Evening traffic jam vs No evening ERP. Choose 1

[Nzy]

I would choose not paying ERP because whether pay or not pay ERP, there will be jam. LTA just over the year psycho many car users to believe that ERP solve traffic problem... Rubbish. Pui..

 

If no ERP the jam probably worse lo. Many more of my colleagues will be willing to drive if there was no ERP. Now many of them park their cars at home cuz of ERP and since they are staying nearby they don't mind taking public transport to work.

[Kb27]

ERP road 1, and traffic goes to road 2, ERP road 2 and traffic goes to road 3, etc.

At the end of the day, everyone pays for ERP and gets nowhere.

 

Bcuz ERP does not reduce traffic, it diverts them away and sweeps the dirt under the carpet.

[Nodtviedt]

While not wanting to OT or start a hogger vs speedster argument, I do notice that typically just after a congested stretch (Take northbound CTE for one good example, after PIE exit), drivers tend to maintain a slow speed even when the road is clear ahead of them. Many are driving at below 80km/h slowing everyone down behind them, even those on the first lane. Even though the road is clear for them, they have no idea of the effect trickling down to the drivers @ 1km or so behind them. IMHO, they are the real culprits of heavy traffic, if they cannot adapt to change in traffic flow quickly, at least give way to those who can behind them.

 

Honestly, a couple of dollars in ERP not going to deter most drivers, maybe only a very small percentage will opt for change of route or timing. I would say there should be some sort of communal effort amongst road users to aid general traffic conditions too, like some campaigns or something... Even if it means instilling a "Don't give them an excuse to build another ERP" mentality

[Qpik]

with or w/o ERP, there will still be jams. The question is what is tolerable jam. That is subjective as everyone has different levels of tolerance.

 

actually i don't mind the evening ERPs as it does reduce traffic snarls except that some of the locations are a bit of a suspect to me. Eg Marina area (night time and weekends) and CTE northbound.

Agree on northbound cte.

 

Imo, road planning can b quite bad.

 

Very often, witnessed drivers on lane 1 doing last minute exit to pie changi or those crawling slowly just hoping erp gantry switched off. No issue if they keep to slow moving lane but y hog lane 1 n crawl like snail?

 

Luckily I choose minor rds to get home. Longer route but traffic still moves.

[Penknife]

my take:

 

I rather there's no ERP. Coz traffic jam usually affect drivers. I, as a rider, can just do what rider does best.

[Nzy]

ERP road 1, and traffic goes to road 2, ERP road 2 and traffic goes to road 3, etc.

At the end of the day, everyone pays for ERP and gets nowhere.

 

Bcuz ERP does not reduce traffic, it diverts them away and sweeps the dirt under the carpet.

 

I thought that will help with the congestion also. Rather than having all the traffic on Road 1 only. So those who don't mind taking an alternative route or longer route just to avoid ERP will not contribute to the congestion on Road 1. Without ERP, everyone will take the same route.

 

When you divert the traffic away, it reduces the congestion on that road ma.

[Jellandross]

there was once i was in a south asian country capital city. my car only moved prob 200m in 45 min.

 

my classic case was in jakarta when we took a taxi to a customer office around 3pm. as it was a long straight stretch of road in the CBD, we can see the destination building ahead but we're only moving few inches every 5 mins. after 15 minutes we gave up, alighted from the taxi and walked to our destination. when we reached our destination, our taxi was already out of sight, still stuck somewhere around the same spot.

 

will i pay ERP to avoid this kind of jam? hell YES!!!

 

 

I agree! Singapore's traffic jams are tiny compared to Jakarta and Manila. While we might whine about COE costs and ERP, the fact is, if there was no such costs, there will be more vehicles on the roads, and then, the jams will be as bad as maybe KL or Jakarta. IMHO, the worst of SEA is still Manila.

 

Singapore jams, manual car can still tahan. If it's like Manila, I think, I'll never get manual, even if manual was cheaper by a lot. My left leg sure cramp.

 

 

$20-30 might be too much lah, but I support ERP to remain.

 

If you want to remove most of the jam, raise ALL ERP rates between say 5.30-6.30 to $10 or even higher, and other times, just drop back to normal. So the 5.30-6.30pm time slot is the "premium" timeslot, for people who don't want to be stuck in jam at certain time. However, this isn't guarantee of jam free roads, just jam free ERP zones.

 

my memorable manila experience was during a jam, extra road lanes will miraculously be created in real-time. the left-most emergency lane will be used, centre divider marking becomes an extra lane, 3 columns of cars will squeeze into 2 lanes.. etc.. they are really creative in doing their own traffic jam management. that was also how my taxi driver was able to get me to the airport in time. phew...

 

While not wanting to OT or start a hogger vs speedster argument, I do notice that typically just after a congested stretch (Take northbound CTE for one good example, after PIE exit), drivers tend to maintain a slow speed even when the road is clear ahead of them. Many are driving at below 80km/h slowing everyone down behind them, even those on the first lane. Even though the road is clear for them, they have no idea of the effect trickling down to the drivers @ 1km or so behind them. IMHO, they are the real culprits of heavy traffic, if they cannot adapt to change in traffic flow quickly, at least give way to those who can behind them.

 

northbound CTE that stretch just before AMK ave 1 exit, where the old speed camera was, some lane 1 cars will slow to 80km/h. not sure why.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Jellandross

[Kxbc]

 

my classic case was in jakarta when we took a taxi to a customer office around 3pm. as it was a long straight stretch of road in the CBD, we can see the destination building ahead but we're only moving few inches every 5 mins. after 15 minutes we gave up, alighted from the taxi and walked to our destination. when we reached our destination, our taxi was already out of sight, still stuck somewhere around the same spot.

 

will i pay ERP to avoid this kind of jam? hell YES!!!

My case was 9pm in almost pitch darkness as the streets have minimal street lamps. I buay lun also and got out of the car to walk the next 100m to my hotel. My first step out was into a mushy surface (I also don't know what it was) but needless to say, i had to clean my leather shoes in the hotel. Yucks!

[Jellandross]

My case was 9pm in almost pitch darkness as the streets have minimal street lamps. I buay lun also and got out of the car to walk the next 100m to my hotel. My first step out was into a mushy surface (I also don't know what it was) but needless to say, i had to clean my leather shoes in the hotel. Yucks!

 

haha.. good story bro. it's amazing how a little bit of biz travel drama will make us appreciate our home country more. sometimes we really 身在福中不知福.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Jellandross

[Kb27]

 

I thought that will help with the congestion also. Rather than having all the traffic on Road 1 only. So those who don't mind taking an alternative route or longer route just to avoid ERP will not contribute to the congestion on Road 1. Without ERP, everyone will take the same route.

 

When you divert the traffic away, it reduces the congestion on that road ma.

 

Even without ERP, peak hour traffic will divert by itself.

 

When you see a congestion, do you blindly plow straight into the expressway ?

I'm sure you think of alternatives to which is the faster route to go, even to the extend of going the longer way.

 

But people are sheep, they are accustomed to paying for nothing. So ERP is a money making machine and here to stay.

 

When does severe congestion happened ? It's not merely due to peak traffic, but ACCIDENTS or lane closure due to stupid tree pruning, roadworks, road hoggers, etc.

 

Now, why don't we make these people who caused congestions pay instead of hapless victims needing to use the road to go home ?

Edited January 9, 2014 by Kb27

[Nzy]

 

Even without ERP, peak hour traffic will divert by itself.

 

When you see a congestion, do you blindly plow straight into the expressway ?

I'm sure you think of alternatives to which is the faster route to go, even to the extend of going the longer way.

 

But people are sheep, they are accustomed to paying for nothing. So ERP is a money making machine and here to stay.

 

When does severe congestion happened ? It's not merely due to peak traffic, but ACCIDENTS or lane closure due to stupid tree pruning, roadworks, road hoggers, etc.

 

Now, why don't we make these people who caused congestions pay instead of hapless victims needing to use the road to go home ?

 

Not many will divert just because of heavy traffic. I have been in a few of my colleagues cars and they also won't bother to change route even if there is a huge jam. They just stick to their usual route. But when there is ERP, they will find an alternative route.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Nzy

[Acemundo]

Authorities say that ERP is to control traffic conditions to optimise traffic flow. And that is why they installed evening ERP so that we can all stagger our journey timings home.

 

Would you support no evening ERP (maybe except for Orchard Road area) and run the high risk of being stuck in traffic jams or stick with existing situation?

I don't mind paying erp for no jams provided we don't have this thing called COE we paid upfront!

[Strat]

IMO, ERP has minimum effect when the COE is low .. the roads are jammed as there are too many cars on the roads...

[Myxilplix]

After commuting daily from North to South and back again, basically the entire length of SLE and CTE daily, I went for option C.

 

I moved house. Now my daily commute is 5-10 minutes, no erp no jam

[Acemundo]

IMO, ERP has minimum effect when the COE is low .. the roads are jammed as there are too many cars on the roads...

I believe COE negates the effects of ERP. and if we take away COE, then more reason to charge high ERP.

[Baal]

 

northbound CTE that stretch just before AMK ave 1 exit, where the old speed camera was, some lane 1 cars will slow to 80km/h. not sure why.

Years of exposure to Classical Conditioning.

I don't mind paying erp for no jams provided we don't have this thing called COE we paid upfront!

If that happens, not just ERP liao loh.....satellite charging...

[Baal]

 

Not many will divert just because of heavy traffic. I have been in a few of my colleagues cars and they also won't bother to change route even if there is a huge jam. They just stick to their usual route. But when there is ERP, they will find an alternative route.

hey u toking bout me !. But also depends on how mentally drained I am....(if its after work, always drained ) Week day peak hour, by the time see the sign jam/massive jam, too late liao....

[Jellandross]

I believe COE negates the effects of ERP. and if we take away COE, then more reason to charge high ERP.

 

not entirely true. COE is the fundamental mechanism to allow a forecastable number of new cars to be put on the road. ERP is the second mechanism to subsequently manipulate existing car population away from certain road areas to manage congestion.

 

imagine tomorrow the govt announce no more COE, what will happen? BMW 3 series at $150K, wah so cheap, everybody wants to own a beemer. toyota altis at $70K, mai tu liao. there will no longer be an absolute on/off mechanism to control incremental car population and i think the consequence is not difficult to imagine. even if high (but not exorbitant high) ERP is implemented by then, i believe it will already be less effective because drivers will still drive the hell out of the car that they already paid for.

 

i'm thinking perhaps if GPS-based ERP toll charging is implemented, it may be a way to do away with COE. let's say if a driver is being charged by mileage the moment his car started moving (like taxi), they will think twice before using their cars unnecessarily. on top of that, to discourage cars from entering CBD or certain congested areas, an exorbitant one-time toll like $100 may be charged. with this system, i think even if car prices are made really affordable, car owners will think thrice every time they start their engine. it transforms car ownership from a capex-based to a utility-based expenditure.

 

and since i'm not a politician, i'm not worried about what political and social backlash this mad plan will create heh heh.