Subaru Legacy 2015

[BenTong]

The 2.5i NA is quick enough for Melbourne's road system. The 2.5i boxer engine and CVT is geared towards good performance in the low and mid range and adequate fuel economy. There is a noticeable lack of top end rush when driving the demo car (coming from a Honda Accord Euro with Honda's rev happy 2.4l K24A engine) but it was something not really missed with Melbourne's traffic.

 

So I guess the 2.0T would be a little too much for Singapore.

 

I have test driven Kia Optima 2.0T and although the engine has wonderful torque and would be great for the open roads I wouldn't want to drive with a 2.0T in Singapore's traffic (with noticeable turbo lag).

Turbo not for SG roads.. That's blasphemy! You should see the number of FXTs vs FNA on Sg roads bro.

[Civicblade]

Turbo not for SG roads.. That's blasphemy! You should see the number of FXTs vs FNA on Sg roads 

Turbocharged cars with 2litre and above engines are a little too much for congested and tightly speed monitored roads in Singapore. Doesn't mean they are a no no.. TC is here to stay. 

 

All I meant was 2.0T don't get a chance to stretch its legs in Singapore much (legally). You get up to the speed limit in a WRX or FXT within 6s (90km/h expressway limit), and maybe 3-4s to hit 60km/h (speed limit for most roads in Singapore). 

 

This is why the smaller turbos are getting so popular in Europe with 1.0T, 1.2T and 1.4T being the majority. Now that Japan is getting onto the turbo bandwagon with the 1.5T civic, 1.6T Pulsar, 1.6T Levorg etc.. Turbocharged cars are here to stay.. no doubt. 

 

The NSH is a great place to stretch the car's "legs". 

[Civicblade]

The Koreans (Hyundai/Kai) together with the Americans (Ford) and Germans (VW) are replacing their big capacity (3l and above) engines in their mid size sedans with smaller turbocharged units.

 

The Japanese are not following suit for their mid size sedans. You can still get the Legacy in 3.6 NA flat six, the Honda Accord in V6 3.5 and Altima in V6 3.5 as well. Mazda is the only Japanese manufacturer of mid size sedan that is sticking to its NA 4 pot 2.5l engine as the only option. According to some motoring journalist, this move is to cater to the US market where there are still many who adheres to the "no replacement for displacement" mantra. The reason why the Genesis luxury division spin off from Hyundai is doing well in the US with its 3.8 V6 and 5.0 V8. 

 

If you have a chance to test drive the Legacy 3.6R, you will know why it is still available. The flat six (unchanged from 5th gen legacy) is a sweet engine, it doesn't make a whole lot of peak power but it has a broad and linear torque curve that make driving effortless. It is quiet (at low and mid rpm), refine, smooth and vibration free. Coupled with AWD, the feeling from the package is really nice. If you get a chance to test drive the 3.6R, you will be addicted. It is very different from turbo charged cars. The NA 3.6 retains the linear power delivery that you will appreciate from a well engineered car and the gradual and predictable pull from tickover to redline is what makes me put the 3.6r firmly in my target for the next purchase.

 

The Honda accord V6 is another car with a great engine. The handling and FWD does make it a less desirable competitor to the legacy.

 

It is no wonder that Lexus IS350 (V6) is a higher end variant compared to the IS200T. The V6/H6 power delivery is super addictive. 

Edited June 15, 2016 by Civicblade

[Bird5011]

Received a letter from MI regarding 2015MY Legacy recall due to fault caused by VDC (Vehicle Dynamics Control) software.

reprogramming will take approximately 1 hour.

Any bro's here driving the 2015 model?

[BenTong]

Turbocharged cars with 2litre and above engines are a little too much for congested and tightly speed monitored roads in Singapore. Doesn't mean they are a no no.. TC is here to stay.

 

All I meant was 2.0T don't get a chance to stretch its legs in Singapore much (legally). You get up to the speed limit in a WRX or FXT within 6s (90km/h expressway limit), and maybe 3-4s to hit 60km/h (speed limit for most roads in Singapore).

 

This is why the smaller turbos are getting so popular in Europe with 1.0T, 1.2T and 1.4T being the majority. Now that Japan is getting onto the turbo bandwagon with the 1.5T civic, 1.6T Pulsar, 1.6T Levorg etc.. Turbocharged cars are here to stay.. no doubt.

 

The NSH is a great place to stretch the car's "legs".

True true bro.. But then I have seen many turbo charged/big horse power SG cars outrun by Kancils and Sagas. Your sincerely included.. Edited June 16, 2016 by BenTong

[Muser]

1200km more of engine break in to go.

 

Can't wait to rev the engine beyond 4000 rpm.

 

I am curious about the service interval in Singapore for Legacy. Is it 6 monthly? How much does it cost for a regular schedule service at Motor Image?

400km more for me to hit 1,600km.

 

I'm also looking forward to exploring our cars' behaviour between 4k rpm and the red line.

 

Service intervals here are 6-monthly after the 10k servicing (before that it's 5k and 1k). Happy to swap scans of my maintenance and warranty booklet with you if you're interested. I've already digitised everything.

 

Speaking of servicing, I did my 1k servicing earlier this week and am glad now to finally be using Subaru's recommended engine oil grade, 0W20, which I happily topped up S$80.50 for. Motul H-Tech 100 Plus, which is nothing fancy, just Motul's entry-level full synth (been around at least a decade but reformulated in 2011 to meet the SN/GF-5 standards, which is what our manuals specify). My SA says I'm the first customer to ever use 0W20, which I find really surprising. What oil are you using in Melbourne?

[Muser]

The 2.5i NA is quick enough for Melbourne's road system. The 2.5i boxer engine and CVT is geared towards good performance in the low and mid range and adequate fuel economy. There is a noticeable lack of top end rush when driving the demo car (coming from a Honda Accord Euro with Honda's rev happy 2.4l K24A engine) but it was something not really missed with Melbourne's traffic.

 

So I guess the 2.0T would be a little too much for Singapore.

 

I have test driven Kia Optima 2.0T and although the engine has wonderful torque and would be great for the open roads I wouldn't want to drive with a 2.0T in Singapore's traffic (with noticeable turbo lag).

I find the 2.5 NA flat four more than quick enough for Singapore's roads. I love the low and mid range torque, which is perfect for city driving. And I actually like the CVT and paddle shifters very much - lineatronic, to me, is the best of both worlds.

 

No top-end, eh? We'll find out soon. I hope it's cuz you compared to VTEC. Plus I'm not the most demanding driver so it might be sufficient for me. Eager to find out.

 

The lack of the 2.0T engines for the Optima and Sonata in Singapore are part of what made me choose the Legacy over them. I really like the fact that I'm getting the same engine as the rest of the world, which is relatively rare when it comes to Korean and Japanese models in Singapore.

[Muser]

The Koreans (Hyundai/Kai) together with the Americans (Ford) and Germans (VW) are replacing their big capacity (3l and above) engines in their mid size sedans with smaller turbocharged units.

 

The Japanese are not following suit for their mid size sedans. You can still get the Legacy in 3.6 NA flat six, the Honda Accord in V6 3.5 and Altima in V6 3.5 as well. Mazda is the only Japanese manufacturer of mid size sedan that is sticking to its NA 4 pot 2.5l engine as the only option. According to some motoring journalist, this move is to cater to the US market where there are still many who adheres to the "no replacement for displacement" mantra. The reason why the Genesis luxury division spin off from Hyundai is doing well in the US with its 3.8 V6 and 5.0 V8.

 

If you have a chance to test drive the Legacy 3.6R, you will know why it is still available. The flat six (unchanged from 5th gen legacy) is a sweet engine, it doesn't make a whole lot of peak power but it has a broad and linear torque curve that make driving effortless. It is quiet (at low and mid rpm), refine, smooth and vibration free. Coupled with AWD, the feeling from the package is really nice. If you get a chance to test drive the 3.6R, you will be addicted. It is very different from turbo charged cars. The NA 3.6 retains the linear power delivery that you will appreciate from a well engineered car and the gradual and predictable pull from tickover to redline is what makes me put the 3.6r firmly in my target for the next purchase.

 

The Honda accord V6 is another car with a great engine. The handling and FWD does make it a less desirable competitor to the legacy.

 

It is no wonder that Lexus IS350 (V6) is a higher end variant compared to the IS200T. The V6/H6 power delivery is super addictive.

Really sounds like you're set on that 3.6 flat six, and hearing you wax lyrical about it, I can imagine why.

 

I'm not sure I'd test drive the 3.6 even if I could though. I try not to test what I can't afford. Same applies to hi-fi. It's already bad enough when I'm a passenger in my friends' fancy rides (and listening to their fancy sound systems).

[Civicblade]

Speaking of servicing, I did my 1k servicing earlier this week and am glad now to finally be using Subaru's recommended engine oil grade, 0W20, which I happily topped up S$80.50 for. Motul H-Tech 100 Plus, which is nothing fancy, just Motul's entry-level full synth (been around at least a decade but reformulated in 2011 to meet the SN/GF-5 standards, which is what our manuals specify). My SA says I'm the first customer to ever use 0W20, which I find really surprising. What oil are you using in Melbourne?

Legacies here are using Subaru brand 0W20 engine. They should be fully synthetic oil as the oil change interval here is every 6 months or 12500km whichever comes first. 

 

The 0W20 engine oil is good for fuel economy and cold weather start up. 

 

The 3.6r has the first oil change at 3 months or 7500km and reverts to 6 monthly 12500km thereafter whereas the 2.5i is on the 6 monthly 12500km service interval from the start. 

[Civicblade]

Really sounds like you're set on that 3.6 flat six, and hearing you wax lyrical about it, I can imagine why.

 

I'm not sure I'd test drive the 3.6 even if I could though. I try not to test what I can't afford. Same applies to hi-fi. It's already bad enough when I'm a passenger in my friends' fancy rides (and listening to their fancy sound systems).

 

The 3.6r will be on my radar that's for sure. 

 

There are so many nice cars to consider. I am very keen on getting a warm/hot hatch or small sedan (WRX) to feel young again.. 

 

The Lexus IS200T is $55888 driveaway right now.. very tempting. I can get a 3.6R for $43k. Not sure if the Lexus is worth the $13k extra. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by Civicblade

[Muser]

Legacies here are using Subaru brand 0W20 engine. They should be fully synthetic oil as the oil change interval here is every 6 months or 12500km whichever comes first.

 

The 0W20 engine oil is good for fuel economy and cold weather start up.

 

The 3.6r has the first oil change at 3 months or 7500km and reverts to 6 monthly 12500km thereafter whereas the 2.5i is on the 6 monthly 12500km service interval from the start.

Sounds like the same Subaru-brand oil (I hear it's OEM from Idemitsu?) the US folks use, which doesn't seem to be available in Singapore. Lucky you. No extra effort or cost to conform to manual recommendations.

 

Fuel economy - yup, that what our manuals say, and that's what the Motul packaging says too. Which is one of the reasons I insisted on using it.

 

So you don't have a post break-in oil change? I know that's very common these days, especially among contis (my buddy's A3 first oil change is at 15k), but I'd still do it since the issue would be metal shavings and gunk, not oil degradation. But I know oil change intervals are a very personal (almost religious) thing so let me make it clear that's just my personal opinion.

The 3.6r will be on my radar that's for sure.

 

There are so many nice cars to consider. I am very keen on getting a warm/hot hatch or small sedan (WRX) to feel young again..

 

The Lexus IS200T is $55888 driveaway right now.. very tempting. I can get a 3.6R for $43k. Not sure if the Lexus is worth the $13k extra.

I must be nice to be spoilt for choice with many relatively affordable options. Go embrace mid-life crisis and get a WRX then, hahah! I've embraced uncle-hood. Or maybe it's just sour grapes that I can't afford a WRX or similar, heh.

 

I also dunno if the Lexus IS200T would be worth AUD$13k more but Lexus models really are wonderfully refined, and the latest designs are their nicest in years imho.

[Civicblade]

Go embrace mid-life crisis and get a WRX then, hahah! I've embraced uncle-hood. Or maybe it's just sour grapes that I can't afford a WRX or similar, heh.

 

I almost bought the WRX (base model manual) but Australia doesn't have any new ex-stock available. They are all sold out. The next batch is not even on order with Fuji Heavy Industry and the next batch will be manufacturer's model year 2017 batches. No one in Subaru Australia knows when they will be ordered for the Australian market. 

 

The WRX is very popular here in Australia and they don't have to discount this car for it to sell. From what I read on the internet, the WRX's sales are doing very well worldwide, their factory may be having problems meeting demand. If you drove one, it is easy to see why they are in demand. They are also available in automatic (younger drivers don't want or know how to drive stick) and not many small performance sedans or hot hatches are available in automatic (reliable auto, not VW DSG, not Ford's dual dry clutch). 

 

The driver in me wants the WRX, the uncle in me prefers the Legacy 3.6r. The rational in me went with the 2.5i. 

Edited June 19, 2016 by Civicblade

[Muser]

I almost bought the WRX (base model manual) but Australia doesn't have any new ex-stock available. They are all sold out. The next batch is not even on order with Fuji Heavy Industry and the next batch will be manufacturer's model year 2017 batches. No one in Subaru Australia knows when they will be ordered for the Australian market.

 

The WRX is very popular here in Australia and they don't have to discount this car for it to sell. From what I read on the internet, the WRX's sales are doing very well worldwide, their factory may be having problems meeting demand. If you drove one, it is easy to see why they are in demand. They are also available in automatic (younger drivers don't want or know how to drive stick) and not many small performance sedans or hot hatches are available in automatic (reliable auto, not VW DSG, not Ford's dual dry clutch).

 

The driver in me wants the WRX, the uncle in me prefers the Legacy 3.6r. The rational in me went with the 2.5i.

Oh it's very easy to understand why the WRX is in such demand. Such bang for buck. And direct competitors are fast going extinct or already history (Evo). As you point out, the CVT option makes it so accessible.

 

Turbocharged boxer engines... who doesn't want one? Even though I can't afford a WRX, I admit I gave the Levorg and FXT good long looks before embracing the spacious and comfortably chilled-out 2.5i-S NA uncle option. If I were in Melbourne, it's really hard to say if I'd have the rational restraint to choose the flat four over the flat six.

[Civicblade]

After driving the 2.5i for ~700km, I kind of feel that the sound proofing (windows and doors) of the legacy is not as good as the Prius V. The tires and engine noise from vehicles to my left and right are more noticeable in the Legacy. 

 

This is just a personal perception, not a scientific test on sound proofing. Anyway I am still happy with the power delivery and the handling of the Legacy vs the Prius. I am not so happy when I am the the petrol station. 

[Civicblade]

Sounds like the same Subaru-brand oil (I hear it's OEM from Idemitsu?) the US folks use, which doesn't seem to be available in Singapore. Lucky you. No extra effort or cost to conform to manual recommendations.

 

 

I have just found out that the Subaru dealers (with service centres) here in Australia are using Castrol Edge products for all Subarus. 

 

The 2.5i (FB engine) will be using Castrol Edge Fully Synthetic 0W-20 engine oil (not sure if it is normal or long life type). 

[Muser]

After driving the 2.5i for ~700km, I kind of feel that the sound proofing (windows and doors) of the legacy is not as good as the Prius V. The tires and engine noise from vehicles to my left and right are more noticeable in the Legacy.

 

This is just a personal perception, not a scientific test on sound proofing. Anyway I am still happy with the power delivery and the handling of the Legacy vs the Prius. I am not so happy when I am the the petrol station.

If the noise difference isn't that great, that's already a plus since we're talking about 250/50R18 performance-biased low-profile tyres (we get Dunlop Sport Maxx 050 here, what about you?) vs presumably much smaller ones with higher profile for your Prius.

 

I wonder if you'd benefit from a Clasani undercarriage coating like what MI offers here, to dampen noise (plus protect undercarriage, fight rust, etc). I've found it's made an audible difference to road noise (of course doesn't help with traffic to left and right). Or maybe wheel arch soundproofing, if it's really bugging you?

 

Of course you're less happy at the petrol station, how to compare? The again, how to avoid comparing cars within your own fleet, lol?

I have just found out that the Subaru dealers (with service centres) here in Australia are using Castrol Edge products for all Subarus.

 

The 2.5i (FB engine) will be using Castrol Edge Fully Synthetic 0W-20 engine oil (not sure if it is normal or long life type).

So Castrol Edge is what you're using? I'd happily use that, regardless of standard or long life since oil change intervals in Singapore are short. My envy still stands.

[Civicblade]

If the noise difference isn't that great, that's already a plus since we're talking about 250/50R18 performance-biased low-profile tyres (we get Dunlop Sport Maxx 050 here, what about you?) vs presumably much smaller ones with higher profile for your Prius.

 

 

I am not bothered about the noise that much. I would treat my experience as a compliment for the Prius V. It is a well put together 7 seater wagon that has superb fuel economy. I do notice that I tend to adjust the volume of the sound system more in the Legacy than the Prius V as the outside noise has a bigger impact on sound perception in the car. 

 

I don't mind the extra noise. I wish the hear more of the engine after run in. 

 

The Legacy here comes with Dunlop Sport Maxx as well. The wider and lower profile tires does create a whole different steering feel compared to the Prius V. 

 

The steering feel is a lot more direct on the Legacy and you get a lot more feedback. The steering however does feel a little notchy a low speed as such during parking or low speed maneuver. 

[Little_prince]

A new engine is broken in by following specific driving guidelines during the first few hours of its use. The focus of breaking in an engine is on the contact between the piston rings of the engine and the cylinder wall. There is no universal preparation or set of instructions for breaking in an engine. Most importantly, experts disagree on whether it is better to start engines on high or low power to break them in. While there are still consequences to an unsuccessful break-in, they are harder to quantify on modern engines than on older models. In general, people no longer break in the engines of their own vehicles after purchasing a car or motorcycle, because the process is done in production. It is still common, even today, to find that an owner's manual recommends gentle use at first (often specified as the first 500 or 1000 kilometers or miles). But it is usually only normal use without excessive demands that is specified, as opposed to light/limited use. For example, the manual will specify that the car be driven normally, but not in excess of the highway speed limit.

 

For many kinds of equipment (with automotive engines being the prime example), the time it takes to complete break-in procedures has decreased significantly from a number of days to a few hours, for several reasons.

The main reason is that the factories in which they are produced are now capable of better machining and assembly. For example, it is easier to hold tightertolerances now, and the average surface finish of a new cylinder wall has improved. Manufacturers decades ago were capable of such accuracy and precision, but not with as low a unit cost or with as much ease. Therefore, the average engine made today resembles, in some technical respects, the top-end custom work of back then. For some equipment, break-in is now done at the factory, obviating end-user break-in. This is advantageous for several reasons. It is a selling point with customers who don't want to have to worry about break-in and want full performance "right out of the box". And it also aligns with the fact that compliance rates are always uncertain in the hands of end users. As with medical compliance or regulatory compliance, an authority can give all the instructions it wants, but there is no guarantee that the end user will follow them.

The other reason for shorter break-in regimens today is that a greater amount of science has been applied to the understanding of break-in, and this has led to the realization that some of the old, long, painstaking break-in regimens were based on specious reasoning. People developed elaborate theories on what was needed and why, and it was hard to sift the empirical evidence in trying to test or confirm the theories. Anecdotal evidence and confirmation bias definitely played at least some part. Today engineers can confidently advise users not to put too much stock in old theories of long, elaborate break-in regimens. Some users will not give credence to the engineers and will stick to their own ideas anyway; but their careful break-in beliefs are still harmless and serve roughly like a placebo in allowing them to assure themselves that they've maximized the equipment's working lifespan through their due diligence.

 

 

If even the poverty pack gets the 18-inch alloys (unlike the base US trims) and Eyesight, that's darn good value.

 

As for breaking in the engine, I'd apply whatever your philosophy to breaking in your previous cars was.

 

To me, breaking in is to mate the metal surfaces in our engines along actual operating parameters, which would shear off whatever metal bits don't mate perfectly, and therefore ensure there's no further shearing throughout our ownership of the car, and guarantee good piston seals and consistent compression.

 

Assuming you agree with that aim, then I'd recommend - after your engine's completely warmed up - to drive as you'd normally drive, with the only constraint keeping below 4k rpm. I don't see how babying the car will achieve our break-in goals. Some people argue that we should take the philosophy to an extreme, and redline our cars during break-in, since actual usage will likely involve some redlining. My reply would be that I see no reason to go against my user manual.

 

Speaking of user manuals, my SE told me when I collected my car to keep "below 4,500 rpm". Between a sales guy and my manual, I'll listen to my manual, thank you very much.

 

In Singapore, I'd recommend that you drive in I or S modes most of the time, since you'll get a feel for the auto shift points and still be able to keep below 4k rpm (I've never busted it, but have managed to zhun zhun auto-shift at 4k rpm a few times, after ensuring my engine's warm and ready). But since you do so much highway driving, I'd say you probably have to go out of your way to ensure you car's driven along a wider range of speeds and rpms. So, maybe what you've been doing in manual mode is a good idea, in your case, at least for some of the time.

 

Even in Singapore, I've made it a point to use every feature of the car to make sure it's working, and to ensure that every aspect of my CVT's in good order, so I've also used the manual mode a bit, but what I usually do is simply use the paddle shifters in auto mode (in either I or S). I actually really like this way of driving because on a downward slope, I can downshift for engine braking, but when I get to the bottom, I can simply continue driving in auto mode without having to shift out of manual. In your case, you can use the paddle shifters to prevent busting 4k rpm while driving in auto mode. So, drive in auto mode, and the moment you see your tachometer nearing 4k rpm, just shift up using the right paddle - without shifting out of auto. You might find it the best of both worlds, just like I do.

 

Edited June 21, 2016 by Little_prince