MND Press Statement on AHPETC

[Darryn]

 

Someone posted this in TRE

 

“Singapore’s median household income from work rose to $7,870 in 2013, up 4 per cent from 2012″

In an aging society of falling marriage rate, more from the same family are entering the workforce or less are leaving their household to form their own nest – naturally median household income has to increase."

 

===================================================================================================

 

Yeah,

 

I had the same thought - given the coverage that we have had as regards real income, the steps the govt has taken and the news about rising income inequality I wouldn't put it past people to play with statistics.

 

Household income could also mean more houses "amalgamating" given the high house prices recently...

 

But do give the benefit of the doubt in the meantime and take it at face value

[Playtime]

Theres is nothing technically wrong with getting AGO to come audit. Its civil service procedure regardless of who is in power.

But does it solve anything?? Does it really address the big elephant that the govt pretends dont exist??

 

Elephant 1.

There was a clear attempt to disable the TC once WP won, there is no way to deny the AIM, MA & TC staff MIA was no coincidence.

The sitting govt is responsible, is it going to investigate itself when it is on public reord that it will "fix the opposition" and make voters "repent!!!"

This should be a police or even ISD case to investigate.

 

 

Elephant 2.

A GRC TC is like a SME and can even be bigger than many in terms of turn over. Is it logical to have a total hostile change over every few years and expect smooth operation?

Are we electing estate agents or MPs?

 

[Baal]

Yeah,

 

I had the same thought - given the coverage that we have had as regards real income, the steps the govt has taken and the news about rising income inequality I wouldn't put it past people to play with statistics.

 

Household income could also mean more houses "amalgamating" given the high house prices recently...

 

But do give the benefit of the doubt in the meantime and take it at face value

I like that statement.

[Jman888]

Yeah,

 

I had the same thought - given the coverage that we have had as regards real income, the steps the govt has taken and the news about rising income inequality I wouldn't put it past people to play with statistics.

 

Household income could also mean more houses "amalgamating" given the high house prices recently...

 

But do give the benefit of the doubt in the meantime and take it at face value

 

 

how can the household be lesser due to less people getting married but HDB is building and selling more flat?

[Kangadrool]

 

 

how can the household be lesser due to less people getting married but HDB is building and selling more flat?

 

many are offloading to make a profit and bunk in with their parents. Two of my neighbours on the same floor did that for this reason and also new flats are quite "inhabitable" according to them. No prize for guessing who bought over their flats.

 

[Darryn]

Theres is nothing technically wrong with getting AGO to come audit. Its civil service procedure regardless of who is in power.

But does it solve anything?? Does it really address the big elephant that the govt pretends dont exist??

 

Elephant 1.

There was a clear attempt to disable the TC once WP won, there is no way to deny the AIM, MA & TC staff MIA was no coincidence.

The sitting govt is responsible, is it going to investigate itself when it is on public reord that it will "fix the opposition" and make voters "repent!!!"

This should be a police or even ISD case to investigate.

 

 

Elephant 2.

A GRC TC is like a SME and can even be bigger than many in terms of turn over. Is it logical to have a total hostile change over every few years and expect smooth operation?

Are we electing estate agents or MPs?

 

 

I do not want to imply that there is anything "wrong" or that what is being done is improper in any way in this instance.

 

The issue to me is the relationship between the various parties, and the separation between the various powers wielded here.

 

Should the political opponents have the power to launch civil service investigations against one another? In this instance it seems that the WP is under an investigation that a PAP politician "instructed" the AG to start.

 

I've always believed that you should be setting up procedures, as much as efficiency dictates, such that people cannot "cheat". You shouldn't leave it up to "trust" or "integrity" - given the right circumstances I firmly believe that anyone and everyone will be dishonest / cheat / lose their integrity. It just depends on what those circumstances are.

 

Just look to see - despite what is said about being "whiter than white", and all the rounds of vetting they do, PAP politicians have also shown to be fallible and susceptible to temptation.

[Acemundo]

I am Audit Committee Chairman of a public listed company. We have also received a qualified opinion when the new auditors qualified they are not able to obtain opening balances from the previous auditors to verify. I was also told this is industry practice that auditors across different firms do not share information.

 

in the case of Aljunied Town Council, the difficulty in verifying the balances was also due to the handover from the previous Town Council team members belonging to PAP. if they outgoing team don't want to properly account or provide information and trails of the balances, how do you expect the incoming team to cook up the details supporting the balances?

 

the auditors that made the qualified opinion on aljunied town council as a whole which therefore includes the outgoing PAP members that managed the town council. I don't know why PAP and MND are silly enough to make a meal out of this issue? anyone in the accounting and auditing line will know that it is easy for outgoing PAP members to make the accounts look messy by simply refusing to provide details and supporting documents on balances.

http://www.tremeritus.com/2014/02/15/ahpetc-to-mnd-we-need-figures-from-you/

 

 

 

AHPETC to MND: We need figures from you

February 15th, 2014 | Author: Editorial

AHPETC chairman Sylvia Lim

The WP-run Aljunied-Hougang-Punggol East Town Council (AHPETC) has responded to the media statement by the Ministry of National Development (MND) released on the evening of 13 February 2014.

MND highlighted various concerns regarding the auditor’s report on the financial statements of Aljunied-Hougang Town Council (AHTC) for Financial Year 2012.

 

In a media statement on Friday (14 Feb), town council chairman Sylvia Lim said that MND’s observations on the auditors’ report were incomplete and would “mislead the public”. As such, it is necessary to put the MND statement in proper perspective, Ms Lim said.

“The auditors have given us a qualified report. It is not an adverse report. They have also stated clearly that apart from their specific observations, our books, accounts and records have been kept in accordance with the Town Councils Act,” Ms Lim said.

The full audited report can be found at www.ahpetc.sg [Link].

In its media statement, MND highlighted the auditors’ inability to verify certain figures. Ms Lim countered:

With regard to the transfer of monies to the TC Sinking Fund in FY 2012, Ms Lim acknowledged that the TC’s practice of transferring monies to the Sinking Fund after deducting Sinking Fund expenses was an oversight, which has since been rectified.

We do understand the auditors’ plight, as there were information gaps that existed at the handover after the General Election 2011 which to date are still not filled. At FY 2011, the auditors had tried to request information from former auditors, unsuccessfully. Repeated attempts by the Town Council (TC) to obtain information from the former Managing Agent (MA) and government authorities, such as asking MND / the Housing and Development Board regarding $1.12 million which the PAP-run Aljunied TC had recorded as receivables from the Citizens Consultative Committees (CCCs) for Town Improvement Projects, did not yield answers.

Attempts in FY 2012 to get the information were also unsuccessful. Unless those agencies with the required information furnish them to the TC, it is likely that information gaps will remain and the accounts will continue to be qualified every year. In this regard, we note that MND could well be the best party to assist the TC to resolve some of the key information gaps.

 

“This oversight did not result in any loss of monies nor unauthorized spending. The auditors’ advice has been taken to ensure a physical transfer of monies from the Operating Fund of the TC to the Sinking Fund every quarter from now on,” Ms Lim added.

Ms Lim was particularly annoyed by mainstream reports that repeatedly insinuate impropriety in the TC awarding the MA contract to FM Solutions and Services Pte Ltd (FMSS). “These must be debunked,” she said.

 

Ms Lim again set out the circumstances leading to the appointment of FMSS as MA for AHTC in her statement. Immediately after 2011 GE, there was an urgent need to put in place a new MA for Aljunied GRC, as the incumbent MA, previously serving PAP when Aljunied GRC was under PAP, had wanted to be released from the MA contract, thereby putting WP in a difficult position.

 

“At the same time, the Town Council Management System (TCMS) had been sold to Action Information Management Pte Ltd (AIM), a company wholly-owned by the PAP, and could be terminated anytime with one month’s notice. The TC determined that there was no time to call a tender under these circumstances, and the most prudent course of action was to plan for a tender in a year’s time after the proper completion of handing over was better assured,” Ms Lim added.

 

“The TC then decided to appoint FMSS, which comprised key staff from the former Hougang TC, to manage the newly gazetted Aljunied-Hougang Town. FMSS was appointed without tender for only ONE year, a transitional period, principally to oversee key tasks of the handover, using the same rates as the former MA appointed by the PAP for Aljunied TC. An open tender was then called in 2012 for a customary 3-year contract. Although three companies picked up the tender documents, only FMSS submitted a tender. The tender was rigorously evaluated and subject to a special audit.”

 

Ms Lim then challenged MND, “Accordingly, any allegation of impropriety is utterly rejected. Nevertheless, as indicated previously, any authority or anyone believing there was wrongdoing should report the matter to the Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau with whom the TC will fully co-operate.”

 

With regard to MND’s highlighting the auditors’ observations that project management fees to a related party had not been separately disclosed in the accounts, Ms Lim said that it is a standard practice for TCs which engage MAs, including PAP TCs, to include project management as part of the MA services awarded.

 

“As far as we know, TC financial statements do not specify separate reporting for project management fees paid, as these are reported as construction costs for the project or Sinking Fund expenditure. In any event, AHPETC submits quarterly returns to MND on any new contracts awarded to MAs. We are thus puzzled by the auditors’ observation as to why this leads to a qualification of the accounts, but more puzzled by why MND sees this as an issue,” she added.

 

Ms Lim then threw the ball back at MND, “At this point, we continue to fine-tune the town management accounting systems as we operate live on a daily basis. As MND has expressed its concerns over our accounts, we seek its assistance in resolving the issues raised by our auditor, by helping us verify and confirm the various opening figures handed over from the former Aljunied TC. We also welcome any audit by MND which it deems necessary.”

 

 

[Chickenfarm]

I am Audit Committee Chairman of a public listed company. We have also received a qualified opinion when the new auditors qualified they are not able to obtain opening balances from the previous auditors to verify. I was also told this is industry practice that auditors across different firms do not share information.

 

in the case of Aljunied Town Council, the difficulty in verifying the balances was also due to the handover from the previous Town Council team members belonging to PAP. if they outgoing team don't want to properly account or provide information and trails of the balances, how do you expect the incoming team to cook up the details supporting the balances?

 

the auditors that made the qualified opinion on aljunied town council as a whole which therefore includes the outgoing PAP members that managed the town council. I don't know why PAP and MND are silly enough to make a meal out of this issue? anyone in the accounting and auditing line will know that it is easy for outgoing PAP members to make the accounts look messy by simply refusing to provide details and supporting documents on balances.

 

 

The most intelligent post I've read for the day...

[Kb27]

Sore loser want to make sure the winner suffers; along with the people they claim to serve.

 

Repent, and make sure you don't make the same mistake at the voting box.

[Baal]

I am Audit Committee Chairman of a public listed company. We have also received a qualified opinion when the new auditors qualified they are not able to obtain opening balances from the previous auditors to verify. I was also told this is industry practice that auditors across different firms do not share information.

 

in the case of Aljunied Town Council, the difficulty in verifying the balances was also due to the handover from the previous Town Council team members belonging to PAP. if they outgoing team don't want to properly account or provide information and trails of the balances, how do you expect the incoming team to cook up the details supporting the balances?

 

the auditors that made the qualified opinion on aljunied town council as a whole which therefore includes the outgoing PAP members that managed the town council. I don't know why PAP and MND are silly enough to make a meal out of this issue? anyone in the accounting and auditing line will know that it is easy for outgoing PAP members to make the accounts look messy by simply refusing to provide details and supporting documents on balances.

 

I believe its for the consumption of those who just read & believe what the 150th prints.

 

Yes, I agree with ur points.

[Darryn]

Wifey is going through something similar, although on a much smaller scale with her company now.

They got audited by IRAS for GST accounts a few years back.

The problem is,

a) Accountant was different - so records are not continuous

b) Changed company name halfway through the year so there was messiness over the name change in cheques and bank accounts

c) There was different accounting software.

So all in all, some of the records simply don't exist, and things cannot be tracked, some due to operator error and some due to stuff simply being "lost in translation"

 

How to account? Even if intentions were 100% honest it is next to impossible.

 

I am Audit Committee Chairman of a public listed company. We have also received a qualified opinion when the new auditors qualified they are not able to obtain opening balances from the previous auditors to verify. I was also told this is industry practice that auditors across different firms do not share information.

 

in the case of Aljunied Town Council, the difficulty in verifying the balances was also due to the handover from the previous Town Council team members belonging to PAP. if they outgoing team don't want to properly account or provide information and trails of the balances, how do you expect the incoming team to cook up the details supporting the balances?

 

the auditors that made the qualified opinion on aljunied town council as a whole which therefore includes the outgoing PAP members that managed the town council. I don't know why PAP and MND are silly enough to make a meal out of this issue? anyone in the accounting and auditing line will know that it is easy for outgoing PAP members to make the accounts look messy by simply refusing to provide details and supporting documents on balances.

 

 

[Acemundo]

Wifey is going through something similar, although on a much smaller scale with her company now.

They got audited by IRAS for GST accounts a few years back.

The problem is,

a) Accountant was different - so records are not continuous

b) Changed company name halfway through the year so there was messiness over the name change in cheques and bank accounts

c) There was different accounting software.

So all in all, some of the records simply don't exist, and things cannot be tracked, some due to operator error and some due to stuff simply being "lost in translation"

 

How to account? Even if intentions were 100% honest it is next to impossible.

 

 

yep....that is the ground situation. but it also depends on how much auditors wanted to cover for their auditee organisation.

 

I was auditor before, and did audit few sets of very messy books. I actually became their accountant then to clean up the books for them. then my partner signs off the accounts. more messy but no one knows about it.

 

the thing is, if auditors have no incentive or compassion to help the auditee, such things can be easily blown up, whether in same or out of proportion. such problems often exists when there is key staff or management team turnover.

[Playtime]

Actually no need to be in accounting line at all.

Many companies have numerous information systems that they depend on to run the business, if you don't keep them running up to date, or worse you disable them, it will really really screw up the business for a long time before it recovers while a new system is put in place.

 

That's why I insist the aim saga should be investigated as criminal sabotage.

[Acemundo]

Actually no need to be in accounting line at all.

Many companies have numerous information systems that they depend on to run the business, if you don't keep them running up to date, or worse you disable them, it will really really screw up the business for a long time before it recovers while a new system is put in place.

 

That's why I insist the aim saga should be investigated as criminal sabotage.

it is quite ludicrous that AIM saga warrants only a review by MND while this one requires an audit by AGO.

[Cars08]

Town council money is public funds

Ago audits public funds

Ago also audit govt bodies and give them in your face reports

I think the ago reports directly to Donno who

I tot AGO reports goes to Parliament and the Minister in charge will hv to answer for it...I cld be wrong...

[Playtime]

I tot AGO reports goes to Parliament and the Minister in charge will hv to answer for it...I cld be wrong...

This will be awkward. ..

No Minister is really in charge of that TC.

If any Minister is in charge, why than the sabotage?

 

This TC is proving to be a gift that keeps giving.... Not in a way the govt intended.

[Cars08]

This will be awkward. ..

No Minister is really in charge of that TC.

If any Minister is in charge, why than the sabotage?

 

This TC is proving to be a gift that keeps giving.... Not in a way the govt intended.

 

Town Council Act Cap 329a

 

http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;page=0;query=DocId%3Ac4acfc3c-7add-4144-aaa4-5eea6391c95e%20%20Status%3Ainforce%20Depth%3A0;rec=0

[Vooth]

Theres is nothing technically wrong with getting AGO to come audit. Its civil service procedure regardless of who is in power.

But does it solve anything?? Does it really address the big elephant that the govt pretends dont exist??

 

Elephant 1.

There was a clear attempt to disable the TC once WP won, there is no way to deny the AIM, MA & TC staff MIA was no coincidence.

The sitting govt is responsible, is it going to investigate itself when it is on public reord that it will "fix the opposition" and make voters "repent!!!"

This should be a police or even ISD case to investigate.

 

 

Elephant 2.

A GRC TC is like a SME and can even be bigger than many in terms of turn over. Is it logical to have a total hostile change over every few years and expect smooth operation?

Are we electing estate agents or MPs?

 

 

I like the last sentence....