PIC claim through 3rd party agents

[Ben5266]

 

Let me share a bit on what the TS is saying.

 

Before that, a little self intro: I'm doing sales in an IT Web development / programming firm, and while we inform our clients of the grants available to them, we don't deal in any illegal usage of the grants. How I know what's going on is because clients will sometimes tell us that other vendors are providing better "deals".

 

PIC = Productivity and Innovation Credit (http://iras.gov.sg/irashome/PIcredit.aspx)

 

Basically, what happens is IRAS is giving out money for investments in productivity enhancing equipment and systems. There's two parts to it, Enhanced Tax Deduction and Cash Payout.

 

Most of the time, the Enhanced Tax Deduction is ignored by such "consultants" and they will push for the Cash Payout portion.

 

Why? Because it's more lucrative mah!

 

It is a 60% "refund" of your qualified expenses, capped at $100,000 per FY. (I'll talk about the Bonus in a while.)

 

So, if you spend $15,000 on computers, printers, smartphone, etc, you'll get back $9,000 on your spending. That's good right? A no-contract iPhone 6 will cost roughly $400!! (I didn't google exact price, just giving example.)

 

In addition to that, there is a PIC Bonus! It's a dollar for dollar matching bonus on whatever you've spent, capped at $15,000.

 

So, if in the earlier example, you've spend $15,000 on your computers, etc, you'll get a matching bonus of $15,000. This is in addition to your Cash Payout of $9,000 (the earlier 60%).

 

Total refund = $9,000 + $15,000 = $24,000

 

You get $15,000 worth of equipment, and another $24,000 back as cash, so total value is $39,000.

 

Who don't want?

 

With this number in mind, some people will set up consultancies to "help" you "unlock" that "value", and that will cost you about 10% of what you're claiming (depending on consultancies, I've heard of 2.5% til 20%).

 

That's a rough overview on what's going on. Anyway, I'd advise you guys not to do that. There's gonna be a new legislation coming out soon, maybe early next year? Not sure when, but it's a Anti-PIC Abuse legislation to deal with such frauds. Hopefully, those frauds get exposed, and stop the abuse of such funding.

 

Anyone wanting to know more, can just ask, I'll do my best to answer. Been quite busy lately, so not as active here. =D

Thanks!

 

But submission for 2013 already closed by now right?

[Ben5266]

I run a legit company, I can't claim for anything.

Bcuz I'm sole proprietor.

I pay for everything out of my own pocket, including printers and computers.

 

Then you have cheaters around.

 

PIC claims is screwed up.

Perhaps you might want to convert your business to Pte Ltd?

Not too difficult actually.

Company secretary, can use name from consultant.

 

The only ma fan part is to submit the account annually and must conduct annual GM.

But you, as the sole director, you don't have to pay cpf to yourself.

 

Yourself not counted as employee. Need to hire 3 employees. part time counted as long as you pay their CPF for Dec.

[Karoon]

i am damn sick of hearing people telling me about all these 3rd party agents that ask them to use their names to start up 'companies' and claim their IT expenditure (for personal use) through this claim.

 

for the common scenario, agents tell you to start a website to promote something or 'start' a company and pay your friends/family minimum cpf so that they make up the 'employees' of your company. then you can buy things (ie laptop, pc, ipad, printer etc) for them to claim. they will submit the claims for you and split the returns afterwards.

 

the common phrase of them enticing you to join their scheme is "its very easy. we will settle everything for you. if ah gong is giving free money, why not take it?"

 

false reporting is still illegal the last time i checked. why take the risk for that few thousand dollars?

 

any mcfer has hopped on this train? has anybody heard of anyone jumping on this train already? whats their story?

these ppl manipulating loopholes should be caught and shamed. Govt will just pull the plug as these schemes dont seem to work, and genuine local entrepreneurs suffer

[Watwheels]

For those who think the gahment is stupid and not know what they are doing they are the ones who is the dumbest.

 

And all it takes is for someone to bao toh those 3rd party agents and their so called customers will all kenna digged out and kenna the same fate. This is something to help businesses but soem black sheeps have to resort to such stupid tactics. You think you can get away?

 

Tio liao kenna blacklisted you think in the future you can still apply for grants for your business? Wait long long.

[Yewheng]

<p>Things to Look Out for If Engaging Consultants to File PIC Claims The PIC application process is simple and straightforward. To guide businesses in filing PIC cash payout claims, IRAS has published on its website a list of common mistakes to avoid when claiming PIC. Most businesses file their PIC cash payout claims themselves, but there may be businesses that prefer to engage PIC Consultants to assist them in claiming PIC benefits. Find out what you need to look out for if you are engaging consultants to file PIC claims. Signs that you could be asked to participate in an unacceptable PIC arrangement Vendors, salespersons and consultants may approach you and offer to help you claim PIC cash payout if you buy their products/ engage their services. Please be especially mindful of those who misrepresent the intention of the PIC scheme. Here are some signs that you could be asked to participate in an unacceptable PIC arrangement. If you make incorrect PIC cash payout claims based on wrong advice by vendors, salespersons and consultants, you will face penalties as you are ultimately responsible for the accuracy of your PIC application. Please refer to the IRAS website or contact IRAS for assistance if you are unclear about the PIC scheme or wish to verify if the advice given to you by vendors, salespersons or consultants is accurate. For PIC Consultants and Vendors Find out what you need to know if you are a PIC Consultant or Vendor. IRAS takes a serious view of any abuse of PIC scheme IRAS takes a serious view of taxpayers who defraud the government. Offenders convicted of PIC fraud will have to pay a penalty of up to four times the amount of cash payout fraudulently obtained, and a fine of up to $50,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years. This includes any person who wilfully assist another person to obtain a cash payout or PIC bonus which he is not entitled to. List of offenders convicted of PIC abuse:

• Sep 2013 Greenit Pte Ltd Fined and Penalised for Fraudulent PIC Claims; its Director Jailed and Penalised
• Feb 2014 Exel Mitsui Technologies Pte Ltd Fined and Penalised for False PIC Claims; its Director Jailed and Penalised
• Aug 2014 Media Grafix Pte Ltd Fined and Penalised for False PIC Claim

This is just tip of ice berg.. don't know what authorities are doing. For so long only caught these few ?

[Kb27]

Perhaps you might want to convert your business to Pte Ltd?

Not too difficult actually.

Company secretary, can use name from consultant.

 

The only ma fan part is to submit the account annually and must conduct annual GM.

But you, as the sole director, you don't have to pay cpf to yourself.

 

Yourself not counted as employee. Need to hire 3 employees. part time counted as long as you pay their CPF for Dec.

 

Thanks..but too much trouble just to claim a printer.

[Myxilplix]

Never got these agents, but sure got a lot of photocopier people calling us to offer new machine and they will help us with PIC claim submission.

 

End up I got my office manager to listen to their pitch and do more research with IRAS. We didn't need a new photocopier, but have been submitting our own PIC claims for upgrades to our IT infrastructure and new equipment.

[Porche]

That's. Y these few months photocopiers selling like hotcakes.

[Kangadrool]

KNN, businesses/commercial entities also need subsidies and handouts. Pui....

[Sabian]

Buy some popcorn. Wait for show to start.

 

Like the underage saga, all kenna hauled up after the CONsultant serves up everyone's contact numbers and PIC submissions for his own skin.

[Mcf777]

Someone forward me this email.

cheapo idiot.....sending SPAM mail to solicit for business.

 

===============================

 

Hello, Sir/Madam,

 

Good day to you, Hope you are doing well.

I am Nancy, Sales Coordinator for Rexxx Mexxx (SINGAPORE) Pte Ltd. I am looking at your website and was thinking if you would be keen in revamping your website. Claim for PIC for your website.

Our prices are as follow:

WordPress based website $5000

E-Commerce Website $7000

Booking Website $9000

SEO Services (10 keywords) Yearly $3600 Guaranteed Results

SEO Software Yearly $5000 (75 keywords)

We will help you to process the claim with no administrative charges

We also do Google Adwords advertising, if you are new to it or already have an account, we manage for you at the lowest price guarantee and no set up fees.

.

If you are interested in our services, please reply this email.

Best Regards,

Nancy Paxxxx

 

T:+65 6653 xxxx

D: +65 9326 xxxx

E: [email protected]

 

[Kangadrool]

All these "subsidies/grants" actually drive up costs eventually, just like child care. Gahment upped subsidies, CCC upped school fees. LPPL. Worse still is, subsidies cannot catch up with the fee rise.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Kangadrool

[Darryn]

Perhaps you might want to convert your business to Pte Ltd?

Not too difficult actually.

Company secretary, can use name from consultant.

 

The only ma fan part is to submit the account annually and must conduct annual GM.

But you, as the sole director, you don't have to pay cpf to yourself.

 

Yourself not counted as employee. Need to hire 3 employees. part time counted as long as you pay their CPF for Dec.

The biggest advantage of Pte Ltd is that the liability of the company is limited to the assets of the company.

 

As a sole prop - you can be held personally liable.

 

Is a big deal for liquidated damages...

Someone forward me this email.

cheapo idiot.....sending SPAM mail to solicit for business.

 

===============================

 

Hello, Sir/Madam,

 

Good day to you, Hope you are doing well.

I am Nancy, Sales Coordinator for Rexxx Mexxx (SINGAPORE) Pte Ltd. I am looking at your website and was thinking if you would be keen in revamping your website. Claim for PIC for your website.

Our prices are as follow:

WordPress based website $5000

E-Commerce Website $7000

Booking Website $9000

SEO Services (10 keywords) Yearly $3600 Guaranteed Results

SEO Software Yearly $5000 (75 keywords)

We will help you to process the claim with no administrative charges

We also do Google Adwords advertising, if you are new to it or already have an account, we manage for you at the lowest price guarantee and no set up fees.

.

If you are interested in our services, please reply this email.

Best Regards,

Nancy Paxxxx

 

T:+65 6653 xxxx

D: +65 9326 xxxx

E: [email protected]

 

$5k for basic website? Kinda on the high side - hope it includes CMS and some copy

 

On the other hand, $3,600 for SEO is really cheap, but bear in mind - the guarantee isn't worth anything at all.

 

Not sure what is "SEO Software" - never heard of such a thing.

[Stepspro]

The biggest advantage of Pte Ltd is that the liability of the company is limited to the assets of the company.

 

As a sole prop - you can be held personally liable.

 

Is a big deal for liquidated damages...

$5k for basic website? Kinda on the high side - hope it includes CMS and some copy

 

On the other hand, $3,600 for SEO is really cheap, but bear in mind - the guarantee isn't worth anything at all.

 

Not sure what is "SEO Software" - never heard of such a thing.

SEO - Search Engine Optimization?

[Darryn]

SEO - Search Engine Optimization?

yeah...

 

Done properly, it can be really really good - I charge in the region of $400-$500 per month for 15 words,

 

Clients are on page one of Google -

 

BUT - your website needs to support it, so mostly I only do as an "add on" service when I design the website - don't really offer / promote as a standalone service

[StefanK]

The biggest advantage of Pte Ltd is that the liability of the company is limited to the assets of the company.

 

As a sole prop - you can be held personally liable.

 

Is a big deal for liquidated damages...

$5k for basic website? Kinda on the high side - hope it includes CMS and some copy

 

On the other hand, $3,600 for SEO is really cheap, but bear in mind - the guarantee isn't worth anything at all.

 

Not sure what is "SEO Software" - never heard of such a thing.

 

 

SEO Software most likely referring to Google Analytics (which if I remember correctly, is actually free?)

[Darryn]

 

 

SEO Software most likely referring to Google Analytics (which if I remember correctly, is actually free?)

Yeah...

 

Analytics free - as is webmaster tools which is actually the one you want for search terms and analysis.

 

If people are silly enough to pay, then more fool them...although it is ok to charge for actionable recommendations based on analytics reports...

[Hydrocarbon]

To all who said thanks, you're welcome. Just sharing what I know.

 

I have people in my industry claiming till crazy, the consultant even told me one guy with whole year commission is only $2k plus for the Whole of the years claim , I was like wtf. Generally, the consultant would take a huge chunk of the claims.

Claim 40k for software development, TBH how much can software development can be now since they outsource to India etc and the template is already there. A few of my colleagues claim telling me the consultant say its saf and with cash back and stuffe, I thinking one day government asks u cough back the money is I think 4-5x of the amount claimed if I not wrong or jail term. For the 10k-15k spread of 5 years (IRAS record keeping requires 5yrs documentation), It's not worth the effort especially they can asks u for coffee anytime during that period.

Was telling a few guys, now they open door big big let the people claim till crazy, then they close up the door and slowly asks each of them to go for coffee, cannot justify good luck, pay back the penalty I think government also HuaT ah based on one claimant average of 30k, penalty maybe 120k.

 

Whole year of commission = 2K? How to survive?

For software development, it can be as low as $5K (for really basic) to $500K or more, depending on client's requirement. And not everything is template based. There's still a lot of debugging and optimizing to be done.

 

I'm not saying that the price is high or low (40K that you quoted), because it really depends on what's being done. And with software development, there is always add-ons as clients will suddenly think of new things to do / add.

 

I run a legit company, I can't claim for anything.

Bcuz I'm sole proprietor.

I pay for everything out of my own pocket, including printers and computers.

 

Then you have cheaters around.

 

PIC claims is screwed up.

 

If you're running a legit company, you don't need to worry. You may claim the PIC, as long as you meet IRAS requirements.

 

Businesses eligible to apply for the cash payout are sole-proprietorships, partnerships, companies (including registered business trusts) that have:

• incurred qualifying expenditure and are entitled to PIC during the basis period for the qualifying YA;
• active business operations in Singapore; and
• at least 3 local employees (Singapore citizens or Singapore permanent residents with CPF contributions) excluding sole-proprietors, partners under contract for service and shareholders who are directors of the company. A business is considered to have met the 3-local-employees condition if it contributes CPF on the payroll of at least 3 local employees in the relevant month(s).

The above in italics are lifted off IRAS' website. Source: http://iras.gov.sg/irasHome/page04.aspx?id=10572#Conditions_for_cash_payout

 

This is for the Cash Payout. For Enhanced Tax Deduction, you do not need the 3 CPF employees, as you're just reducing your tax liabilities. Even if you can't claim the Cash Payout, reducing your tax burden would be better for you as a business.

As usual, please read through IRAS website or contact them if you have any queries.

 

Tot this scheme is ending this year?

Yes, have heard of such stories..

 

Bonus is ending in YA2015, so FY2014. PIC is extended, under new PIC+ Scheme til FY2018, so FY2017.

 

Thanks!

 

But submission for 2013 already closed by now right?

 

Yeah, should be closed, but this one I'm not too sure. Better call IRAS if you really wanna know.

As always, please take my words with a pinch of salt. While I try to be as accurate as possible, I don't check IRAS website daily, so I'll miss certain updates. That's especially if you're reading this a few months from now.