MAS Crashes in Ukraine - MH17

[Wt_know]

yeah ... the airlines think the rebel or separatist will only use MANPAD and not SAM ... if SAM any planes can be shot down

[Babyt]

how the hell they mistaken MH17 as enemy? if so, why didn't they continue to shoot the incoming SQ and Air India planes as well? How come stopped at 1?

[Wt_know]

good question ... the SAM launcher was loaded with 4 missiles

i guess when they found out they shot down a civilian plane, they chop chop hide the SAM liao

 

  On 7/19/2014 at 5:00 AM, Babyt said:

how the hell they mistaken MH17 as enemy? if so, why didn't they continue to shoot the incoming SQ and Air India planes as well? How come stopped at 1?

 

Edited July 19, 2014 by Wt_know

[Lala81]

Hishamuddin and Najib also affected. Their step-grandma

 

 

 

  Quote

Prime Minister Najib Razak's step-grandmother was on board the Malaysia Airlines passenger jet that crashed in violence-wracked Ukraine, the country's defence minister confirmed Saturday.

Hishammuddin Hussein, a cousin of Najib's, said 83-year-old Sri Siti Amirah was "on the flight". Siti Amirah was also Hishammuddin's step-grandmother.

  On 7/19/2014 at 5:05 AM, Wt_know said:

good question ... the SAM launcher was loaded with 4 missiles

i guess when they found out they shot down a civilian plane, they chop chop hide the SAM liao

 

If the pro-Russian rebels are the ones who did it. High likely that the crew of the SAM is russian. But maybe the local commander is a local rebel.

[Babyt]

  On 7/19/2014 at 5:05 AM, Wt_know said:

good question ... the SAM launcher was loaded with 4 missiles

i guess when they found out they shot down a civilian plane, they chop chop hide the SAM liao

 

 

 

they don't immediately realise it is civilian plane until the plane dropped and they went to inspect? all these will be more than few mins to verify...so before that, SQ and India planes if are enemy, they sld have shoot it as well? why consider MH as threat and the other 2 not?

[Wt_know]

only the perpetrator can answer this question ...

 

  On 7/19/2014 at 5:12 AM, Babyt said:

 

they don't immediately realise it is civilian plane until the plane dropped and they went to inspect? all these will be more than few mins to verify...so before that, SQ and India planes if are enemy, they sld have shoot it as well? why consider MH as threat and the other 2 not?

 

[Atonchia]

  On 7/19/2014 at 2:57 AM, Kb27 said:

Does any airlines fly over Gaza ?

Trigger happy Hamas might score a hit.

 

Their weapon system may not be able to engage those flight level.

But the Russian and Ukraine have powerful systems.

[Maxus-MIFA9]

  On 7/18/2014 at 5:49 PM, Bavarian said:

Can our premium national carrier confirm that SIA were still over flying the Ukraine corridor prior to the incident? If they are, why have they not taken heed from other airlines to route their planes away from the war zone. If it had been our plane, heads will roll. This is a near miss incident. Someone should stand out and explain why. Why the blaring lack of informationa?

 

SIA attitude, "Its Won't Happen To Me" .....

 

'Par Si Boh Chow' ...

Edited July 19, 2014 by Picnic06

[Atonchia]

  On 7/19/2014 at 4:39 AM, Turboflat4 said:

Lots of HIV/AIDS researchers thought dead: http://www.nature.com/news/hiv-community-reels-from-losses-in-mh17-plane-tragedy-1.15584

That could have held back the race to find the cure for HIV/AIDS by years or decades.

Really a sad moment to humanity.

[Atrecord]

  On 7/19/2014 at 5:12 AM, Babyt said:

 

they don't immediately realise it is civilian plane until the plane dropped and they went to inspect? all these will be more than few mins to verify...so before that, SQ and India planes if are enemy, they sld have shoot it as well? why consider MH as threat and the other 2 not?

 

at 900 km/h, 24 km difference betw MH and SQ would be less than 2 min. If the place was cruising at slower speed, the time difference would be longer. Maybe that's the reason: if cruise at one-third the speed, the time would be 3X, i.e. about 5 min. If the rebels during these 5 min confirmed they made a tragic mistake, they had better not continue or repeat it...

 

SQ must really go temple and 还神。。。

[Sosaria]

We'll never know why with at least two other aircraft in the vicinity - which should've also been detected by the SAM radar system - the perpetrators chose to just lock on and fire at one blip, and it turns out to be the MAS flight.

 

Maybe it was on the lowest flight level and therefore had a stronger radar return and lock?

 

SAMs are expensive and they wanted more or less a guaranteed hit.

 

That's why the Israelis gave up on using SAMs to hit Hamas rockets - it was just too pricey - so that led to the development of the simpler, cheaper and yet effective "Iron Dome" system.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Sosaria

[Wt_know]

i would think it all happen within 2-3 mins or max less than 5 mins

they shoot and then check/verify target

by the time SQ and Air India pass already

 

  On 7/19/2014 at 5:44 AM, Atrecord said:

at 900 km/h, 24 km difference betw MH and SQ would be less than 2 min. If the place was cruising at slower speed, the time difference would be longer. Maybe that's the reason: if cruise at one-third the speed, the time would be 3X, i.e. about 5 min. If the rebels during these 5 min confirmed they made a tragic mistake, they had better not continue or repeat it...

 

SQ must really go temple and 还神。。。

 

possibly ... if they want to shoot they will get the "easy" target as you described it

but if the real reason is for defend ... they would have to shoot all 3 blip ... as they assume all 3 planes are invaders

if they choose only 1 blip to shoot ... obviously ... they want to make a statement so no point to shoot more ... 1 missile is enough

unless the perpetrator came out to clarify or at least go through forensic data analysis thru the blackbox

otherwise, we will never know ... why?

 

  On 7/19/2014 at 5:46 AM, Sosaria said:

We'll never know why with at least two other aircraft in the vicinity - which should've also been detected by the SAM radar system - the perpetrators chose to just lock on and fire at one blip, and it turns out to be the MAS flight.

 

Maybe it was on the lowest flight level and therefore had a stronger radar return and lock?

 

SAMs are expensive and they wanted more or less a guaranteed hit.

 

That's why the Israelis gave up on using SAMs to hit Hamas rockets - it was just too pricey - so that led to the development of the simpler, cheaper and yet effective "Iron Dome" system.

 

Edited July 19, 2014 by Wt_know

[Sosaria]

Ha ha... now a lot of armchair pilots come out and criticise why SIA continue to use that route even after the conflict started.

 

Need to bear in mind that that airlines overfly conflict zones all over the world, not just in ukraine... as someone mentioned, syria and the turbulent mid-east region, and afghanistan as well are regularly overflown by commercial flights.

 

Unless there is an impending huge air raid that's being planned, or an official war being declared between nations, e.g. as in Iraq during 1st and 2nd gulf war, there will not be a complete closure of airspace.

 

In low-level "unofficial" conflicts like in the ukraine, there may be cautionary notes of a "for info" nature... whether this is sufficient to trigger reaction from the airline, who knows? Now many experts say SIA should have avoided the route, it's all 20-20 hindsight.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Sosaria

[Sosaria]

  On 7/19/2014 at 5:50 AM, Wt_know said:

...

possibly ... if they want to shoot they will get the "easy" target as you described it

but if the real reason is for defend ... they would have to shoot all 3 blip ... as they assume all 3 planes are invaders

if they choose only 1 blip to shoot ... obviously ... they want to make a statement so no point to shoot more ... 1 missile is enough

unless the perpetrator came out to clarify or at least go through forensic data analysis thru the blackbox

otherwise, we will never know ... why?

 

 

 

Because SAM system is not like an automatic rifle... more like a 4-shot revolver in the case of this particular system which only has 4 (?) missiles. And each one very expensive!

 

The SAM is also placed there as part of the area air defence... imagine after shooting off 3 missiles successively, left only 1 then the real air raid comes, how? I'm pretty sure - even though these are rag-tag rebels - the battery commander has to answer for every missile loosed off and paperwork to fill ...

[Dfx16]

For MH17 Malaysia demand justice

For MH370 where's the justice ???

[Sosaria]

I think Boeing has a retrofit air / missile defence system for its aircraft... for sure they've developed it for Air Force One.

 

The Israelis are also rumored to have missile defenses installed on their commercial aircraft.

[Vegas]

  On 7/19/2014 at 6:05 AM, Dfx16 said:

For MH17 Malaysia demand justice

For MH370 where's the justice ???

MH17 can blame someone, MH370 blame who, what?

[Dfx16]

  On 7/19/2014 at 6:09 AM, Vegas said:

MH17 can blame someone, MH370 blame who, what?

For MH370, isn't they pushed away all the fault to the manufacturer and south east asia via refuse to share security info with them?