to my sales persons just let the customer know there is admin fees when negotiating. The amount of admin fees collected must also write it down in the sales agreement. So there will be no dispute between my company and the customer.

 

agree... i presume it was because i did not take loan after that thus he mentioned about the kopi money..

 

personally i won't pay for admin fee as i feel dealers has various income streams to supplement their commission...

 

maybe you can share what is the purpose of admin fee?

[Hamburger]

agree... i presume it was because i did not take loan after that thus he mentioned about the kopi money..

 

personally i won't pay for admin fee as i feel dealers has various income streams to supplement their commission...

 

maybe you can share what is the purpose of admin fee?

 

well bro to each his own, but for me........i would surely not buy from such dealer.

[Carnoob]

you can do a search

 

http://www.dnb.com.sg/reports_via_epayment.html

 

https://www.questnet.sg/

Thanks bro, but I had been using bizfile.gov.sg all these while... Juz trying to illustrate that the general public may not be as tech savy as us...

[Galantspeedz]

Thanks bro, but I had been using bizfile.gov.sg all these while... Juz trying to illustrate that the general public may not be as tech savy as us...

 

agree.. but  if we don't bother ourselves... how do we expect others to bother.... if you get my drift...... 

 

i am sure.... what we are doing now is borne out of experience and doing research... not something that is we are born with.....

Disagree. We customers have to vote with our hard earned money that bad attitude, dismissive and rude, confrontational style have no place in Singapore.

 

I want civil, transparent and honest dealings. I will tell salesman directly that I do not want him to handle the sale. Gracious but firm. I am never the aggressor.

 

 

actually this is 1 of the biggest problem... some people think that their money is big like bull cart wheel..... thus having ridiculous expectations

[Civicfighter]

agree... i presume it was because i did not take loan after that thus he mentioned about the kopi money..

 

personally i won't pay for admin fee as i feel dealers has various income streams to supplement their commission...

 

maybe you can share what is the purpose of admin fee?

Admin fees are "extras" commission for the sales person. For company is to cover some cost to the vehicle. For me, if the buyer meets my target car price and unwilling to give any admin fee, I would also sell it. Bro no need to walk away when sales person negotiate on admin fees. I am sure companies without collecting admin fee, they may sell you higher price which admin fees are already included in the car purchase. 羊毛出在羊身上

[Weez911]

Admin fees are "extras" commission for the sales person. For company is to cover some cost to the vehicle. For me, if the buyer meets my target car price and unwilling to give any admin fee, I would also sell it. Bro no need to walk away when sales person negotiate on admin fees. I am sure companies without collecting admin fee, they may sell you higher price which admin fees are already included in the car purchase. 羊毛出在羊身上

I see. Then instead of creating another expense item for buyers, why don't dealers just lump everything together? It sounds like a trick to squeeze another amount from unsuspecting customers.

[Hamburger]

so bottom line is....

 

wait for a sucker to be hooked?

[Civicfighter]

I see. Then instead of creating another expense item for buyers, why don't dealers just lump everything together? It sounds like a trick to squeeze another amount from unsuspecting customers.

In my earlier post, I had mentioned buyers just have to put in their minds there will be admin fees on top of watever car price they willing to negotiate ( usually nowadays buyers -$3k to $5k on asking). The sales person will surely tell there is admin fees. If buyers have a clear mind on paying admin fees, I do not think buyers will get shocked and walk off.

[Civicfighter]

so bottom line is....

 

wait for a sucker to be hooked?

If everything is said upfront(whatever fees) before signing on the sales agreement, I would say it's not waiting for sucker get hooked.

[Kusje]

If everything is said upfront(whatever fees) before signing on the sales agreement, I would say it's not waiting for sucker get hooked.

 

I think the main question here is why is there an admin fee need?

 

Instead of selling a car for 30k +500 admin fee, why not just say 30,500 off the bat and be done with it?

 

What is the difference to the dealer if he isn't trying to add in the 500 after the price for the car has been settled?

 

Also, it is not just about the S&P agreement is it? What if we settle the price at 30k verbally, you then come up to the buyer with the S&P and say, "oh, forgot to tell you that there's a 500 admin fee". Is that really fair? Granted, buyer can still walk away at that point.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Kusje