Columbarium issue sparks calls for flat refunds

[Mustank]

  On 1/6/2015 at 12:52 AM, Jman888 said:

 

 

is not new, maybe is good to buy it now for ourselves before the price goes up million dollar

 

i didn't check Nirvana Memorial (happen to be quite big in malaysia if you travel NSHW and you get to see the big property they have up the hill before reaching KL), but i think the price is one time charge and no annual maintenance fee or other fees.

 

must as well go for menorial diamonds

cremate the body, send the ashes to company, get memorial diamond

tiagong about $5000

 

 

got local company doing

http://www.algordanza.sg/

 

but i think the most super is to keep the person's subconciousness alive

[Wt_know]

punggol got Punggol 21 big plan

and now waterfront living

punggol huat ah ... hdb 4-room already selling $600k-$700k

 

  On 1/6/2015 at 1:21 AM, Voodooman said:

Yes, I am not disputing the fact that both estates have malls which will require most residents to travel a little to get there. however, in Punggol, every block of flats are build around a mini neighbourhood center (with coffeeshop, supermarket and some retail outlets), so in terms of accessibility (walking distance), it is much better than SK. SK has it as well but the neighbourhood centers supports a larger area, which keeps people at home.

 

Punggol may end up with more malls than SK in the future once it is fully developed.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Wt_know

[Darryn]

  On 1/6/2015 at 1:24 AM, Jman888 said:

 

 

if it is a pte ltd, then it will be subjected to the company law and you can see the book. you can report to CPIB if you find something unusual.

 

if you are referring to just a Columbarium (not a temple), it is 'freehold' and usually no other maintenance fee, it would have other business activities to support the operating costs, like holding ceremonies for 7th month, qing ming, etc.

That still doesn't address the core question though does it?

 

According to reports, a "religious entity" is supposed to be a registered charity because of the nature of what they do - which is perfectly fine, you make donations, it goes towards the work of the temple / church / mosque (whatever)

 

Here - the temple is built / managed by someone with a "profit motive" - so the question then becomes, how much "profit" goes back to the owners, and how much money goes towards the "temple activity"? This is what I am curious about - one thing you can be sure of is that it has been considered by the authorities, and that they have addressed this seeming contradiction in the awarding of the contract to a Pte Ltd to build and manage a Temple.

 

I am curious as to how it has been addressed - will the Pte Ltd become a Landlord? Will they get a fee / commission payment for each worshipper? What exactly is the business model? It doesn't seem to make logical sense for them to simply be a landlord and sublet the space to one of the registered religious societies does it?

[Voodooman]

  On 1/6/2015 at 1:26 AM, Wt_know said:

punggol got Punggol 21 big plan

and now waterfront living

punggol huat ah ... hdb 4-room already selling $600k-$700k

 

 

Must be with good view, otherwise why pay 600-700k for a 4R flat in Punggol.

 

No malice to Punggol residents but the location sucks. I have a friend living in Punggol and working in BVista, takes more than 1 hour by public transport every day.

 

Punggol is for retirement lah LOL....

[Baal]

Stake holders of temples have taken each other to court over $ iirc & was on the papers.

From the events I see which occurs quite a few times a year, many members are very affluent. End up the open cp is full of E class, S class, GTR.

Due to insuff lots, illegal parking on double yellow line.

At the event, they drink Henessy, Martel......then they try to outbid each other.....then later at 1030 or so, proceed cp, ......then there will be lots of honking due to bottle neck....wind down window, expletives spurted....so on so fourth.

And they dont appear very sober.

[Mustank]

  On 1/6/2015 at 1:32 AM, Darryn said:

That still doesn't address the core question though does it?

 

According to reports, a "religious entity" is supposed to be a registered charity because of the nature of what they do - which is perfectly fine, you make donations, it goes towards the work of the temple / church / mosque (whatever)

 

Here - the temple is built / managed by someone with a "profit motive" - so the question then becomes, how much "profit" goes back to the owners, and how much money goes towards the "temple activity"? This is what I am curious about - one thing you can be sure of is that it has been considered by the authorities, and that they have addressed this seeming contradiction in the awarding of the contract to a Pte Ltd to build and manage a Temple.

 

I am curious as to how it has been addressed - will the Pte Ltd become a Landlord? Will they get a fee / commission payment for each worshipper? What exactly is the business model? It doesn't seem to make logical sense for them to simply be a landlord and sublet the space to one of the registered religious societies does it?

 

like this?

 

http://mothership.sg/2015/01/sengkang-resident-turned-heroine-sharon-toh-asks-the-hard-questions-about-sengkang-columbarium/

[Dafansu]

  On 1/6/2015 at 1:26 AM, Wt_know said:

punggol got Punggol 21 big plan

and now waterfront living

punggol huat ah ... hdb 4-room already selling $600k-$700k

 

 

Punggol 4 - room HDB on average should be about 400 to 500k+- only.

[Baal]

Pungol is about perceived waterfront living mah...via edutainment.

[Jman888]

  On 1/6/2015 at 1:32 AM, Darryn said:

That still doesn't address the core question though does it?

 

According to reports, a "religious entity" is supposed to be a registered charity because of the nature of what they do - which is perfectly fine, you make donations, it goes towards the work of the temple / church / mosque (whatever)

 

Here - the temple is built / managed by someone with a "profit motive" - so the question then becomes, how much "profit" goes back to the owners, and how much money goes towards the "temple activity"? This is what I am curious about - one thing you can be sure of is that it has been considered by the authorities, and that they have addressed this seeming contradiction in the awarding of the contract to a Pte Ltd to build and manage a Temple.

 

I am curious as to how it has been addressed - will the Pte Ltd become a Landlord? Will they get a fee / commission payment for each worshipper? What exactly is the business model? It doesn't seem to make logical sense for them to simply be a landlord and sublet the space to one of the registered religious societies does it?

 

 

i am not sure how the older 'business' of temple keeping urn run which they may not be register under Pte Ltd.

 

However for the Columbarium of today (see http://www.nirvanacolumbarium.com/) i doubt they are register under charity entity. A Columbarium can house urn of different religion just like a property resident consist of different race, they can have different religion ceremony held for the family upon request (but some would prefer to keep them within the same faith group).

 

So if you ask the one who bid for the Sengkang Columbarium, i would think they are operating under the new business concept.

[Alpha78]

  On 1/6/2015 at 1:32 AM, Darryn said:

That still doesn't address the core question though does it?

 

According to reports, a "religious entity" is supposed to be a registered charity because of the nature of what they do - which is perfectly fine, you make donations, it goes towards the work of the temple / church / mosque (whatever)

 

Here - the temple is built / managed by someone with a "profit motive" - so the question then becomes, how much "profit" goes back to the owners, and how much money goes towards the "temple activity"? This is what I am curious about - one thing you can be sure of is that it has been considered by the authorities, and that they have addressed this seeming contradiction in the awarding of the contract to a Pte Ltd to build and manage a Temple.

 

I am curious as to how it has been addressed - will the Pte Ltd become a Landlord? Will they get a fee / commission payment for each worshipper? What exactly is the business model? It doesn't seem to make logical sense for them to simply be a landlord and sublet the space to one of the registered religious societies does it?

 

Religion is becoming a big business here. Unfortunately with all these loopholes in the system, someone is bound to try to exploit. Without pointing fingers at the government, because such loopholes can always be thought up by some enterprising (pun intended) persons.

 

Actually, when it comes to columbarium niches in temples, there's a lot of trust and good faith involved. These niches are supposed to be "freehold", but the land where the temple sits on is leasehold. Worse, like the temple where my grandparents' ashes are kept, it's zoned as industrial land and the lease is only 30+30 years. What the temple tells the niche buyers, is that if the temple has to move in future, the niches will be moved to the new premises as well, no top up required. Biggest question is, what if it runs out of donations to build a new temple? It's a leap of faith.

[Darryn]

  On 1/6/2015 at 1:38 AM, Mustank said:

 

like this?

 

http://mothership.sg/2015/01/sengkang-resident-turned-heroine-sharon-toh-asks-the-hard-questions-about-sengkang-columbarium/

Exactly like that.

 

Ignorance is a very dangerous thing. When we don't know the answers, people tend to assume the worst, and most nefarious of motives.

 

Most likely, there is a perfectly clear and rational explanation for how it will work - we (or rather me) just doesn't know what that is yet. Until we can hear more about the business arrangement - we are left to wonder.

 

If I were URA / HDB I would consider clarifying this to be a much bigger priority than anything else - the columbarium is not as much of an issue - so long as the traffic is managed properly during "worship" season, there isn't really much for the residents to be concerned about (at least IMHO)

[Mustank]

siang hoh everybody not interested in securing simi columborium lots

go for diamond cremation, go for virtual columborium with picture, videos, essays

our $1 friend have to rely on rental to temple

siang hoh no temple want to rent their place

investment go up in smoke

[Darryn]

  On 1/6/2015 at 1:40 AM, Jman888 said:

 

 

i am not sure how the older 'business' of temple keeping urn run which they may not be register under Pte Ltd.

 

However for the Columbarium of today (see http://www.nirvanacolumbarium.com/) i doubt they are register under charity entity. A Columbarium can house urn of different religion just like a property resident consist of different race, they can have different religion ceremony held for the family upon request (but some would prefer to keep them within the same faith group).

 

So if you ask the one who bid for the Sengkang Columbarium, i would think they are operating under the new business concept.

I find the columbarium fairly straight forward - you buy a niche, put the ashes and it is managed - public / private / charity it doesn't change the fundamentals - which is buying a piece of land. Doesn't really matter (to me) who that space is bought from.

[Mustank]

  On 1/6/2015 at 1:47 AM, Darryn said:

Exactly like that.

 

Ignorance is a very dangerous thing. When we don't know the answers, people tend to assume the worst, and most nefarious of motives.

 

Most likely, there is a perfectly clear and rational explanation for how it will work - we (or rather me) just doesn't know what that is yet. Until we can hear more about the business arrangement - we are left to wonder.

 

If I were URA / HDB I would consider clarifying this to be a much bigger priority than anything else - the columbarium is not as much of an issue - so long as the traffic is managed properly during "worship" season, there isn't really much for the residents to be concerned about (at least IMHO)

 

aiyah very obvious mah

our $1 friend wants to do columborium business

damm good to earn

want to do full chain service, from funeral, cremation, burial.......

but to take this site, our $1 friend have to do the temple business

now this temple stuff need experience or charamastic religious leader

how to settle leh since we are a bunch of businessman?

rent out to those religious groups lor

 

something like i wanna bid kopitiam but i only wanna do the profitable drinks business

and let out the siong and not so profitable food stores to others

  On 1/6/2015 at 1:51 AM, Darryn said:

I find the columbarium fairly straight forward - you buy a niche, put the ashes and it is managed - public / private / charity it doesn't change the fundamentals - which is buying a piece of land. Doesn't really matter (to me) who that space is bought from.

 

big difference ah!

the niche if in a big big nice nice religious building, gives a feeling of rest, peace, eternity blah blah blah

if put in factory, no feel

packaging is very important

Edited January 6, 2015 by Mustank

[Icemaiden]

Is this crematorium or columbarium or both? Frankly, I wouldn't wanna stay near crematorium like the one at Mandai or Sin Ming Brighthill. People die on a daily basis and there is burning of dead bodies, loud mourning and pollution every day. The one at Sin Ming Brighthill area is the worst. There are funeral parlours nearby with many wakes held daily with burning of joss sticks and chanting. The air there is really bad with a perpetual burnt smell. And the hearse moving slowly from the parlour to the crematorium with mourners walking behind and affecting traffic. This a daily occurrence. But having said that, there are people who can overlook this and stay there despite the daily mourning and burning and chanting and traffic snarls. I know of a few kiasu parents with no school affiliation and move there for the sake of being near Ai Tong School. So property value might not be affected. But I can understand some people might not want to stay near a crematorium and funeral parlours like Sin Ming. But just a columbarium might be acceptable.

[Ktglfc]

  On 1/6/2015 at 1:32 AM, Darryn said:

That still doesn't address the core question though does it?

 

According to reports, a "religious entity" is supposed to be a registered charity because of the nature of what they do - which is perfectly fine, you make donations, it goes towards the work of the temple / church / mosque (whatever)

 

Here - the temple is built / managed by someone with a "profit motive" - so the question then becomes, how much "profit" goes back to the owners, and how much money goes towards the "temple activity"? This is what I am curious about - one thing you can be sure of is that it has been considered by the authorities, and that they have addressed this seeming contradiction in the awarding of the contract to a Pte Ltd to build and manage a Temple.

 

I am curious as to how it has been addressed - will the Pte Ltd become a Landlord? Will they get a fee / commission payment for each worshipper? What exactly is the business model? It doesn't seem to make logical sense for them to simply be a landlord and sublet the space to one of the registered religious societies does it?

 

Let's wait for the answers to these questions ... from the garmen and MP ...

They will have to answer when ppl are questioning abt the policies...

Bet, they are searching for model answers now

[Evillusion]

  On 1/6/2015 at 2:28 AM, Icemaiden said:

Is this crematorium or columbarium or both? Frankly, I wouldn't wanna stay near crematorium like the one at Mandai or Sin Ming Brighthill. People die on a daily basis and there is burning of dead bodies, loud mourning and pollution every day. The one at Sin Ming Brighthill area is the worst. There are funeral parlours nearby with many wakes held daily with burning of joss sticks and chanting. The air there is really bad with a perpetual burnt smell. And the hearse moving slowly from the parlour to the crematorium with mourners walking behind and affecting traffic. This a daily occurrence. But having said that, there are people who can overlook this and stay there despite the daily mourning and burning and chanting and traffic snarls. I know of a few kiasu parents with no school affiliation and move there for the sake of being near Ai Tong School. So property value might not be affected. But I can understand some people might not want to stay near a crematorium and funeral parlours like Sin Ming. But just a columbarium might be acceptable.

and when people smoke cigarretes they complain we are polluting the air and giving them cancer......hahaha! If living nx to a crematorium the smell of burning wood can be overpowering!

[Ender]

  On 1/6/2015 at 1:32 AM, Darryn said:

That still doesn't address the core question though does it?

 

According to reports, a "religious entity" is supposed to be a registered charity because of the nature of what they do - which is perfectly fine, you make donations, it goes towards the work of the temple / church / mosque (whatever)

 

Here - the temple is built / managed by someone with a "profit motive" - so the question then becomes, how much "profit" goes back to the owners, and how much money goes towards the "temple activity"? This is what I am curious about - one thing you can be sure of is that it has been considered by the authorities, and that they have addressed this seeming contradiction in the awarding of the contract to a Pte Ltd to build and manage a Temple.

 

I am curious as to how it has been addressed - will the Pte Ltd become a Landlord? Will they get a fee / commission payment for each worshipper? What exactly is the business model? It doesn't seem to make logical sense for them to simply be a landlord and sublet the space to one of the registered religious societies does it?

I thought the core question or issue is they don't want to stay near a columbarium?

 

So if the columborium is run by a temple, then resident will be ok staying there? not so I guess. The profit organisation is a side track, that needs to be answered in another forum or dialogue..