Why does Japanese not to use TC on Family cars?

[Quantum]

As the topic, wonder why Japanese family cars always have lower performance than same category Conti cars, Conti cars almost all used TC in their engine, even if 1.6L normal family car also can easily produce above 150hp, and with very good FC about 17km/L, but same category Japanes car non-TC only can produce 110 to 120hp and bad FC 13km/L

I don't understand, since Japan is a very take care energy saving country, and TC can save fuel and increase power, except Subaru like to use TC and other maker's racing cars to use TC, why does they don't use TC on common family cars?

[Twich]

As the topic, wonder why Japanese family cars always have lower performance than same category Conti cars, Conti cars almost all used TC in their engine, even if 1.6L normal family car also can easily produce above 150hp, and with very good FC about 17km/L, but same category Japanes car non-TC only can produce 110 to 120hp and bad FC 13km/L

I don't understand, since Japan is a very take care energy saving country, and TC can save fuel and increase power, except Subaru like to use TC and other maker's racing cars to use TC, why does they don't use TC on common family cars?

Reliability!

Reliability!!!

[Quantum]

Reliability!

Reliability!!!

Do you mean TC Reliability not good?

[Twich]

Do you mean TC Reliability not good?

Do some homework. Then, answer my question.

[Zapp]

I worked for a Japanese company. My customer (dealer) always complianted our products never breakdown for past 20 over years.........and still going strong.

[Vega]

cos the Japanese foresee TC cars will move to Cat B next year.

[Elfenstar]

As the topic, wonder why Japanese family cars always have lower performance than same category Conti cars, Conti cars almost all used TC in their engine, even if 1.6L normal family car also can easily produce above 150hp, and with very good FC about 17km/L, but same category Japanes car non-TC only can produce 110 to 120hp and bad FC 13km/L

I don't understand, since Japan is a very take care energy saving country, and TC can save fuel and increase power, except Subaru like to use TC and other maker's racing cars to use TC, why does they don't use TC on common family cars?

 

To generalise a little, its about the norms/focus.

 

The Europeans tend to focus on overtaking in smaller sized vehicles. In addition their road tax is strongly emissions based. So you end up with small cars with forced induction.

The Americans (and Aussies) tend to focus on 0-60, 1/4 mile timings, and have a penchant for larger cars. Their road tax in most county's is charged on the value of the vehicle. Which is why you end up with mid sized cars in the rest of the world being classified as small, and a larger than average engine size for the vehicle size.

In Asia, most developed nations charge a road tax by engine capacity, with Japan and Korea both having extra low taxes for vehicles under 660 and 800 cc respectively. We also like larger sized vehicles. Since we're used to small engines in large bodies, there's no need and no incentive to use forced induction. You'll get exceptions like nissans note and juke, but those were designed specifically for the european market. This is also the reason why toyota is moving towards the atkinson cycle (at least for their larger engines) which will make their engines greener, at the expense of power.

 

Some will say TC's are less reliable which for bread and butter cars is a bunch of horseshit. Engine/power wise, TC's in this category are no worse/different from raising compression ratio like say in a S2000 or Mazda's Skyactive. The difference is that there is no trade off. The s2000 cant meet emissions, and the skyactive which was designed to meet/exceed them won't make the same power.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Elfenstar

[Tarenn]

 

To generalise a little, its about the norms/focus.

 

The Europeans tend to focus on overtaking in smaller sized vehicles. In addition their road tax is strongly emissions based. So you end up with small cars with forced induction.

The Americans (and Aussies) tend to focus on 0-60, 1/4 mile timings, and have a penchant for larger cars. Their road tax in most county's is charged on the value of the vehicle. Which is why you end up with mid sized cars in the rest of the world being classified as small, and a larger than average engine size for the vehicle size.

In Asia, most developed nations charge a road tax by engine capacity, with Japan and Korea both having extra low taxes for vehicles under 660 and 800 cc respectively. We also like larger sized vehicles. Since we're used to small engines in large bodies, there's no need and no incentive to use forced induction. You'll get exceptions like nissans note and juke, but those were designed specifically for the european market. This is also the reason why toyota is moving towards the atkinson cycle (at least for their larger engines) which will make their engines greener, at the expense of power.

 

Some will say TC's are less reliable which for bread and butter cars is a bunch of horseshit. Engine/power wise, TC's in this category are no worse/different from raising compression ratio like say in a S2000 or Mazda's Skyactive. The difference is that there is no trade off. The s2000 cant meet emissions, and the skyactive which was designed to meet/exceed them won't make the same power.

Good info, I was wondering about the mildness of the skyactive engine.

[Elfenstar]

Good info, I was wondering about the mildness of the skyactive engine.

 

It shouldn't be that mild unless you're talking about the top end. It should be fairly pokey down low and middle. I'm not sure if we're getting the lower comp ratio version for lousier fuel quality though.

[Soya]

Do some homework. Then, answer my question.

 

Ermmmm.....what question did u ask???

As the topic, wonder why Japanese family cars always have lower performance than same category Conti cars, Conti cars almost all used TC in their engine, even if 1.6L normal family car also can easily produce above 150hp, and with very good FC about 17km/L, but same category Japanes car non-TC only can produce 110 to 120hp and bad FC 13km/L

I don't understand, since Japan is a very take care energy saving country, and TC can save fuel and increase power, except Subaru like to use TC and other maker's racing cars to use TC, why does they don't use TC on common family cars?

Conti go TC mainly becoz it needs to meet tough Euro 5 emissions stds.

[Solar]

As the topic, wonder why Japanese family cars always have lower performance than same category Conti cars, Conti cars almost all used TC in their engine, even if 1.6L normal family car also can easily produce above 150hp, and with very good FC about 17km/L, but same category Japanes car non-TC only can produce 110 to 120hp and bad FC 13km/L

I don't understand, since Japan is a very take care energy saving country, and TC can save fuel and increase power, except Subaru like to use TC and other maker's racing cars to use TC, why does they don't use TC on common family cars?

 

Subaru TC don't really save fuel leh...my previous unmodded 2.0 LGT was doing like 7km/l.

[Twich]

I back. For component level, Japanese part is more reliable. Check Motor Trend. There are so many Japanese models.

Next, check JD Power. Japanese car reliability rating is on the top

Monthly sale of Toyota Camry and Honda Accord are nearly 20,000 units. Singapore, yearly COE is less than 30,000.

I just came back from America a few months ago. U can see V6 or V8 engine cars on the road.

[Wt_know]

the euro v emmissions standard had "forced" the european car maker to R&D TC car aggresively

naturally, european car maker focus on TC and this give them an advantage of making small cc car that produce high power

 

the japanese and korean car maker really fcuked up this round ... for years they made fuel efficient car overtaking the european and usa car maker that always emphasis on big cc for high performance ... and with oil price usd$100 ... all big cc car kena screwed

 

the japanese and korean car maker need to wake up ... they are like Nokia & BlackBerry kena beaten up by iPhone and Samsung until eyes black black

 

look at the usa car forum ... last time ... they don't give a fcuk to 4 cyclinder car ... all looking down on 4 cyclinder car and shame 2L cc car

now with bmw/merc/audi 4 cyclinder car pumping out >200 bhp ... many start jumping into 2L TC and with mods pumping out >300 bhp

Edited October 19, 2013 by Wt_know

[Pisces69]

As the topic, wonder why Japanese family cars always have lower performance than same category Conti cars, Conti cars almost all used TC in their engine, even if 1.6L normal family car also can easily produce above 150hp, and with very good FC about 17km/L, but same category Japanes car non-TC only can produce 110 to 120hp and bad FC 13km/L

I don't understand, since Japan is a very take care energy saving country, and TC can save fuel and increase power, except Subaru like to use TC and other maker's racing cars to use TC, why does they don't use TC on common family cars?

 

 

European car makers had no choice cos the emission standards in Europe r very high n only with Turbocharging can these cars pass the tests n b sold in Europe.

 

The Japs wil hv to catch up if ty wan to sell their cars in Europe otherwise ty wil just hv to b contented with the other markets.......but strict emission standards is becoming the norm in the whole world n in time almost every country wil adopt very strict emission standards like the Europeans.

 

But dun b surprised if the Japs wil make their cars even better than the Europeans once ty get down to it.

Do you mean TC Reliability not good?

 

 

Yes. Cost n reliability r other factors.

 

Turbo cars cud spoil faster n replaceing a turbo is damm expensive. Maintenance of a turbo car is also higher.

[Pisces69]

 

Subaru TC don't really save fuel leh...my previous unmodded 2.0 LGT was doing like 7km/l.

 

 

The Japs took the road of puting a turbo to increase power.

 

The Europeans took the road of puting a turbo to improve FC.

[Twich]

Take it easy. Don't worry about Japanese and Korean car makers. What we seen here in Singapore do not reflect other part of the world. There are 2 biggest car market in the world. China and America.

In America, car or truck enginee capacity have to higher. Their interstate high way is hundreds of miles.

Do u know VW Jetta in America is 1.8L. VVTI is one of the efficient engine in the world.

I can still see old Toyota cars on the road in Malaysia. Lastly, Japanese is very focus to develop hybrid car.

Toyota is worth neatly US300B.

[Twich]

 

 

The Japs took the road of puting a turbo to increase power.

 

The Europeans took the road of puting a turbo to improve FC.

Better check the enginee oil level more often.

Very strange! Honda and Toyota enginee reliability are on the top rating.

the euro v emmissions standard had "forced" the european car maker to R&D TC car aggresively

naturally, european car maker focus on TC and this give them an advantage of making small cc car that produce high power

 

the japanese and korean car maker really fcuked up this round ... for years they made fuel efficient car overtaking the european and usa car maker that always emphasis on big cc for high performance ... and with oil price usd$100 ... all big cc car kena screwed

 

the japanese and korean car maker need to wake up ... they are like Nokia & BlackBerry kena beaten up by iPhone and Samsung until eyes black black

 

look at the usa car forum ... last time ... they don't give a fcuk to 4 cyclinder car ... all looking down on 4 cyclinder car and shame 2L cc car

now with bmw/merc/audi 4 cyclinder car pumping out >200 bhp ... many start jumping into 2L TC and with mods pumping out >300 bhp

Really! Did u read the recent law suit against Performance M?

 

 

European car makers had no choice cos the emission standards in Europe r very high n only with Turbocharging can these cars pass the tests n b sold in Europe.

 

The Japs wil hv to catch up if ty wan to sell their cars in Europe otherwise ty wil just hv to b contented with the other markets.......but strict emission standards is becoming the norm in the whole world n in time almost every country wil adopt very strict emission standards like the Europeans.

 

But dun b surprised if the Japs wil make their cars even better than the Europeans once ty get down to it.

 

 

 

Yes. Cost n reliability r other factors.

 

Turbo cars cud spoil faster n replaceing a turbo is damm expensive. Maintenance of a turbo car is also higher.

I would strongly RECOMMEND Saab 95 Aero.

[Wt_know]

hi, can you enlighten me what lawsuit against Performance M

was it in singapore or international?

any link? thanks

 

Really! Did u read the recent law suit against Performance M?

Edited October 19, 2013 by Wt_know