Puthucheary scoffs at NMP Lien

[1fast1]

 

If it's not that high, then why still wanna push for free? Govt already subsidize quite alot isn't it, and there are lots of fund to those that really can't cope isn't it?

 

Not trying to support any party, but if they really wanna ask for free education, ask for Tertiary Education, thats the expensive one...

 

Nowadays parents pay 1 month tuition fee for 1 subject is likely more expensive for 1 full year of primary school fees I guess....

 

I think the key thing to realise is the value of the *gesture*. Making pre-tertiary education totally free for citizens (and not for PRs or FTs) will be seen as a winning gesture by the ruling party. And since the subsidies are already substantial, why not go the extra mile and make the whole thing free?

 

With regard to Tertiary education, I acknowledge it's very expensive. The government already subsides many courses of study (and gets it back (at least in some cases) from the graduates by bonded service in the government sector). I am aware that Tertiary education is free in some places, e.g. Sweden. But the degrees from those countries are often not well-recognised outside the country. Also, the costs of adopting the exact same practice in Singapore may be prohibitive, and will almost certainly lead to an actually higher tax burden.

 

But what I do want to see stop immediately is the active recruiting of foreign students with "full-ride" scholarships to our local Unis. Why give foreigners a privilege that is not extended to our local-born guys and girls? How can all those enrolment drives held in Chinese job fairs ever be justified?

 

There are prestigious Universities that actively solicit foreign student enrolment. But the usual scenario is when the local born students pay much less than "market rate" for the same education because of subsidies. The foreign students pay full rate, so they help to prop up the Uni economically. Even this model has more than its fair share of critics in those countries. But at least one cannot say it's unfair to the local citizenry. In contrast, the model used here - where citizens pay more than the foreigners being "wooed" is just plain wrong.

 

And, when it comes down to it, education is a basic right of citizens in any country in the modern world. Rights must always be commensurate with obligations in an equitable society. Somebody mentioned the NS that male citizens serve. I have no quibble with the need to serve National Service, but why not pay our conscripts at the same scale that regulars are paid? We all know there are families that really struggle when their able-bodied sons are conscripted. Won't paying them more go a long way in alleviating that burden?

 

The same applies to CPF, of course. Our CPF - ostensibly begun as a compulsory savings programme - has effectively morphed into an enforced money-lending program (where the creditors are the citizens and the debtor is the gahmen). Singapore has the largest (or one of the largest) public debt figures (and it's pretty much all due to the CPF programme). Fine, we get a nominal return on the money, but there are many people who can do much, much better with that money. If it's really *our* money shouldn't we be able to invest it as we see fit? This is yet another financial obligation that every Singaporean faces - where is the commensurate right or privilege that comes with it?

 

TL;DR message: Does it really seem equitable to talk about harsh economic realities when it comes to the gahmen subsidising its citizens, but not the other way around? Shouldn't the door swing both ways? I get that the gahmen is very scared of creating a "welfare state" (which has been a bogeyman mantra for so many decades that I've lost count) - but I believe they can definitely do more than they're doing.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Turboflat4

[Sabian]

I get that the gahmen is very scared of creating a "welfare state" (which has been a bogeyman mantra for so many decades that I've lost count) - but I believe they can definitely do more than they're doing.

 

You keep writing such posts makes it difficult for me cos I gotta praise 7 others just so I can pruss 5 for you post...

[Jman888]

 

Maybe Relagsingh is referring to the fact that this puthu fellow is not originally Singaporean/never do NS/etc.

 

 

that one i agree and since he gotten a citizenship, he is eligible to run. However, i was just wondering is this some kind of test that the miw had for the newbie to speak in the parliament and assess them (ok i know you going to ask who assess them)

 

i have a soft spot when come to child development, i agree with the 3-18 getting free education. whether it achieve the result despite some show-off parents opt for something different, it is a good start but it take a while for the people to realise the real goodness in it (not the few dollars a month of sch fee that matters), i hope it can shift the thinking of the parents of current batch and kids in the future.

[Deckbuild]

 

I think the key thing to realise is the value of the *gesture*. Making pre-tertiary education totally free for citizens (and not for PRs or FTs) will be seen as a winning gesture by the ruling party. And since the subsidies are already substantial, why not go the extra mile and make the whole thing free?

 

With regard to Tertiary education, I acknowledge it's very expensive. The government already subsides many courses of study (and gets it back (at least in some cases) from the graduates by bonded service in the government sector). I am aware that Tertiary education is free in some places, e.g. Sweden. But the degrees from those countries are often not well-recognised outside the country. Also, the costs of adopting the exact same practice in Singapore may be prohibitive, and will almost certainly lead to an actually higher tax burden.

 

But what I do what to see stop immediately is the active recruiting of foreign students with "full-ride" scholarships to our local Unis. Why give foreigners a privilege that is not extended to our local-born guys and girls? How can all those enrolment drives held in Chinese job fairs ever be justified?

 

There are prestigious Universities that actively solicit foreign student enrolment. But the usual scenario is when the local born students pay much less than "market rate" for the same education because of subsidies. The foreign students pay full rate, so they help to prop up the Uni economically. Even this model has more than its fair share of critics in those countries. But at least one cannot say it's unfair to the local citizenry. In contrast, the model used here - where citizens pay more than the foreigners being "wooed" is just plain wrong.

 

And, when it comes down to it, education is a basic right of citizens in any country in the modern world. Rights must always be commensurate with obligations in an equitable society. Somebody mentioned the NS that male citizens serve. I have no quibble with the need to serve National Service, but why not pay our conscripts at the same scale that regulars are paid? We all know there are families that really struggle when their able-bodied sons are conscripted. Won't paying them more go a long way in alleviating that burden?

 

The same applies to CPF, of course. Our CPF - ostensibly begun as a compulsory savings programme - has effectively morphed into an enforced money-lending program (where the creditors are the citizens and the debtor is the gahmen). Singapore has the largest (or one of the largest) public debt figures (and it's pretty much all due to the CPF programme). Fine, we get a nominal return on the money, but there are many people who can do much, much better with that money. If it's really *our* money shouldn't we be able to invest it as we see fit? This is yet another financial obligation that every Singaporean faces - where is the commensurate right or privilege that comes with it?

 

TL;DR message: Does it really seem equitable to talk about harsh economic realities when it comes to the gahmen subsidising its citizens, but not the other way around? Shouldn't the door swing both ways? I get that the gahmen is very scared of creating a "welfare state" (which has been a bogeyman mantra for so many decades that I've lost count) - but I believe they can definitely do more than they're doing.

 

Somehow or rather, I quite agree with what you mention above, but as for the FT Uni student, it's more like an exchange program for them so that they can go back and share with their comrades how good SG is so that more FT will come here to invest or stay....

 

[1fast1]

 

You keep writing such posts makes it difficult for me cos I gotta praise 7 others just so I can pruss 5 for you post...

 

Then it should *really* madden you that I just praised your post!

[Tigerwoods]

White cherry ?

[1fast1]

White cherry ?

 

I thought you were going to go with "AhNeh Cherry", like "Neneh Cherry", the singer.

What makes it all the more uncomfortable for me is that I personally know Janil, and have worked closely with him before. He's really not a bad sort, and overall, a bright and hardworking guy. But when they don the garb of the Party, they have to defend its policies, whatever their personal feelings on the matter may be. Sometimes, they're left to defend the indefensible. But I guess that's a choice they made.

[Tigerwoods]

 

 

The fact that Lien Foundation still stands today speaks volumes.

 

Anyway, why would free education not result in equal opportunities? If we look at free education and ensuring that everyone will be given an equal opportunity to step into the working world with a degree in hand, aren't we granting equal opportunities to all?

 

I think the Scandinavian and Denmark's model of education is much better than ours.

he is trying hard to impress his master.

Any extra money they like to say - Show me where to get money to pay for that - Everytime.

But can suddenly find $1.1B to buy buses and pay for YOG one.

[Maxus-MIFA9]

 

To be honest I'm not really concerned abt the topic.

 

What irks me is why this puthu guy is there in the 1st place.

 

I think he walk-in behind a group called : GRC .....

[Tigerwoods]

 

I thought you were going to go with "AhNeh Cherry", like "Neneh Cherry", the singer.

What makes it all the more uncomfortable for me is that I personally know Janil, and have worked closely with him before. He's really not a bad sort, and overall, a bright and hardworking guy. But when they don the garb of the Party, they have to defend its policies, whatever their personal feelings on the matter may be. Sometimes, they're left to defend the indefensible. But I guess that's a choice they made.

I don't think by disagreeing with Lien on this subject is a policy cast in steel within the party.

I think its his personal view.

 

To me, if we can pay millions to bring in foreigners to study and live free from financial burden, we can give free education to our future till 18 yrs old.

 

I hate it when they say must tax here tax there to fund such causes.

[Baal]

he is trying hard to impress his master.

Any extra money they like to say - Show me where to get money to pay for that - Everytime.

But can suddenly find $1.1B to buy buses and pay for YOG one.

that's what I thot also. Just like that xxxxx whom said .......may be due to tightening of fw....... (in response to the Jems ceiling collapse)

 

 

 

Side Track

 

 

 

A CAR UP TO 1600CC & 97KW 76,999 365 615 B CAR ABOVE 1600CC OR 97KW 80,710 350 499 C GOODS VEHICLE & BUS 56,302 265 439 D MOTORCYCLE 4,001 368 483 E OPEN 82,000 193 292

 

Edited March 5, 2014 by Baal

[Mllcg]

what primary and secondary sch students pay for their fees......

 

its as good as free.

 

whats after that is a different story though

[1fast1]

I don't think by disagreeing with Lien on this subject is a policy cast in steel within the party.

I think its his personal view.

 

To me, if we can pay millions to bring in foreigners to study and live free from financial burden, we can give free education to our future till 18 yrs old.

 

I hate it when they say must tax here tax there to fund such causes.

 

About free pre-tertiary education, I agree with you (as should be clear from my last post).

 

With regard to JP's statement - the problem is that if they don't give a reply that defends the gahmen's current stance, then they will not be viewed favourably by the party leadership. And, of course, they wouldn't be "white" MPs without wanting to rise up its ranks. (just noticed your point about "impressing the master" - that's correct).

 

I'm not defending his statements, just saying that I understand his motivation for defending gahmen policy.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Turboflat4

[Chickenfarm]

Life is about choices.

 

When one says he has "no choice"...he had oredy made his choice

The United Kingdon has got free education till tertiery level.

 

Even their stationaries are free. Just push the cart into Her Majesty's stationary oufit and put whatever into your cart...pen, pencil, exercise books, etc. FREE!

 

For them, even medical is free. And yes it is a heavy burden on their government and they are debt ridden. But they persevered.

 

What I cannot tahun is one particular govt in a small little island in this part of the world that kept boasting about the surplus that they were able to accumulate. Machiam it is their good policy that has cut it. BUT!! All these at the expense of whom?

[Jman888]

What I cannot tahun is one particular govt in a small little island in this part of the world that kept boasting about the surplus that they were able to accumulate. Machiam it is their good policy that has cut it. BUT!! All these at the expense of whom?

 

 

that island dun have castles and antique gold mah

[Sabian]

 

Somehow or rather, I quite agree with what you mention above, but as for the FT Uni student, it's more like an exchange program for them so that they can go back and share with their comrades how good SG is so that more FT will come here to invest or stay....

 

 

Meanwhile somewhere in China yesterday:

 

NUS FT grad: Cousin, tell you something, I found this big carrot in SG.

Village scholar: What carrot?

 

NUS FT Grad: The SG government. They offering us a stepping stone to US/ UK/ Australia etc!!!

Village scholar: Are you sure? I heard in SG only they carrot people, not the other way around...

 

NUS FT Grad: We are not the same type of sheep the SG are used to herding. Take the scholarship, if bonded, take it as you are chalking up experience in Singapore. I am going to tell the whole province about it tomorrow morning.

Village scholar: Where do I sign up? My bags are packed.

 

Almost 5 years later on 5 Feb 2019 at a Spring Festival gathering:

 

NUS FT Grad: Cousin, long time no see! How have you been? Still in SG?

Village scholar: Yes, still in SG. My application to USA/ UK/ Australia all failed. You are lucky to have made it to USA....I am applying for a position back in our home town, Li Jaiwei is my idol.

[Mustank]

If his boss, Lhl, suggest the exact same thing

 

I think he will praise the idea until kingdom come

[Sabian]

 

Then it should *really* madden you that I just praised your post!

 

Knn...