MAS Crashes in Ukraine - MH17

[Myxilplix]

 

Hmm.... the is a great disparity in height but I guess the landing is all the same. But look at the passports, they looked liked they just came out from someone's drawer. Seems like part of the plane landed quite 'softly'. Very odd considering everything started free falling from 33k Ft.

 

Terminal velocity is terminal velocity, whether an object or person is falling from 10k or 30k feet. Plus in this case the ground is not completely solid and the soil/grass would have taken a little bit of the force out of the impact. Light objects aren't going to hit the ground with much force at all, hence the condition of the passports/travel guides shown in the news.

 

I just did some quick research and rough paper calculations. Anyone who survived the initial impact and breakup of the plane at 32k feet, would have been free-falling for 2-3 minutes before hitting the ground. Imagine being conscious for that long knowing you're going to die (hypoxia/unconsciousness won't set in soon enough). That's f**ked up.

[Lala81]

 

Terminal velocity is terminal velocity, whether an object or person is falling from 10k or 30k feet. Plus in this case the ground is not completely solid and the soil/grass would have taken a little bit of the force out of the impact. Light objects aren't going to hit the ground with much force at all, hence the condition of the passports/travel guides shown in the news.

 

I just did some quick research and rough paper calculations. Anyone who survived the initial impact and breakup of the plane at 32k feet, would have been free-falling for 2-3 minutes before hitting the ground. Imagine being conscious for that long knowing you're going to die (hypoxia/unconsciousness won't set in soon enough). That's f**ked up.

 

Hope they were already unconscious or dead on impact of the missile.

[1fast1]

 

i think the airspace wasnt closed yet. it was just "up to pilots" to take it. but was adviced against

 

Who advised against it? I mean before this incident, not with the benefit of hindsight?

 

A good perspective: http://time.com/3002842/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-mh17-eastern/

Many airlines have already avoided flying over this corridor. Some rerouted months ago.

Do you have any links to this info, bro? I am looking for carriers that had the foresight to avoid this risk (which is very commendable).

Edited July 18, 2014 by Turboflat4

[Myxilplix]

 

Hope they were already unconscious or dead on impact of the missile.

 

Some maybe, but I doubt all of them were

[Mustank]

Many airlines have already avoided flying over this corridor. Some rerouted months ago. SQ did not. If the shooter first take a smoke break then start aiming..... It could have been them. MH17 just sway. They too however decided to maintain this route cos it is more expensive to take a longer route and MAS is in a shitty financial position.

 

SQ? They have gone down in my estimation. Premium price but not premium safety considerations taken as far as I am concerned. If itz Jetstar then I got nothing to say. Just my opinion.

 

i am also surprised

look good on the outside but......

[Lala81]

70kg of high explosive in one missile. Likely to have destroyed part of the body straight away. Looks like it's not a heat seeker so it's radar guided and went for the central body instead of the engines.

[Camrysfa]

Before 2014 MAS safety record was considered very good.

[Mockngbrd]

 

Who advised against it? I mean before this incident, not with the benefit of hindsight?

 

A good perspective: http://time.com/3002842/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-mh17-eastern/

Do you have any links to this info, bro? I am looking for carriers that had the foresight to avoid this risk (which is very commendable).

 

I think i remember reading Qantas and a Korean carrier

 

 

 

http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asia/south-east-asia/story/malaysia-airlines-mh17-crash-malaysian-pm-najibs-step-grandmother-wa

 

 

Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash: Malaysian PM Najib's step-grandmother was on flight

[Mustank]

 

Terminal velocity is terminal velocity, whether an object or person is falling from 10k or 30k feet. Plus in this case the ground is not completely solid and the soil/grass would have taken a little bit of the force out of the impact. Light objects aren't going to hit the ground with much force at all, hence the condition of the passports/travel guides shown in the news.

 

I just did some quick research and rough paper calculations. Anyone who survived the initial impact and breakup of the plane at 32k feet, would have been free-falling for 2-3 minutes before hitting the ground. Imagine being conscious for that long knowing you're going to die (hypoxia/unconsciousness won't set in soon enough). That's f**ked up.

 

hope the bad guys will have to eat their medicine one day

[Piyopico]

 

Who advised against it? I mean before this incident, not with the benefit of hindsight?

 

A good perspective: http://time.com/3002842/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-mh17-eastern/

 

Do you have any links to this info, bro? I am looking for carriers that had the foresight to avoid this risk (which is very commendable).

Itz all over the news. Korean Air, Taiwan Air and Cathay etc all rerouted. Apparently Luthansa also never change.

 

Itz all about risk assessment. SQ thinks it is still ok. They were just 15mins behind MH17.

[RH1667]

 

Do you have any links to this info, bro? I am looking for carriers that had the foresight to avoid this risk (which is very commendable).

 

FM CNA

 

SEOUL: The Malaysian airliner which was apparently shot down over rebel-held eastern Ukraine was flying over airspace that a number of other Asian carriers had already abandoned months ago due to security concerns.

South Korea's two main airlines, Korean Air and Asiana, as well as Australia's Qantas and Taiwan's China Airlines said they had all re-routed flights from as early as the beginning of March when Russian troops moved into Crimea.

"We stopped flying over Ukraine because of safety concerns," Asiana spokeswoman Lee Hyo-min said.

Korean Air moved its flight paths 250 kilometres (160 miles) south of Ukraine from March 3 "due to the political unrest in the region", an official for the carrier told AFP.

A Qantas spokeswoman said its London to Dubai service used to fly over Ukraine, but the route was changed "several months ago", while Taiwan's China Airlines diverted its flights from April 3.

Quizzed as to why Malaysia Airlines had not taken similar precautions, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said international air authorities had deemed the flight path secure.

"The aircraft's flight route was declared safe by the International Civil Aviation Organization. And (the) International Air Transportation Association has stated that the airspace the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions," he said.

Re-routing would have involved a longer flight-time and therefore higher fuel costs.

Hong Kong's Cathay Pacific said it had not been using Ukrainian airspace "for quite some time" and Pakistan International Airlines said it had re-routed "some time ago."

According to the European flight safety body Eurocontrol, the Ukrainian authorities declared the east of the country a no-fly zone shortly after the Malaysian airliner went down with 298 people on board. European and US airlines re-routed their flights as Kiev said flight MH17 was shot down in a "terrorist" attack and a US official said intelligence analysts "strongly believe" it was downed by a surface-to-air missile.

Eurocontrol said the doomed plane was flying at a level known as "330", or approximately 10,000 metres or 33,000 feet, when it disappeared from radar screens. The route itself had been closed to level "320" but was cleared for those flying at the Malaysian plane's altitude.

Gerry Soejatman, a consultant with the Jakarta-based Whitesky Aviation chartered flight provider, said airlines that flew over conflict zones were not necessarily negligent.

"Every airline does its own risk assessment," Soejatman said, adding that flying above 30,000 feet was generally considered secure given the level of training and sophisticated weaponry required to shoot down a plane at that height.

"Ten years ago, you'd be an idiot to fly over Iraq below 15,000 feet, but over 30,000 feet was very safe, so it's about the level of risk. I think this will send a message to airlines to have a closer look at conflict zones when they choose to fly over them and gain a better understanding of what equipment is on the ground," he said.

Air India and Thai Airways said they had both started re-routing flights away from Ukraine as a direct result of the Malaysian crash.

"Some of our flights used to pass through Ukrainian airspace ... but as of today all of our flights are totally avoiding Ukrainian airspace," a Thai Airways spokeswoman said.

Air China and China Eastern Airways had a total of 28 flights a week passing over eastern Ukraine, but China's Civil Aviation Administration said on Friday it had ordered all carriers to circumvent the region.

Vietnam Airlines said it had suspended four long-haul flights to Europe in the immediate aftermath of the Malaysia Airlines incident. It added that the flights resumed on Friday but on re-drawn routes that "completely avoid" eastern Ukraine.

[Civic2000]

bye bye MH. I'm guessing MH will close shop, but another will be launched. Kinda like Swiss Air.

 

It will be hard to operate MH as it is now. Brand perception all down the drain.

 

Sad case for MAS. MAS was named as one of the top 10 airlines in the category of "Best Cabin Crew" (Ranking #5) in this year World Airline Awards.

[Mustank]

looks like chinese airlines also use the ukrian route

if they aim one of these chinese airlines, good show

i see this putin how settle

[Wt_know]

obviously, many airlines had re-routed their flight path "some time ago" .... except .... you know

i can't believe SIA (SQ351) is with these group of airlines that did not re-route

 

Air India and Thai Airways said they had both started re-routing flights away from Ukraine as a direct result of the Malaysian crash.

"Some of our flights used to pass through Ukrainian airspace ... but as of today all of our flights are totally avoiding Ukrainian airspace," a Thai Airways spokeswoman said.

Air China and China Eastern Airways had a total of 28 flights a week passing over eastern Ukraine, but China's Civil Aviation Administration said on Friday it had ordered all carriers to circumvent the region.

Vietnam Airlines said it had suspended four long-haul flights to Europe in the immediate aftermath of the Malaysia Airlines incident. It added that the flights resumed on Friday but on re-drawn routes that "completely avoid" eastern Ukraine.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Wt_know

[Shull]

I am not expert in air crash but looking at the wreckage, there are surprisingly large recognizable pieces. I would expect smaller fragments burnt beyond recognition. But since there was no survivors, I guess that point is moot.

 

This points to midair breakup as compared to breakup upon impact with the ground..

 

Either an onboard bomb or as most theory suggest, hit by a missile.

[Sp4wn]

 

hope the bad guys will have to eat their medicine one day

 

actually, i prefer the bad guys to suffer, and then no medicine for them, so they suffer all the way for what they did

[Shull]

 

Extremely sad day…

It is ridiculous that the global aviation authorities have decided to continue to fly over the airspace of a region at war. The two parties have just been shooting down enemy's plane, and the result is almost certainly that they will start shooting whoever is not their friendly forces. They risk being shot at themselves if they do not act fast, so will not spend much time thinking, checking, etc…

SQ was just 15 miles behind, apparently. If flying at top speed of about 900 km/h, the SQ plane would be less than 2 min behind MH17…

It is indeed fortunate escape for SQ, while the ill-fated MH17 ended in tragedy…

And the stupid authorities have to wait till something like this happens before they start to do something about the flight paths...

 

 

Ukraine vs Rebels are fighting a ground war, there's no reason to stop overflights unless both parties are having air sorties.

 

The US war in Afghan is even more bloody and has been going on for the last 10 years, yet flights are still flying over Afghan day in day out.

 

This is fark up. It takes some time to fall from 33,000Ft. Seriously F*** up...

 

The only consolation is at that kind of altitude, the passengers and crew will probably suffocate and blacked out. By the time they hit the ground, they'll likely be dead.

[Shull]

Itz all over the news. Korean Air, Taiwan Air and Cathay etc all rerouted. Apparently Luthansa also never change.

 

Itz all about risk assessment. SQ thinks it is still ok. They were just 15mins behind MH17.

 

Someone in Flyertalk did a retrack of all Europe to Asia flights. Most flights to and from SEA follow the same path as MH17.. SQ, TG, MH, LH all flew over Ukraine. Flights to HK and China will take a slightly northerly route. It's all following the shortest distance route, with minor changes to cater for localised weather conditions.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Shull