2015 Secondary School Ranking

[Nzy]

Pie shrinking liao

Those that can get employed by rich parents will huat to the max

Bottom no pie

 

Now even the international school students also got tuition. Lol. My uncle's students mainly from international schools. 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2016 by Nzy

[Mustank]

Now even the international school students also got tuition. Lol. My uncle's students mainly from international schools.

Rich uncle spotted

[Ender]

Despite secondary schools entries are by merit, data are showing higher economioc social status has more going to IP or top schools. I guess enrichment class or educated parents who bother to with the kids school works helps.

 

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/education/study-kids-from-affluent-families-more-likely-in-ip-gep-schools

 

 

Study: Kids from affluent families more likely in IP, GEP schools

Amelia Teng

 

Children from higher socio-economic backgrounds are more likely to attend Integrated Programme (IP) secondary schools and their affiliated primary schools, as well as those that offer the Gifted Education Programme (GEP).

This was a key finding of a recent study that examined class stratification in schools and if students from different schools had different levels of educational aspirations.

The study was done by Ms Ong Xiang Ling, its principal investigator who is a Singapore Children's Society research officer, and Dr Cheung Hoi Shan, a post-doctoral fellow at the National University of Singapore.

Their work pointed to a disproportionate number of students from affluent backgrounds in IP and GEP schools.

In the study, schools were divided into three groups and about 200 students from each group were polled. Type 1 were IP schools, their affiliated primary schools, as well as primary schools which offered the GEP. Type 2 were government-aided schools and autonomous schools which did not offer the IP, and Type 3 were government schools.

 

 

Data showed that nearly 41 per cent of Type 1 secondary school students came from families with a monthly household income that exceeded $10,000, compared to 7 per cent in Type 3 schools. About 31 per cent of Type 1 students lived in private homes, compared to 2 per cent in Type 3. About 54 per cent of Type 1 students had at least one parent with university education, compared to 17 per cent in Type 3.

ST_20160601_AMSCHOOL_2333116.jpg

Related Story

Students in IP schools more confident of getting at least a university degree

The fact that there is a significant disparity in secondary schools, where entry is supposed to be by merit, points to a possible perpetuation of class differences in schools, said the researchers. Dr Cheung said: "The observation from many news reports... does point to some form of social stratification in our schools; so in elite schools you tend to have families represented by higher socio-economic status (SES) and in other neighbourhood schools you tend to have the reverse."

She added: "We see SES differences also in secondary schools, where entry is supposed to be determined in large part by the children's results in the PSLE. Entry is not about distance or alumni associations, yet we also see marked SES differences in elite secondary schools. So it may point to a perpetuation - if you started off with high SES, chances are because you have more resources, you are better prepared for PSLE, so you are more likely to get into good secondary schools."

Said Ms Ong: "Higher SES children are more likely to be in Type 1 schools, and being in Type 1 schools makes them more likely to have high confidence in attaining at least a university degree. Then it would mean that there could be a perpetuation of class differences, because research has shown that if you have high confidence of attaining a university degree, you are more likely to actually get a university degree."

Amelia Teng

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2016 by Ender

[Little_prince]

 

Children from higher socio-economic backgrounds are more likely to attend Integrated Programme (IP) secondary schools and their affiliated primary schools, as well as those that offer the Gifted Education Programme (GEP).

This was a key finding of a recent study that examined class stratification in schools and if students from different schools had different levels of educational aspirations.

The study was done by Ms Ong Xiang Ling, its principal investigator who is a Singapore Children's Society research officer, and Dr Cheung Hoi Shan, a post-doctoral fellow at the National University of Singapore.

Their work pointed to a disproportionate number of students from affluent backgrounds in IP and GEP schools.

In the study, schools were divided into three groups and about 200 students from each group were polled. Type 1 were IP schools, their affiliated primary schools, as well as primary schools which offered the GEP. Type 2 were government-aided schools and autonomous schools which did not offer the IP, and Type 3 were government schools.

 

 

Data showed that nearly 41 per cent of Type 1 secondary school students came from families with a monthly household income that exceeded $10,000, compared to 7 per cent in Type 3 schools. About 31 per cent of Type 1 students lived in private homes, compared to 2 per cent in Type 3. About 54 per cent of Type 1 students had at least one parent with university education, compared to 17 per cent in Type 3.

ST_20160601_AMSCHOOL_2333116.jpg

Related Story

Students in IP schools more confident of getting at least a university degree

The fact that there is a significant disparity in secondary schools, where entry is supposed to be by merit, points to a possible perpetuation of class differences in schools, said the researchers. Dr Cheung said: "The observation from many news reports... does point to some form of social stratification in our schools; so in elite schools you tend to have families represented by higher socio-economic status (SES) and in other neighbourhood schools you tend to have the reverse."

She added: "We see SES differences also in secondary schools, where entry is supposed to be determined in large part by the children's results in the PSLE. Entry is not about distance or alumni associations, yet we also see marked SES differences in elite secondary schools. So it may point to a perpetuation - if you started off with high SES, chances are because you have more resources, you are better prepared for PSLE, so you are more likely to get into good secondary schools."

Said Ms Ong: "Higher SES children are more likely to be in Type 1 schools, and being in Type 1 schools makes them more likely to have high confidence in attaining at least a university degree. Then it would mean that there could be a perpetuation of class differences, because research has shown that if you have high confidence of attaining a university degree, you are more likely to actually get a university degree."

 

 

 

i feel quite sad when i read this article. because i have always been very proud of the singaporean educational system. 

 

coming from a family of hawkers, taxi drivers and salesman in my parent's generation. within 20 years we have progressed into a generation of managers, bankers, doctors and engineers. Almost every single one of my cousins has a degree with a decent job. All within one generation.

 

now it's almost as if we have regressed. Elitism is creeping in.

 

will we ever see a minister like General Kee Chiu who have come from humble beginnings in a one room flat that rose to become chief of Army and Minister?I like him. i really do. because he shown us that poor kids can also make good one day. and that Singapore is truly a meritocracy.

 

 

 

 

Judging by the the way things are going, the elite is getting to be more elite. the poor will have more uphill struggles.

 

my main concern is that the new breed of elite may not have the empathy for the people, not having been poor and having gone hungry before.

 

hopefully i'm wrong. but from the few i have seen, i'm not hopeful.

 

haiz.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Little_prince

[Jman888]

continue from here 

 

the nature of discussion will be the same in that thread.

[Ender]

continue from here  http://www.mycarforum.com/topic/2697353-2015-secondary-school-ranking/page-9?do=findComment&comment=5838503

 

the nature of discussion will be the same in that thread.

I also posted this article in another thread, you can delete the my other post.

[Little_prince]

Despite secondary schools entries are by merit, data are showing higher economioc social status has more going to IP or top schools. I guess enrichment class or educated parents who bother to with the kids school works helps.

 

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/education/study-kids-from-affluent-families-more-likely-in-ip-gep-schools

 

i guess one thing is that rich kids vs poor kids is that rich kids have more of a safety net.

 

for example. for rich kids. at every stage. PSLE, O level , A Level, University etc. they have options.

 

if psle don't do well. can go private school. A level don't do well can go overseas uni. they have a safety net. they have options.

 

for poor kids, they don't have any safety net. at every stage. they have only ONE shot. if they fail or just simply just don't well enough, they're out of the game. they're forced to drop out to work. and that's the end for them.

 

that's the main difference.

[Ender]

i guess one thing is that rich kids vs poor kids is that rich kids have more of a safety net.

 

for example. for rich kids. at every stage. PSLE, O level , A Level, University etc. they have options.

 

if psle don't do well. can go private school. A level don't do well can go overseas uni. they have a safety net. they have options.

 

for poor kids, they don't have any safety net. at every stage. they have only ONE shot. if they fail or just simply just don't well enough, they're out of the game. they're forced to drop out to work. and that's the end for them.

 

that's the main difference.

The data is showing, even in PSLE scores, the higher social status kids are doing better. And I think it's the rich can afford private tutors, and the educated parents that bother with their kids schools work.

When I was coaching my son in Math, Science, though the school has taught what is needed for the exams, the kids might not have learnt or master it. Extra practice and drilling is needed for the average kids. 

That's where kids of low educated parent lose out, except if their kids are bright like the NG Chee Meng and his 2 other brothers.

[Icemaiden]

Singapore education system is becoming more and more elitist. Whoever education minister who started the IP program and the DSA should be shot. The IP program has made the PSLE the single most important exam in a person's life because if a child can do well in PSLE or better still use some subjective measures to get through with DSA, they are guaranteed a path with an elite school all the way to JC without taking any O levels - which is arguable the most difficult exams with 9 - 10 subjects. Now all the top JCs have reserved the majority of their spaces for the IP students, with those taking the O levels route getting more and more difficult to get into a JC.

 

So parents esp the rich and kiasu ones found easy ways to game the system - send the children to enrichment classes, send them for DSA preparation and tuition etc. It's not that tough to train a child to do well for PSLE with only 4 subjects. But it's a different ball game for the O Levels. So they get the child to go for tuition to spot essay questions and memorise answers, etc. - voila the child does well enough get through DSA or go direct IP route while denying others who do not have the same rigorous training (who might be smarter) a space in higher education.

 

The worst thing is - now our new education ministers are making the criteria for admission EVEN MORE SUBJECTIVE. In the past, no matter rich or poor, everyone goes for the same exam and placed under pressure in the exam hall - this is fair - whoever who does better gets admitted to school of choice - doesn't matter if you're rich or poor. This is a social leveller. NOW, students go through DSAs - look at their "projects" which many times can be done by external help or through copying from the internet, or through some "talents" by sending for enrichment classes. It has become much easier for rich parents to game the system. I am not surprised now the "good" schools are full of rich kids. 

Edited June 1, 2016 by Icemaiden

[Jman888]

The society can never only have politicians and scholars. In fact, it is not even directly related to how well they do in school.

 

Sometimes it is hard not to think how dangerous it can be for our society to be obsessed with top schools and scholarships, producing people who only thinks in one way.

 

How will this help our society stay resilient when geo-political situations is changing quickly ? There will never be a book on the dynamics of power balance.

 

Having said that, I've seen how some of the younger teachers are now more encouraging toward students who may not do well in exams but are brilliant in team work and projects. Other teachers will just tell you to take tuition. At the end of the day, they still have to follow the MOE system which is excel in exams, go to good schools.

 

Most other countries go to schools near homes.

 

 

maybe can start a military school so can have balance of scholar and worrier like in olden days      

[Little_prince]

maybe can start a military school so can have balance of scholar and worrier like in olden days

Other people got West Point. We only got Jurong Point

[Lala81]

maybe can start a military school so can have balance of scholar and worrier like in olden days      

 

already got sports school and SOTA liao mah.

And Pathlight etc 

 

My BIL is working in a school where the kids would have been deemed to fail PSLE in the past.

Singapore education system is becoming more and more elitist. Whoever education minister who started the IP program and the DSA should be shot. The IP program has made the PSLE the single most important exam in a person's life because if a child can do well in PSLE or better still use some subjective measures to get through with DSA, they are guaranteed a path with an elite school all the way to JC without taking any O levels - which is arguable the most difficult exams with 9 - 10 subjects. Now all the top JCs have reserved the majority of their spaces for the IP students, with those taking the O levels route getting more and more difficult to get into a JC.

 

So parents esp the rich and kiasu ones found easy ways to game the system - send the children to enrichment classes, send them for DSA preparation and tuition etc. It's not that tough to train a child to do well for PSLE with only 4 subjects. But it's a different ball game for the O Levels. So they get the child to go for tuition to spot essay questions and memorise answers, etc. - voila the child does well enough get through DSA or go direct IP route while denying others who do not have the same rigorous training (who might be smarter) a space in higher education.

 

The worst thing is - now our new education ministers are making the criteria for admission EVEN MORE SUBJECTIVE. In the past, no matter rich or poor, everyone goes for the same exam and placed under pressure in the exam hall - this is fair - whoever who does better gets admitted to school of choice - doesn't matter if you're rich or poor. This is a social leveller. NOW, students go through DSAs - look at their "projects" which many times can be done by external help or through copying from the internet, or through some "talents" by sending for enrichment classes. It has become much easier for rich parents to game the system. I am not surprised now the "good" schools are full of rich kids. 

 

actually the intent of IP was good.

Remove the O levels to allow kids not to focus on too many major exams.

Os then As shortly after that. 

 

But everything kana perverted into worsening elitism.

 

 

Edited June 1, 2016 by Lala81

[Icemaiden]

I don't think so. I think "O Levels" gives one a broader education - during my time, many of us take "hard-to-score" subjects like Literature during O Levels. Well, you take 10 subjects but choose 6 for inclusion. so it does not matter if you do not-too-well in some subjects. Now, with all these IP when the "brightest" can skip "O" Levels and go directly to "A" Level Sciences, who takes Literature anymore? Just study for the 4 A levels subjects of maths and sciences and econs. And I think 16 years old is a better age to test one's abilities, not 12.

 

But we can't blame the parents. the culture of fear of "losing", fear of "failure" is passed down from our leaders, who are unforgiving of people who take a different path. Didn't Chan Chun Sing wrote a forum piece to mock at Chee Soon Juan's failures in life? When people fail, we laugh at them. We don't like alternative views or people who take different path. Such attitudes make us afraid of failing and want out children to take the "safe" path, like do well in school, get PSC scholarship etc. It is no wonder despite always doing so well in international exams (e.g. the "project-based" IB where we are always tops in the WORLD because anything project-based we game the system), we never produce any remarkable inventors or creators. We are only good at training the kids do well in exam and game the exam system - nothing else.

 

For our education system to work -  a lot of things have to change. First, our govt attitudes towards people who are different and who take a different path, including alternative parties. Our govt and society attitudes towards "failures" has to change; remove all IP and DSA programs to make admission to choice schools more objective, make the PSLE less stressful by removing all IP programs which means not doing well in PSLE means u still hv a second chance at O levels, reinstate "O" levels for ALL STUDENTS to give them a broader and more holistic education etc.

 

already got sports school and SOTA liao mah.

And Pathlight etc 

 

My BIL is working in a school where the kids would have been deemed to fail PSLE in the past.

 

actually the intent of IP was good.

Remove the O levels to allow kids not to focus on too many major exams.

Os then As shortly after that. 

 

But everything kana perverted into worsening elitism.

 

[Nzy]

Singapore education system is becoming more and more elitist. Whoever education minister who started the IP program and the DSA should be shot. The IP program has made the PSLE the single most important exam in a person's life because if a child can do well in PSLE or better still use some subjective measures to get through with DSA, they are guaranteed a path with an elite school all the way to JC without taking any O levels - which is arguable the most difficult exams with 9 - 10 subjects. Now all the top JCs have reserved the majority of their spaces for the IP students, with those taking the O levels route getting more and more difficult to get into a JC.

 

So parents esp the rich and kiasu ones found easy ways to game the system - send the children to enrichment classes, send them for DSA preparation and tuition etc. It's not that tough to train a child to do well for PSLE with only 4 subjects. But it's a different ball game for the O Levels. So they get the child to go for tuition to spot essay questions and memorise answers, etc. - voila the child does well enough get through DSA or go direct IP route while denying others who do not have the same rigorous training (who might be smarter) a space in higher education.

 

The worst thing is - now our new education ministers are making the criteria for admission EVEN MORE SUBJECTIVE. In the past, no matter rich or poor, everyone goes for the same exam and placed under pressure in the exam hall - this is fair - whoever who does better gets admitted to school of choice - doesn't matter if you're rich or poor. This is a social leveller. NOW, students go through DSAs - look at their "projects" which many times can be done by external help or through copying from the internet, or through some "talents" by sending for enrichment classes. It has become much easier for rich parents to game the system. I am not surprised now the "good" schools are full of rich kids. 

 

I thought the DSA was good at helping children who are not so good at studying enter good schools based on their other talents. I have friends with L1R5 of 15 who got into RJC cuz of DSA. Without DSA, they might have chosen to give up the sport they were interested in to ensure they can get into a better school.

[Jman888]

I thought the DSA was good at helping children who are not so good at studying enter good schools based on their other talents. I have friends with L1R5 of 15 who got into RJC cuz of DSA. Without DSA, they might have chosen to give up the sport they were interested in to ensure they can get into a better school.

 

 

those are like mercenary go in just to play sport and get medals for the school. The student has to put in 400% in order to catch up with the studies as they spend more than half the time training in school and participating in  competitions.

[Vratenza]

Reminds me of the American phenomenon of under privileged talented black basketball players using basketball as a ticket to scholarship college....and most of their aim is to get talent spotted during their college basketball seasons and get into NBA rather than getting a real college education.

 

I thought the DSA was good at helping children who are not so good at studying enter good schools based on their other talents. I have friends with L1R5 of 15 who got into RJC cuz of DSA. Without DSA, they might have chosen to give up the sport they were interested in to ensure they can get into a better school.

 

[Ender]

those are like mercenary go in just to play sport and get medals for the school. The student has to put in 400% in order to catch up with the studies as they spend more than half the time training in school and participating in  competitions.

In this way a elite school academic ranking will be lowered   . One day all schools will be the same.

[Vratenza]

I guess you were away from Singapore, let me update you on the official stand:

 

In this way a elite school academic ranking will be lowered   . One day all schools will be the same.