2015 Dec, 1st COE Bidding Exercise

[Wondertree]

Number 1 to 4 already exists, no? Cat A = small car, Cat B - luxury car, etc etc.

 

Only problem is how to definite things like small, luxury, etc. So they use engine cc to define small. But then luxury brands start to bring in 1.6L models. So in comes power limit so luxury brands bring in small engine models. Then how? As i said before, the nature of business is to evolve with the environment.

 

As for No. 5 i believe you mean only buyer allowed to *BID* for COE (not register). This has been said many many times before but it's not workable to FORCE buyer to bid themselves. How will LTA know it is the ACTUAL buyer bidding himself? I can just pass my account login particulars to the dealer to bid for me, right? And if the buyer don't mind the dealer to bid for them, why should LTA force buyer to bid themselves? It's not as if buyer is currently NOT ABLE to bid. You are free to bid yourself if you wish.  I believe you mean COE to be non-transferable - so how to sell your car if the COE is non-transferable? This also discussed many times before.

 

Number 6 i thought it's already quarterly now? Anyway i don't see how this will much difference.

 

But problem now is the used car market is ridiculously inflated. Depreciation same as buying new car.

 

I saw a 1.5yr old A class selling at $130k when new one was $150k.

 

It's technically simpler than what most people think. All you need is to remove the incentive to car dealers bidding coe, which in this case is car sales.  A ruling that cars can only be bought when you have already obtained the COE will totally do the trick. With such a pre-requisite, no dealer would bother bidding COE on behalf of buyers because the deal has not been locked in. 

 

To cut down under-the-table contracts of car sale without a coe, the key would be to penalize buyers who sign such contracts rather than dealers. Make it clear to all car owners that unlawful contracts would release the dealers from all liability arisen from the car. 

[Throttle2]

Haha. What makes you think I have a car coming?

I know you have lah

[Showster]

Minister KBW has had such good success with HDB that people are suggesting a CDB (Car Development Board) for cars!

 

Rethink how Singaporeans own cars

PUBLISHED19 MIN AGO

Currently, it seems that most private cars here are not used as often as they can be. They are locked-up assets that are depreciating ("The road to a car-less Singapore"; Dec 12).

 

Perhaps a situation similar to how Singaporeans lease flats from the Housing Board could be implemented for cars.

 

Form a public limited company, which would own a certain number of cars. This number can be determined by the Land Transport Authority (LTA), which will ascertain what density of cars would ensure efficient traffic flow on the road.

 

Singaporeans who wish to use a car can call this public company for a car to be delivered and then return it after use. Those who wish to use the car for a longer period will have to pay more for it.

 

A certain number of cars can still be sold to the rich under a private carpool scheme, with the current certificate of entitlement system still in place. This is similar to owning private condominiums and good-class bungalows.

 

However, the total number of cars belonging to the public limited company and private carpool scheme should still be determined by the LTA to ensure efficient traffic flow.

 

Such a system could get us closer to the dream of a car-less Singapore.

 

T. N. Srinivasan

[Yeshe]

Minister KBW has had such good success with HDB that people are suggesting a CDB (Car Development Board) for cars!

 

Rethink how Singaporeans own cars

PUBLISHED19 MIN AGO

Currently, it seems that most private cars here are not used as often as they can be. They are locked-up assets that are depreciating ("The road to a car-less Singapore"; Dec 12).

 

Perhaps a situation similar to how Singaporeans lease flats from the Housing Board could be implemented for cars.

 

Form a public limited company, which would own a certain number of cars. This number can be determined by the Land Transport Authority (LTA), which will ascertain what density of cars would ensure efficient traffic flow on the road.

 

Singaporeans who wish to use a car can call this public company for a car to be delivered and then return it after use. Those who wish to use the car for a longer period will have to pay more for it.

 

A certain number of cars can still be sold to the rich under a private carpool scheme, with the current certificate of entitlement system still in place. This is similar to owning private condominiums and good-class bungalows.

 

However, the total number of cars belonging to the public limited company and private carpool scheme should still be determined by the LTA to ensure efficient traffic flow.

 

Such a system could get us closer to the dream of a car-less Singapore.

 

T. N. Srinivasan

 

kiang ju hor, mai gek kiang :D

 

[edwin15]

Minister KBW has had such good success with HDB that people are suggesting a CDB (Car Development Board) for cars!

 

Rethink how Singaporeans own cars

PUBLISHED19 MIN AGO

Currently, it seems that most private cars here are not used as often as they can be. They are locked-up assets that are depreciating ("The road to a car-less Singapore"; Dec 12).

 

Perhaps a situation similar to how Singaporeans lease flats from the Housing Board could be implemented for cars.

 

Form a public limited company, which would own a certain number of cars. This number can be determined by the Land Transport Authority (LTA), which will ascertain what density of cars would ensure efficient traffic flow on the road.

 

Singaporeans who wish to use a car can call this public company for a car to be delivered and then return it after use. Those who wish to use the car for a longer period will have to pay more for it.

 

A certain number of cars can still be sold to the rich under a private carpool scheme, with the current certificate of entitlement system still in place. This is similar to owning private condominiums and good-class bungalows.

 

However, the total number of cars belonging to the public limited company and private carpool scheme should still be determined by the LTA to ensure efficient traffic flow.

 

Such a system could get us closer to the dream of a car-less Singapore.

 

T. N. Srinivasan

 

 

I thought HDB scheme is to promote home ownership and make housing more affordable among Singaporeans. How does using the same scheme to promote home ownership with cars bring Singapore more to a car-less society?

 

Seems this will more likely lower the costs of car ownership and increase car "ownership". Just that "ownership" is redefined. 

[alexndrtz]

This has been discussed a million time ...... Car is a want not a need....

 

For (a million + 1) time, definition of "want" and "need" is vague, especially when those who can afford laughed at those who need and cannot afford that he just "wanted" and not "necessarily need". 

[Spring]

Let's not go into this need and want argument all over again cos it's endless as we all have different prerogatives.

 

What's a need for me maybe a want for you and vice versa. Let's just focus on the discussion at hand and also I know some guys have deep pockets so the call for $100k COE, $20 ERP, $30 car park etc is unnecessary to say the least cos this way only the rich can afford a car.

 

Govt has the moral and social responsibility to ensure that limited resources are distributed in as fair a way as reasonably possible so suggestions are always welcome which some have put forward in good faith, keep it up.

 

BTW, before I get rebutted to say that COE is not counted as a limited resource and that govt is not obliged to ensure we all have a car, my point is that yes that is true but as a responsible govt, you would want to ensure that citizens aspirations are reasonably met else you will get a frustrated electorate and the capable ones may decide to leave in order to fulfill their aspirations which would result in a drain of talent which our country so desperately need. That's why a holistic, big picture approach to this is needed which the general concept of COE is to a certain extent but fine tuning needed to see how this can be distributed even better, my 2 cents....  

[Forte3737]

It's technically simpler than what most people think. All you need is to remove the incentive to car dealers bidding coe, which in this case is car sales. A ruling that cars can only be bought when you have already obtained the COE will totally do the trick. With such a pre-requisite, no dealer would bother bidding COE on behalf of buyers because the deal has not been locked in.

 

To cut down under-the-table contracts of car sale without a coe, the key would be to penalize buyers who sign such contracts rather than dealers. Make it clear to all car owners that unlawful contracts would release the dealers from all liability arisen from the car.

Why should dealers be penalised when buyers are willing to pay high prices in the first place?

[Throttle2]

kiang ju hor, mai gek kiang :D

 

Yeah, this Srinivasan fella probably doesnt own a car

[Darryn]

It's technically simpler than what most people think. All you need is to remove the incentive to car dealers bidding coe, which in this case is car sales.  A ruling that cars can only be bought when you have already obtained the COE will totally do the trick. With such a pre-requisite, no dealer would bother bidding COE on behalf of buyers because the deal has not been locked in. 

 

To cut down under-the-table contracts of car sale without a coe, the key would be to penalize buyers who sign such contracts rather than dealers. Make it clear to all car owners that unlawful contracts would release the dealers from all liability arisen from the car. 

this would be extremely difficult to manage on the part of the dealer - 

 

Making their stock levels etc etc much harder to manage, the problem is the delivery lead time.  It takes around three months between a dealer ordering a car, and having it ready for delivery (with homolgation it can be longer) 

 

Would it really work if you don't give the dealer some freedom to manage to his stock by deciding on what they are willing to bid for COE? 

 

To my mind, the simplest way is simply to make it law that Car and COE are listed separately on sales agreement - in this way, can still "bundle" the price, but the car cost becomes much more transparent - if the dealer wants to discount the car to secure COE, that's on them, but the buyer pays specifically by what they mentioned 

[titarium]

this would be extremely difficult to manage on the part of the dealer - 

 

Making their stock levels etc etc much harder to manage, the problem is the delivery lead time.  It takes around three months between a dealer ordering a car, and having it ready for delivery (with homolgation it can be longer) 

 

Would it really work if you don't give the dealer some freedom to manage to his stock by deciding on what they are willing to bid for COE? 

 

To my mind, the simplest way is simply to make it law that Car and COE are listed separately on sales agreement - in this way, can still "bundle" the price, but the car cost becomes much more transparent - if the dealer wants to discount the car to secure COE, that's on them, but the buyer pays specifically by what they mentioned 

 

 

That could be the way as well , buyer bid own COE.

 

If there's a legislation that separate COE and car cost clearly , and buyer can determine the COE level they wish to pay , example:

 

Car Price : 60k 

COE : 50k ( lower than bidded value have to return to buyer )

COE Bidding Service Fee : 100-500 ?? 

 

Car loan have to handle differently then , it could be like housing loan to obtain a pre-approve sum , which tells a particular person maximum able to loan amount , so choosing any vehicle lower than that among will have the documents process . So for example my approve amount is 100 k , means I can buy anything <200k , I can choose a 160k car , 40k COE or even 120k car 80k COE .. or anything way lower than that. 

 

The current system allows the dealer to bid for buyer , COE drops they take in the earning , COE went too high they ask to top up, car user is still on the loosing end , the COE isn't very transparent in the process in between Buyer and Dealer. 

 

But this method may cause more stress to the current system , we will see more bids but alot of unsuccessful bids , better if the system shows break down of bids and it's value , then everyone can gauge each other's expectation. 

[Yeshe]

That could be the way as well , buyer bid own COE.

 

If there's a legislation that separate COE and car cost clearly , and buyer can determine the COE level they wish to pay , example:

 

Car Price : 60k 

COE : 50k ( lower than bidded value have to return to buyer )

COE Bidding Service Fee : 100-500 ?? 

 

Car loan have to handle differently then , it could be like housing loan to obtain a pre-approve sum , which tells a particular person maximum able to loan amount , so choosing any vehicle lower than that among will have the documents process . So for example my approve amount is 100 k , means I can buy anything <200k , I can choose a 160k car , 40k COE or even 120k car 80k COE .. or anything way lower than that. 

 

The current system allows the dealer to bid for buyer , COE drops they take in the earning , COE went too high they ask to top up, car user is still on the loosing end , the COE isn't very transparent in the process in between Buyer and Dealer. 

 

But this method may cause more stress to the current system , we will see more bids but alot of unsuccessful bids , better if the system shows break down of bids and it's value , then everyone can gauge each other's expectation. 

 

ai yah, all tok cock one. many agree with you, but it cannot be executed. u know, i know why   

 

 

 

[Wondertree]

Why should dealers be penalised when buyers are willing to pay high prices in the first place?

 

Which part of my reply gave your such impression? I believe I meant the opposite.

[Wondertree]

this would be extremely difficult to manage on the part of the dealer - 

 

Making their stock levels etc etc much harder to manage, the problem is the delivery lead time.  It takes around three months between a dealer ordering a car, and having it ready for delivery (with homolgation it can be longer) 

 

Would it really work if you don't give the dealer some freedom to manage to his stock by deciding on what they are willing to bid for COE? 

 

To my mind, the simplest way is simply to make it law that Car and COE are listed separately on sales agreement - in this way, can still "bundle" the price, but the car cost becomes much more transparent - if the dealer wants to discount the car to secure COE, that's on them, but the buyer pays specifically by what they mentioned 

 

I can't really see the causation. Current practice is that the wait for coe and the wait for car arrival is concurrent, let's say 2 months optimistically. Now separating coe and vehicle, the wait is still 2 months with the dealers for delivery. How long the buyers take to secure coe is none of dealers' business nor concern. 

 

It could actually be sweeter for dealers. Walk in customers could now decide on the spot and drive away their dream cars possibly the same day, which leads to more impulse purchase. Win-win haha..

[Fordred]

Huh? COE bidders are not paying for COE? Then who is paying?? All payments come from the buyer whether they pay directly by self-bid or paid inclusively into the price of the car. And i REALLY don't know what you mean the higher they bid, the more they earn from interest. What interest? For your info, they also make loss from COE. At the end of the day profit is profit. Even if buyers need to bid for their own COE, ADs can still increase their margin accordingly to sustain their profit level. How much profit do you think they can really make from COE. Seriously. They based their car price on the expected COE level - you can consistently see their price list risng and falling with COE more or less by the same amount of the change of COE. If they underprice they can't secure COE. If they overprice, their cars become too expensive. I am pretty sure the ADs will be more than happy to not have to bid COE for us. They don't need to keep on changing their selling price and do all kinds of projection/prediction of COE. No need to change price on a weekly basis. They can probably cut some headcount also. Life would be MUCH simpler for them, no?

 

Based on your example of COE as a % of OMV, so if 10,000 ppl all willing to pay the 200% of OMV then ALL 10,000 people will get the car?? COE is primarily a QUANTITY control system - the bidding part of it is to handle the ALLOCATION of the available COEs. If you fix the COE then how do you decide who to allocate the LIMITED number of COEs to the buyers? Lucky draw?

COE bidders now are the ADs and PIs lor.

How many car buyers actually bid themselves?

 

ADs want to bid for people. It's additional profit for them.

Why else would they charge a higher price if you walk into the showroom with a ready COE?

 

No. It's still bidding for COE. Everything remains same as now except that when you bid, you bid in % of omv rather than an absolute price you would pay.

This way, luxury car owners will pay more compare to BB car owners.

If AD push the price of COE higher, people will need to take a bigger loan amount, thus earn more from interest.

[keanie]

Thanks Alex..

Bro, though you cannot see ur successful bid in d "My Asset" it does not meant you will not get ur dream car. Due to some reason, ur AD didn't submit bid on ur behalf. He can still buy a Open Cat Coe from d market n transfer to ur name. Check with ur AD.