Toyota Rush SFB 8288 C Kuailan Driver Destroys Bicycle

[Darryn]

IMO, a law should be introduce to regulate those that cyclist that want to convoy on public roads.

Permit must be applied with TP before hand and the convoy must be accompanied by mobile escorts (not TP but privatized mobile escorts).

 

This help to make the roads safer for all of road users be it drivers or cyclists.

 

What is convoy? 4 bikes? 10 Bikes? 20 Bikes?

 

I don't think workable - especially not for those that train for races or similar, the cost would be astronomical, and the logistics would be a total nightmare - unless you are able to license one of their "friends" on a permanent basis to be an outrider.

 

As to the idea of requiring registration for cyclists - not that it wouldn't be nice, but I can't and won't support it for a number of reasons..

1. Cost - those that use a bike for commuting already have a challenging enough financial environment without adding on the cost of such a scheme

2. Logistics - I can't imagine what would be involved in trying to track the ownership of a bike - the mind just boggles at the sheer logistics load this would create - especially when a bike can be purchased for only $80, trying to keep the records straight would be a nightmare. And then the updating requirements would be unimaginable - especially for the elderly, less literate, foreign workers etc.

3. It kinda destroys what a bike is all about

4. Any registration would be so open to abuse as to make it unmanageable - just as an example - the most efficient way to do this would be to have the rego on the bike when sold, but then what about people that add child seats that obscure the number - what are you going to do? Require them to go and pay a fee to have the plate moved? Require them to buy a new plate? it would simply be a nightmare.

[Pocus]

 

Most cyclist wear this kind of shoe that clips to the pedals of the bike so they won't slip while cycling fast. But they have to keep cycling else they will fall as the clip is difficult to unclip.

 

Maybe LTA should ban such shoes and pedal clips for safety reasons.

 

Then cyclists will not give the stupid reason that as an excuse to beat the red lights.

 

I'll dedication another clip of bicycle anarchy to this post.

 

Edited March 6, 2015 by Pocus

[1fast1]

I'll defecation another clip of bicycle anarchy to this post.

 

 

 

You *have* to love autocorrect!

[efssc]

What is convoy? 4 bikes? 10 Bikes? 20 Bikes?

 

I don't think workable - especially not for those that train for races or similar, the cost would be astronomical, and the logistics would be a total nightmare - unless you are able to license one of their "friends" on a permanent basis to be an outrider.

 

As to the idea of requiring registration for cyclists - not that it wouldn't be nice, but I can't and won't support it for a number of reasons..

1. Cost - those that use a bike for commuting already have a challenging enough financial environment without adding on the cost of such a scheme

2. Logistics - I can't imagine what would be involved in trying to track the ownership of a bike - the mind just boggles at the sheer logistics load this would create - especially when a bike can be purchased for only $80, trying to keep the records straight would be a nightmare. And then the updating requirements would be unimaginable - especially for the elderly, less literate, foreign workers etc.

3. It kinda destroys what a bike is all about

4. Any registration would be so open to abuse as to make it unmanageable - just as an example - the most efficient way to do this would be to have the rego on the bike when sold, but then what about people that add child seats that obscure the number - what are you going to do? Require them to go and pay a fee to have the plate moved? Require them to buy a new plate? it would simply be a nightmare.

 

Well said Bro! Wanted to praise you but can't, something about having to praise twelve other people before I can praise you again. But nonetheless, well said!

[Pocus]

 

You *have* to love autocorrect!

LOL you so fast before I edit. Off topic my swipe keyboard's autocorrect seemed to go haywire since the last update. I missed the older more intelligent version.

[1fast1]

LOL you so fast before I edit. Off topic my swipe keyboard's autocorrect seemed to go haywire since the last update. I missed the older more intelligent version.

 

I like the pre-edited version. Seems more appropriate to describe the sort of cyclist behaviour we're talking about.

[Mustank]

 

You *have* to love autocorrect!

 

nice bicyle racks

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt0V0_1MS0Q

[1fast1]

 

 

As to the idea of requiring registration for cyclists - not that it wouldn't be nice, but I can't and won't support it for a number of reasons..

1. Cost - those that use a bike for commuting already have a challenging enough financial environment without adding on the cost of such a scheme

2. Logistics - I can't imagine what would be involved in trying to track the ownership of a bike - the mind just boggles at the sheer logistics load this would create - especially when a bike can be purchased for only $80, trying to keep the records straight would be a nightmare. And then the updating requirements would be unimaginable - especially for the elderly, less literate, foreign workers etc.

3. It kinda destroys what a bike is all about

4. Any registration would be so open to abuse as to make it unmanageable - just as an example - the most efficient way to do this would be to have the rego on the bike when sold, but then what about people that add child seats that obscure the number - what are you going to do? Require them to go and pay a fee to have the plate moved? Require them to buy a new plate? it would simply be a nightmare.

 

None, and I mean *NONE* of these reasons hold water when you consider they can equally well be applied to any other road vehicles. Given that cars already have a RIDICULOUSLY byzantine tax, legislative and administrative maze to navigate, I don't see why a much simpler (and cheaper) system that nevertheless ensures full traceability and accountability cannot be applied to bicycles that are intended to be used on major roads.

 

it would be so much more honest if you (and other cyclists decrying the mooting of registration) just come out and admit to the obvious: you don't want it because it'll inconvenience you personally. You want preferential treatment on the road.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Turboflat4

[Darryn]

 

None, and I mean *NONE* of these reasons hold water when you consider they can equally well be applied to any other road vehicles. Given that cars already have a RIDICULOUSLY byzantine tax, legislative and administrative maze to navigate, I don't see why a much simpler (and cheaper) system that nevertheless ensures full traceability and accountability cannot be applied to bicycles that are intended to be used on major roads.

 

it would be so much more honest if you (and other cyclists decrying the mooting of registration) just come out and admit to the obvious: you don't want it because it'll inconvenience you personally. You want preferential treatment on the road.

Not true - a car, even without our stupid tax regime is $20k plus - a number plate is a very small proportion of that - of the order of $50 or maybe less.

 

But compare that to a bike - even if you could get it down to $10 for the plate, this is 1/8 of the cost of the bike - or 12.5% - how many amongst us would be willing to pay of the order $2,100 or $2,200 for a simple number plate for a car - before you even start to talk about the tracking.

 

And you haven't even talked about how the registration number is going to change -

Since coming to Singapore I have had 5 bikes, but only one car.

And what about foreign workers - you really think those shipyard worker type, live in a dorm are going to be updating bicycle registration details? Once the original owner has "gone home" what is going to happen to the bike - if you imagine the records are going to be updated you are dreaming.

 

So you are left with trying to punish people for riding a push bike not registered to them - in what way do you think that will work without creating all sorts of social inequity?

 

The idea of registering a bike is great - IF you're talking about those $5,000 tour de france types.

 

Where it will fall down is in the everyday users, the commuters, the school children riding to school, the foreign workers, the retired uncle and auntie who want transport.

 

It would be utopia if it worked - but the direct costs and social consequences of trying to implement far outweigh any logical benefits.

[Kusje]

What is convoy? 4 bikes? 10 Bikes? 20 Bikes?

 

I don't think workable - especially not for those that train for races or similar, the cost would be astronomical, and the logistics would be a total nightmare - unless you are able to license one of their "friends" on a permanent basis to be an outrider.

 

As to the idea of requiring registration for cyclists - not that it wouldn't be nice, but I can't and won't support it for a number of reasons..

1. Cost - those that use a bike for commuting already have a challenging enough financial environment without adding on the cost of such a scheme

2. Logistics - I can't imagine what would be involved in trying to track the ownership of a bike - the mind just boggles at the sheer logistics load this would create - especially when a bike can be purchased for only $80, trying to keep the records straight would be a nightmare. And then the updating requirements would be unimaginable - especially for the elderly, less literate, foreign workers etc.

3. It kinda destroys what a bike is all about

4. Any registration would be so open to abuse as to make it unmanageable - just as an example - the most efficient way to do this would be to have the rego on the bike when sold, but then what about people that add child seats that obscure the number - what are you going to do? Require them to go and pay a fee to have the plate moved? Require them to buy a new plate? it would simply be a nightmare.

 

1. Make it a token sum for registration like 10 dollars. The rest of the administration cost can be subsidised from road tax payers who I am sure will not mind.

2. Automation. All this can be computerised. Anyway, the registration should only be for bikes which are ridden on roads. You can buy a bike and not register it if you are just going to load it in your car and use it at east coast park

3. And what exactly is it about? Not being a responsible road user?

4. Nightmare? Just treat it the same way that you would treat a car with a blocked plate. Stop the fellow on the spot and detain him. How he manages his plate if he wants to add child seats or whatever is up to him.

[1fast1]

Not true - a car, even without our stupid tax regime is $20k plus - a number plate is a very small proportion of that - of the order of $50 or maybe less.

 

But compare that to a bike - even if you could get it down to $10 for the plate, this is 1/8 of the cost of the bike - or 12.5% - how many amongst us would be willing to pay of the order $2,100 or $2,200 for a simple number plate for a car - before you even start to talk about the tracking.

 

And you haven't even talked about how the registration number is going to change -

Since coming to Singapore I have had 5 bikes, but only one car.

And what about foreign workers - you really think those shipyard worker type, live in a dorm are going to be updating bicycle registration details? Once the original owner has "gone home" what is going to happen to the bike - if you imagine the records are going to be updated you are dreaming.

 

So you are left with trying to punish people for riding a push bike not registered to them - in what way do you think that will work without creating all sorts of social inequity?

 

The idea of registering a bike is great - IF you're talking about those $5,000 tour de france types.

 

Where it will fall down is in the everyday users, the commuters, the school children riding to school, the foreign workers, the retired uncle and auntie who want transport.

 

It would be utopia if it worked - but the direct costs and social consequences of trying to implement far outweigh any logical benefits.

 

Very convenient to talk about relative cost when the absolute cost is so low (why can't that "logic" be used to reduce the COE price for cheap China cars, for instance?). And when we're talking about the Lycra Legion riding their CF frame bikes, a few dollars will be a drop in the ocean. But even conceding your point about FWs etc., they can either be charged an especially low rate, or the employing company can be asked to bear it (and be legally responsible for ensuring ownership is properly transferred and updated in gahmen records, etc.)

 

Heck, I don't even mind if cyclists didn't have to pay for the registration, and motorists indirectly subsidised the cost of the compulsory registration. I'm sure anyone who can afford a car in Singapore won't begrudge an extra 10 bucks a year just so that the sodding cyclists (not all of them, just the black sheep) who make our daily driving a misery can be held to account. But again, this calls into the question the whole "social equitability" aspect - some motorists may ask why they should (in principle) pay even a bit for cyclists? All I know is that I won't personally oppose such a move - I'd rather pay a tad more to hold cyclists fully accountable on the roads.

 

BTW, FWs in dorms are not as stupid as you seem to think they are (or make them out to be). I see pretty much all of them holding on to quite fancy cell phones and IDD calling cards, etc. Do you think there's no basic intelligence required to go to a telco provider and purchase (and register, with an ID document) a prepaid card? Do you think they are too dumb to understand the exact terms of use of their cards, the expiry, the mode of top-ups etc.? I also see many FWs with local bank accounts, which are even more complicated to apply for and maintain, yet they seem to have no problems with it. Come off it, Darryn! Where there's a will, there'll be a way!!

 

I've already said that registration need only apply to cycles plying the major roads. Bikes strictly ridden by kids in residential areas, etc. will be exempt, as will any bike ridden only on the PCN, dedicated cycling paths or public roads with a low limit (mainly residential roads). And no children should be riding on major roads with fast moving vehicles (including heavy vehicles). Memories of that grisly scene with the young teenage boys lying on the road with the contents of their heads splattered all over the road still haunt me.

 

Adult commuters using bikes to get to work and back on the major roads DO need registration.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Turboflat4

[Adrianli]

What is convoy? 4 bikes? 10 Bikes? 20 Bikes?

 

In SG, gathering of more than 4 person is already considered illegal assembly. Mata can come and question.

 

 

Enforcement wise....................... depends on who are the four person gathering.

[Darryn]

 

Very convenient to talk about relative cost when the absolute cost is so low (why can't that "logic" be used to reduce the COE price for cheap China cars, for instance?). And when we're talking about the Lycra Legion riding their CF frame bikes, a few dollars will be a drop in the ocean. But even conceding your point about FWs etc., they can either be charged an especially low rate, or the employing company can be asked to bear it (and be legally responsible for ensuring ownership is properly transferred and updated in gahmen records, etc.)

 

Heck, I don't even mind if cyclists didn't have to pay for the registration, and motorists indirectly subsidised the cost of the compulsory registration. I'm sure anyone who can afford a car in Singapore won't begrudge an extra 10 bucks a year just so that the sodding cyclists (not all of them, just the black sheep) who make our daily driving a misery can be held to account. But again, this calls into the question the whole "social equitability" aspect - some motorists may ask why they should (in principle) pay even a bit for cyclists? All I know is that I won't personally oppose such a move - I'd rather pay a tad more to hold cyclists fully accountable on the roads.

 

BTW, FWs in dorms are not as stupid as you seem to think they are (or make them out to be). I see pretty much all of them holding on to quite fancy cell phones and IDD calling cards, etc. Do you think there's no basic intelligence required to go to a telco provider and purchase (and register, with an ID document) a prepaid card? Do you think they are too dumb to understand the exact terms of use of their cards, the expiry, the mode of top-ups etc.? I also see many FWs with local bank accounts, which are even more complicated to apply for and maintain, yet they seem to have no problems with it. Come off it, Darryn! Where there's a will, there'll be a way!!

 

I've already said that registration need only apply to cycles plying the major roads. Bikes strictly ridden by kids in residential areas, etc. will be exempt, as will any bike ridden only on the PCN, dedicated cycling paths or public roads with a low limit (mainly residential roads). And no children should be riding on major roads with fast moving vehicles (including heavy vehicles). Memories of that grisly scene with the young teenage boys lying on the road with the contents of their heads splattered all over the road still haunt me.

 

Adult commuters using bikes to get to work and back on the major roads DO need registration.

It's not that the foreign workers are "too dumb".

 

A very good proportion can and will manage it no problem -

BUT (there's always a but right?) it only takes a small proportion to get it wrong, to be incapable, to be bo-chap before the whole scheme becomes unweildy -

 

And given the record and attitude of Singapore employers you really wanna make them responsible for bicycle registration?

 

Furthermore - you say that "if only ride on PCN..." - the problem with bikes is that the situation is far more fluid than that - my nephew has a bike - he only rides it on the PCN, if I want to borrow it one day to ride to work...then how? Cannot right? That seems rather ..... insane.

 

I grew up using bikes a certain way, they are a great way to get around, the idea of licensing this way seems overly restrictive, and....draconian.

 

We don't need more rules - we need more patience on all sides of the equation.

 

Now - if you want to tell me that you want to try and control the "loony lycra muttonheads" riding in a peloton - let's look specifically at that. Maybe they can be required to be members of a club? Or have to carry some form of membership card if the group is over a certain size?

 

One thing that holds me back on the registration front - are the benefits big enough to justify the cost, inconvenience and the problems it's going to cause - I just can't see it. How many accidents that cause damage to innocent road users (eg - pedestrians) are caused by bikes? Have you got any numbers, or perhaps value to assign to how much damage is caused by bikes that don't obey traffic regulations?

 

It won't be difficult to get numbers on how much damage is caused by cars running red lights - how much is caused by cyclists running red lights?

 

Same thing for failure to give way.

[Vulcann]

It's not that the foreign workers are "too dumb".

 

A very good proportion can and will manage it no problem -

BUT (there's always a but right?) it only takes a small proportion to get it wrong, to be incapable, to be bo-chap before the whole scheme becomes unweildy -

 

And given the record and attitude of Singapore employers you really wanna make them responsible for bicycle registration?

 

Furthermore - you say that "if only ride on PCN..." - the problem with bikes is that the situation is far more fluid than that - my nephew has a bike - he only rides it on the PCN, if I want to borrow it one day to ride to work...then how? Cannot right? That seems rather ..... insane.

 

I grew up using bikes a certain way, they are a great way to get around, the idea of licensing this way seems overly restrictive, and....draconian.

 

We don't need more rules - we need more patience on all sides of the equation.

 

Now - if you want to tell me that you want to try and control the "loony lycra muttonheads" riding in a peloton - let's look specifically at that. Maybe they can be required to be members of a club? Or have to carry some form of membership card if the group is over a certain size?

 

One thing that holds me back on the registration front - are the benefits big enough to justify the cost, inconvenience and the problems it's going to cause - I just can't see it. How many accidents that cause damage to innocent road users (eg - pedestrians) are caused by bikes? Have you got any numbers, or perhaps value to assign to how much damage is caused by bikes that don't obey traffic regulations?

 

It won't be difficult to get numbers on how much damage is caused by cars running red lights - how much is caused by cyclists running red lights?

 

Same thing for failure to give way.

 

What you saying is basically a little bit more understanding from all stake-holders.

[Soya]

 

I've already said that registration need only apply to cycles plying the major roads. Bikes strictly ridden by kids in residential areas, etc. will be exempt, as will any bike ridden only on the PCN, dedicated cycling paths or public roads with a low limit (mainly residential roads). And no children should be riding on major roads with fast moving vehicles (including heavy vehicles). Memories of that grisly scene with the young teenage boys lying on the road with the contents of their heads splattered all over the road still haunt me.

 

Adult commuters using bikes to get to work and back on the major roads DO need registration.

 

 

Simple....if wanna hv the right to use public roads, the vehicle - whether motorised or leotard-powered, has to be registered and insured like any other vehicle on the road.

 

Want to use road space, want others to respect traffic rules for them, but they are unregistered, uninsured, run red lights, talk big abt respect but always picking fight wif motorists........Simi wif all this double standard?

 

If the leotards find registration and insurance too much work, then use the PCN.

[Jungus]

 

Most cyclist wear this kind of shoe that clips to the pedals of the bike so they won't slip while cycling fast. But they have to keep cycling else they will fall as the clip is difficult to unclip.

 

Maybe LTA should ban such shoes and pedal clips for safety reasons.

 

Then cyclists will not give the stupid reason that as an excuse to beat the red lights.

 

I'll dedication another clip of bicycle anarchy to this post.

 

my, this is a fast driver...!

[Darryn]

 

What you saying is basically a little bit more understanding from all stake-holders.

Yep :-)

 

It's not that I think registration is a "bad" thing.

 

I just think that the costs, the inefficiency and the problems are far greater than the benefits.

 

It seems to me you will create more problems than you will solve - and the problems that it will solve can be equally well addressed by a bit of understanding, care and co-operation.

[Vid]

 

nice bicyle racks

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt0V0_1MS0Q

 

I want to ride one too