Poorly conceived policy leading to messy implementaion

[Wt_know]

next time interview angmoh

hey bro, how much do you think a car worth in spore.

let's say a small family car 1.2L 1.4L and 1.6L

$100K ... ok ... don't play play

then the killing part is ... sorry bro, bhp must be limited at 130bhp ... ROTFL

Edited July 29, 2014 by Wt_know

[Jellandross]

next time interview angmoh

hey bro, how much do you think a car worth in spore.

let's say a small family car 1.2L 1.4L and 1.6L

$100K ... ok ... don't play play

then the killing part is ... sorry bro, bhp must be limited at 130bhp ... ROTFL

Pardon my ignorance. Did LTA ever explained why the magic number 130?

[Gaolow]

 

maybe you never work in gahment sector before... each case need several layers of management approval, each layer of approval takes 7 working days reply confirmation.. etc

 

I thought was a horse?

 

please do not use horse to compare..horse are much much better than him..don't insult the horse..

[Heartbreakid]

In the end, it's just a bunch of stupid people without passion to come out with silly figures to control this and that without looking at a bigger picture. Other than the 130bhp, which seems to cause more troubles to sales and procedures, recent implementation to the VEP rise at the causeway is just simply an add on to asking more trouble and inconvenience. Our elites running the show need to be self pawn a big time to let them know that they are really a bunch of useless fools knowing nothing but causing trouble and inconvenience to the people and also our neighbours.

[Soya]

Pardon my ignorance. Did LTA ever explained why the magic number 130?

 

 

not magic. coz 'rolla is 130bhp. kelong......

 

http://www.sgcarmart.com/new_cars/newcars_specs.php?CarCode=11303&Subcode=3535

[Wt_know]

anyhow go to sgcarmart .... print out the list of car

and group them as CAT A ... ta da ... 130bhp is the answer

 

just like $20K OMV as cut of for ARF 100% and loan 60% ... and use Mazda 3 as an example

 

above $20K OMV ... 140% & 180% ARF and 50% loan

 

 

Pardon my ignorance. Did LTA ever explained why the magic number 130?

 

Edited July 29, 2014 by Wt_know

[Nolicense]

anyhow go to sgcarmart .... print out the list of car

and group them as CAT A ... ta da ... 130bhp is the answer

 

just like $20K OMV as cut of for ARF 100% and loan 60% ... and use Mazda 3 as an example

 

above $20K OMV ... 140% & 180% ARF and 50% loan

 

 

 

this called market measures mah.. same as eHDeeBee, Market Subsidy is based on resale flat prices.

[Caravan]

Magic number of 130 just to satisfy a 'perception'. They never see why the german cars are so popular. 130k for an altis is hardly socially equitable.

[Kangadrool]

Lol.... Current Altis so big in size, it should be classed as luxury car instead.

 

Magic number of 130 just to satisfy a 'perception'. They never see why the german cars are so popular. 130k for an altis is hardly socially equitable.

 

[RadX]

 

Haha, thanks. I've been told that my comments are as pointed as the top of my head - pinpoint!

 

 

errr..wh head? u ask porker on that one cos hell we aint gonna verify or TESTIfy

[Fastfive1]

The reason why LTA wants to put cars on the dyno is because of idiots like the one in the link below. Idiots like him give the government new ideas on ways to screw with us.

 

http://www.mycarforum.com/blog/12/entry-3390-the-aftermath-of-coe-changes/

 

The fact here is that German cars are getting very popular here and I don't see why they shouldn't. If you compare the styling, the Germans do a very good job of it. Sadly the Japanese are no longer designing nice cars and are instead flooding the market with ugly cars like the new Impreza, the new Axio and even the much loved Altis. I would say that only Mazda is producing cars that look and perform decently.

[RadX]

 

 

not magic. coz 'rolla is 130bhp. kelong......

 

http://www.sgcarmart.com/new_cars/newcars_specs.php?CarCode=11303&Subcode=3535

 

 

so that N_ABE! fella more powderful than Angela?

[Myxilplix]

The reason why LTA wants to put cars on the dyno is because of idiots like the one in the link below. Idiots like him give the government new ideas on ways to screw with us.

 

http://www.mycarforum.com/blog/12/entry-3390-the-aftermath-of-coe-changes/

 

The fact here is that German cars are getting very popular here and I don't see why they shouldn't. If you compare the styling, the Germans do a very good job of it. Sadly the Japanese are no longer designing nice cars and are instead flooding the market with ugly cars like the new Impreza, the new Axio and even the much loved Altis. I would say that only Mazda is producing cars that look and perform decently.

 

Aftermarket modification has got nothing to do with it. LTA wants to dyno homologation models to ensure that the cars are as per the manufacturers' stated output. Which is why the Audi guy is saying they're essentially calling the manufacturers liars and also seem to be infringing on the FTA.

 

What is LTA going to do, dyno every single new car being delivered to the owners?

 

If people wanna mod their cars after taking delivery it's their taiji liao. People have been modifying even basic B&B cars for ages, that's between them and LTA. Up to the owners on what they want to do, how much of the laws they want to skirt around and how much they want to compromise their reliability/driveability/warranties.

 

The grey area as I see it is the AD themselves offering packages to reflash or whatever. As long as this is not packaged with a new sub-130bhp car to see it delivered with more that 130bhp I don't see the problem. If the owner wants to come back after running-in the car to get it reflashed, up to him lor. Just make sure it's not part of the packaged deal when he bought the car. Abit grey lah this.

[Wt_know]

i speculate many car maker over-declare and under-declare their performance to achieve their objective

i wouldn't think car maker lie or cheat in their bhp but they can tweak the dyno parameters and conditions to suit their desired outcome. they can test many runs with different temp, fuel, etc to get an average or median power.

 

imagine a 130bhp car is dynoed as

 

a. 120bhp

b. 140bhp

 

with turbo engine it is easy to have a plus minus 10-15bhp variance

 

how will car maker answer the world when their car performance is under and over declare.

for donkey years, petrol head and tuner dyno car. car maker can brush it off saying its individual dyno and tuner. not car maker specific. now that lta dyno stock car and verify its power, it is like kena validated by a 3rd party.

 

MCF bro also dyno their car after putting a k&n air filter and tok kong exhaust ...

different dyno machine produce different result

 

ah jeff is smart enough to see what is coming .... muahahahaha

 

now many 1.2L and 1.4L turbo engine is listed with 122bhp

it would be interesting to see the dyno result

 

if the result is

 

a. 102bhp ... customer bang table

b. 131bhp ... re-cat to CAT B

Edited July 29, 2014 by Wt_know

[Fastfive1]

 

Aftermarket modification has got nothing to do with it. LTA wants to dyno homologation models to ensure that the cars are as per the manufacturers' stated output. Which is why the Audi guy is saying they're essentially calling the manufacturers liars and also seem to be infringing on the FTA.

 

What is LTA going to do, dyno every single new car being delivered to the owners?

 

If people wanna mod their cars after taking delivery it's their taiji liao. People have been modifying even basic B&B cars for ages, that's between them and LTA. Up to the owners on what they want to do, how much of the laws they want to skirt around and how much they want to compromise their reliability/driveability/warranties.

 

The grey area as I see it is the AD themselves offering packages to reflash or whatever. As long as this is not packaged with a new sub-130bhp car to see it delivered with more that 130bhp I don't see the problem. If the owner wants to come back after running-in the car to get it reflashed, up to him lor. Just make sure it's not part of the packaged deal when he bought the car. Abit grey lah this.

 

Precisely. I was referring to remapping the ECU to achieve more power. Trying to enforce power restriction is damn stupid. Unless they're gonna say that remapping your ecu is illegal and will compare your existing map with the original factory map. But that means they will need an entire database of engine mapping. This would mean additional resources required to achieve such an enforcement which doesn't make much sense.

 

This policy does seem like it's infringing on the FTA because it is targeted at European cars who have flooded the market with the small turbocharged engines. But that's too bad as they've learnt how to produce cars which are efficient. For some strange reason, LTA wants to protect these shitty looking and underpowered Japanese cars as if it's a local product so that people who can't afford a car can get one. Even with this policy in place, how many Singaporeans who have gotten their wish can afford a Toyota Altis now? Not many. That's why if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Wt_know]

sounds like punishing the conti car maker for making small engine high power

 

the r&d effort and money that conti maker invested to design a small engine (1.2L 1.4L 1.6L) turbo that is capable to churn out high performance is penalished because they are superior compare to the lousy 1.6L toyota/mazda/honda/nissan/kia/hyundai

 

Precisely. I was referring to remapping the ECU to achieve more power. Trying to enforce power restriction is damn stupid. Unless they're gonna say that remapping your ecu is illegal and will compare your existing map with the original factory map. But that means they will need an entire database of engine mapping. This would mean additional resources required to achieve such an enforcement which doesn't make much sense.

 

This policy does seem like it's infringing on the FTA because it is targeted at European cars who have flooded the market with the small turbocharged engines. But that's too bad as they've learnt how to produce cars which are efficient. For some strange reason, LTA wants to protect these shitty looking and underpowered Japanese cars as if it's a local product so that people who can't afford a car can get one. Even with this policy in place, how many Singaporeans who have gotten their wish can afford a Toyota Altis now? Not many. That's why if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

Edited July 29, 2014 by Wt_know

[Fastfive1]

sounds like punishing the conti car maker for making small engine high power

 

the r&d effort and money that conti maker invested to design a small engine (1.2L 1.4L 1.6L) turbo that is capable to churn out high performance is penalished because they are superior compare to a lousy 1.6L mazda/honda/nissan/kia/hyundai

 

 

 

That's why it does seem like a case of protectionism. But that is normally done to protect local industries. In this scenario, are the Japanese cars produced by local industries? I'm sure you know the answer. So saying that it violates the FTA is a really grey area. It doesn't punish the bigger engine european cars with the huge engine.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Fastfive1

[Paddie]

sounds like punishing the conti car maker for making small engine high power

 

the r&d effort and money that conti maker invested to design a small engine (1.4L & 1.6L) turbo that is capable to churn out high performance is penalished because they are superior compare to the lousy 1.6L toyota/mazda/honda/nissan/kia/hyundai

 

 

 

But power is power. What makes them think that the 122bhp Conti car is fake, whereas a 121bhp Jap car (like Altis) is real?

 

Just because there's a turbo? That's rubbish.

 

And if I want to buy a Suzuki Swift Sport (134bhp), can I ask for it to be dyno? So if it turns out to be, say, 128bhp, I pay Cat A COE instead of Cat B??

 

Or maybe LTA should start measuring actual engine capacity? Maybe Hyundai Elantra (1591cc) is actually 1601cc? Then have to pay Cat B COE.

 

Complete nonsense.