Should PRs Leaving SG be Allowed to Keep HDB Sales Proceed?

[Albeniz]

Many years ago, everyone rented the flat from HDB. I remember we used to pay $100 plus/month for an old 4 room HDB flat at Prince Charles Crescent. Yes, those houses near the demolished Alexandra Post Office and Crescent Girls' School.

 

As society progresses, we no longer rent but "buy" the HDB flats and this is where the problem starts. Everyone becomes greedy and starts to turn to these public housing for quick 6 -figure profits, locals and foreigners, all alike.

 

We should revert back to the old renting system. This way we could also eradicate the problems of xmms coming here to marry old local Ah gongs and demand the profits from HDB sales.

 

Too many such cases from Wanbao and Shin min.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Albeniz

[Scion]

 

PRs DO abide by this rule - can only withdraw money if give up PR. CPF is not a bank account, cannot happily withdraw as and when see fit - can only withdraw if leave Singapore permanently and give up PR status

 

Exactly the same way a citizen can withdraw money if give up citizen status.

 

how can this be the same??

 

one is a PR who can easily pack up and go back to his hometown

 

one is a citizen who has no other places to fall back to

[Oblong]

any old bird can remember when the rule is changed to allow PR to buy HDB resale flat?

I don't remember PR can buy HDB resale during Lim Kim San's days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queenstown,_Singapore

[Nzy]

 

Because this is the CPF rule.

 

If every citizen abides by this rule, then why not PR and foreigners?

 

IIRC if Singaporean leaving Singapore permanently also can take out all the CPF. But if want to come back to Singapore as PR must put back the whole lump sum back into CPF. Same thing for PRs if I am not wrong.

[Darryn]

your disagreement is centered on the issue of "subsidy". that is contentious I agree because the HDB makes no real loss, their only loss is higher profits they could have gotten if they sell at market value. this one I can agree to disagree. but the housing grant is real. it is hard cash given out.

 

well let's go one step further and not argue over technicalities of the word subsidy. let's get into discussion of real world buyer and seller behaviour.

 

if it wasn't significantly cheaper, why would all people still prefer buy HDB than private condo? HDB flats, price-wise, are not exactly private apartments . although such PR if they buy and sell HDB are not exactly raiding the reserves, the HDB "forsaken profits" could have be an additional factor taken into consideration.

 

Honestly - I feel the whole HDB policy is screwed.

 

PR should NOT be able to buy HDB,

 

But more importantly HDB should NOT be about 3/4 of the market. When this proportion of the market is "public" housing I think there is something wrong.

 

To my mind - HDB should be "reserved" for the truly poor, not middle income earners. Then there should be a "gap" in the middle of the market for your average everyday person (not - person, not SC or PR or whatever). If govt wants to restrict certain "types" of housing (eg: housing with no land cost, but rented from govt on 99 year lease) only to citizens - that's fine by me.

 

IIRC if Singaporean leaving Singapore permanently also can take out all the CPF. But if want to come back to Singapore as PR must put back the whole lump sum back into CPF. Same thing for PRs if I am not wrong.

Correct

 

Must put back all the money PLUS the interest that would have accrued in the meantime

[Nzy]

 

how can this be the same??

 

one is a PR who can easily pack up and go back to his hometown

 

one is a citizen who has no other places to fall back to

 

The thing is PR leave Singapore thats why can take out all the CPF. Its their money right? Just like Singaporean. If you decide to leave Singapore permanently then they let you take out CPF, since its your money.

[Tianake]

 

Then if PR use CPF for housing loan - only have to pay into it at bank saving rate?

 

If Citizen renounce and leave, only get bank saving rate?

 

The main point is why PRs can renounce and take their CPF money with current CPF rate while citizens can't do it unless they give up singapore citizenship. After all, the government say the money inside CPF is our money.

 

So just make it that everyone can choose to take out their CPF money at any time they want but the amount they take out will only be based on normal bank saving rate. For those people who want to keep the money in CPF until the monthly payout will be entitled to the better interest rate that CPF is giving.

 

like that fair or not?

[Scion]

anyway i think the best solution i can offer is limit the PRship to 5 years

 

end of 5 years, either you convert to citizen or you apply for employment pass...

 

and then you cannot buy/own HDB flats... you can only rent them or you buy the private condos

 

no more bullsh1t like being a PR here for 30 years

[Acemundo]

 

Honestly - I feel the whole HDB policy is screwed.

 

PR should NOT be able to buy HDB,

 

But more importantly HDB should NOT be about 3/4 of the market. When this proportion of the market is "public" housing I think there is something wrong.

 

To my mind - HDB should be "reserved" for the truly poor, not middle income earners. Then there should be a "gap" in the middle of the market for your average everyday person (not - person, not SC or PR or whatever). If govt wants to restrict certain "types" of housing (eg: housing with no land cost, but rented from govt on 99 year lease) only to citizens - that's fine by me.

Correct

 

Must put back all the money PLUS the interest that would have accrued in the meantime

agree 100%.

 

these have been the flaws in HDB system I see all the while.

[Darryn]

 

how can this be the same??

 

one is a PR who can easily pack up and go back to his hometown

 

one is a citizen who has no other places to fall back to

 

The same rules apply - if give up the status, then can withdraw money.

 

So the problem you have is not with withdrawing the money - its that you don't have somewhere to "run" to

[Kar_lover]

 

I know now is less of a problem now but it is not entirely the hdb policies that kept these problems in check. it is more of the cooling measures and they affected all and sundry, citizens included.

 

Whether it is entirely HDB policies or MAS policies or a combination of the two (or even more), as long as it works why should it matter whose policy it is right? After all it's coming from the same government. Nope, the ABSD for FIRST flat only applies to PRs. Singaporeans buying their first flat don't need to pay ABSD (which is something like 5%). So it's not applied (equally) to "all and sundry".

[Tianake]

 

IIRC if Singaporean leaving Singapore permanently also can take out all the CPF. But if want to come back to Singapore as PR must put back the whole lump sum back into CPF. Same thing for PRs if I am not wrong.

 

why would a PR want to come back to singapore again when they are done leeching on us?

 

maybe as tourists instead bah?

[Icedbs]

 

Honestly - I feel the whole HDB policy is screwed.

 

PR should NOT be able to buy HDB,

 

Bro...PR is indeed not allowed to buy HDB now.

 

But if a PR marries a Singaporean, then they are allowed to purchase a HDB. We can't say this is wrong, otherwise the Sinkie spouse stays where?

 

Hence, if you hear of PR purchasing HDB, that's probably because they have a Sinkie spouse. IN the old days, PR siblings can buy HDB but I think that's now allowed now.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2014 by Icedbs

[Hiphiphoray]

Totally agree on this.

 

And then slap a 50% levy on the HDB flat when they sell and leave.

 

hehehehe........

 

 

 

agreed

 

should implement a rule instead that a PR must convert to citizenship within 5 years, or he/she must say bye bye and sell away whatever flats he has in Singapore

 

[TVT]

 

The thing is PR leave Singapore thats why can take out all the CPF. Its their money right? Just like Singaporean. If you decide to leave Singapore permanently then they let you take out CPF, since its your money.

 

You forgot one thing - a citizen giving up his citizenship is not the same as a PR giving up his PRship.

[Darryn]

anyway i think the best solution i can offer is limit the PRship to 5 years

 

end of 5 years, either you convert to citizen or you apply for employment pass...

 

and then you cannot buy/own HDB flats... you can only rent them or you buy the private condos

 

no more bullsh1t like being a PR here for 30 years

For your info - PR is ALREADY limited to 5 years.

 

Every 5 years must get a "re-entry permit" - one of the criteria is that you must be gainfully employed to get the re-entry permit.

 

Also - I worked with the RC for a while - the most common question for certain groups of PR - "how quickly can I get citizenship"

 

After 5 years are you willing to GUARANTEE someone citizenship? What about those that apply but don't make it?

 

If "kick out" after 5 years - what about PR that are kids? Or PR that are here as spouse of citizen?

To "limit" PR to 5 years it is no longer PR, but rather a 5 year visit permit...which is different.

 

NOTE - I personally feel the thing to do would be to make PR harder to get in the first place - not to place restrictions on the person after PR has been granted

[Jman888]

Many years ago, everyone rented the flat from HDB. I remember we used to pay $100 plus/month for an old 4 room HDB flat at Prince Charles Crescent. Yes, those houses near the demolished Alexandra Post Office and Crescent Girls' School.

 

As society progresses, we no longer rent but "buy" the HDB flats and this is where the problem starts. Everyone becomes greedy and starts to turn to these public housing for quick 6 -figure profits, locals and foreigners, all alike.

 

We should revert back to the old renting system. This way we could also eradicate the problems of xmms coming here to marry old local Ah gongs and demand the profits from HDB sales.

 

Too many such cases from Wanbao and Shin min.

 

 

revert back? this is like giving people 6 months bonus for 5 years then tell them everything freeze from now on, worse even to expect a pay cut.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Jman888

[TVT]

 

why would a PR want to come back to singapore again when they are done leeching on us?

 

maybe as tourists instead bah?

 

Could be those PR who are younger and left, then CMI in their own country, then try to come back Singapore again.