COE refinements to be finalised in next few weeks

[Joseph22]

  On 9/11/2013 at 2:47 AM, Princey_anne said:

They are below 1.6 Volvo, but again after buying you can upgrade the bhp through Volvo polestar.

Oh. 1.6cc diesel turbo?? That's interesting??

[Hotshot85]

Since when did a car become a luxury item? Maybe in the olden days, yea, when few people could afford a car (No COE back then) and only the "rich" towkays could afford one.

 

In this day and age, a car is a basic commodity (Note I did not say a NEED). However, its only in our country where the price is artificially inflated many folds till it becomes to be "seen" as a luxury item. I'm not clamouring for low COE or anything, but please, stop kidding yourselves by saying a car is a luxury item. Land size is not an excuse, nor should it ever be. If land is an issue, do something about it, not sit back and restrict everything while still collecting an obscene amount of money.

 

Find me a country whereby you cannot afford a car just because of some stupid additional taxes thrown in? ZERO. I am not adverse to the smell of second-hand cars, as my current ride is. I probably do not need to buy a new first-hand car as well in the future. However, when a car becomes 5x more expensive compared to elsewhere, you know something is seriously wrong.

 

If anything, since the gov is so adamant about keeping car prices expensive here, then I say, keep it. But use all the profits from COE/ERP/Road tax/etc etc to upgrade our road networks into multi-tiered ones throughout. Nothing difficult to achieve. Nor particularly expensive. In fact, I reckon with the yearly revenue generated they would still have spare change when everything is said and done. So, they could go ahead and still insist on keeping COE, but there wouldn't be any need for a quota since the roads won't be jammed at all. And its not like everyone would suddenly be able to splurge on a car even if the cost of COE does drop since its quota-less. Maybe by then, the price would be dictated by some other factor, rather than supply vs demand. I sure as hell wouldn't mind paying a 70K COE if our roads do become multi-tiered and almost free of jams.

 

This would also cater to alot of the elitist pay-full-cash people that seem to think that the roads only belong to them. I can comfortably afford a ride, but do I wish to give a whole lump sum in one go? No. Do I look down on someone who prefers a loan? No. How I wish to settle the payment for my ride is my own prerogative, and shouldn't be used to judge a person's ability and eligibility, or lack thereof, to afford one.

 

A "first world" country shouldn't adopt reactionary measures, but rather, proactive ones. All of the transport policies thus far have been ... mehhh.

[Princey_anne]

  On 9/11/2013 at 3:00 AM, Joseph22 said:

Oh. 1.6cc diesel turbo?? That's interesting??

Not sure if it is turbo but may be able to upgrade.

[Simplecar]

  On 9/11/2013 at 1:37 AM, Lalaisgongon said:

Yea. so we increase COE to meet demand. then demand goes up again. Every singaporean own 1 car. Then people want variety want to own different model/ different colour. COE go back up... Then people come out say, Eh garmen, why you no look after our needs for cheap car, come come you , create car company give us cheaper car....

Die la like that.

Never ever increase supply of COEs! The roads during peak ours are already quite bad. Including expressways (how to be expressways when your average speeds are low?)

 

We must slowly reduce the car population whilst ramping up good public transport.

 

 

[Naimed]

  On 9/11/2013 at 1:23 AM, Davidtch said:

That means i can buy Golf TSI 122hp with Cat A COE. After that, remap to 140hp. Isn't that a loophole then?

 

There are definitely opportunities for people to do that. However, the numbers should be insignificant enough for LTA to worry about? Just like dropping B18s into Civics. Can do, but dont get caught?

[Simplecar]

  On 9/11/2013 at 3:01 AM, Hotshot85 said:

Since when did a car become a luxury item? Maybe in the olden days, yea, when few people could afford a car (No COE back then) and only the "rich" towkays could afford one.

 

In this day and age, a car is a basic commodity (Note I did not say a NEED). However, its only in our country where the price is artificially inflated many folds till it becomes to be "seen" as a luxury item. I'm not clamouring for low COE or anything, but please, stop kidding yourselves by saying a car is a luxury item. Land size is not an excuse, nor should it ever be. If land is an issue, do something about it, not sit back and restrict everything while still collecting an obscene amount of money.

 

Find me a country whereby you cannot afford a car just because of some stupid additional taxes thrown in? ZERO. I am not adverse to the smell of second-hand cars, as my current ride is. I probably do not need to buy a new first-hand car as well in the future. However, when a car becomes 5x more expensive compared to elsewhere, you know something is seriously wrong.

 

If anything, since the gov is so adamant about keeping car prices expensive here, then I say, keep it. But use all the profits from COE/ERP/Road tax/etc etc to upgrade our road networks into multi-tiered ones throughout. Nothing difficult to achieve. Nor particularly expensive. In fact, I reckon with the yearly revenue generated they would still have spare change when everything is said and done. So, they could go ahead and still insist on keeping COE, but there wouldn't be any need for a quota since the roads won't be jammed at all. And its not like everyone would suddenly be able to splurge on a car even if the cost of COE does drop since its quota-less. Maybe by then, the price would be dictated by some other factor, rather than supply vs demand. I sure as hell wouldn't mind paying a 70K COE if our roads do become multi-tiered and almost free of jams.

 

This would also cater to alot of the elitist pay-full-cash people that seem to think that the roads only belong to them. I can comfortably afford a ride, but do I wish to give a whole lump sum in one go? No. Do I look down on someone who prefers a loan? No. How I wish to settle the payment for my ride is my own prerogative, and shouldn't be used to judge a person's ability and eligibility, or lack thereof, to afford one.

 

A "first world" country shouldn't adopt reactionary measures, but rather, proactive ones. All of the transport policies thus far have been ... mehhh.

The only thing seriously wrong is that we have too many people wanting to get a car despite the high price.

 

 

[Lalaisgongon]

  On 9/11/2013 at 3:01 AM, Hotshot85 said:

Since when did a car become a luxury item? Maybe in the olden days, yea, when few people could afford a car (No COE back then) and only the "rich" towkays could afford one.

 

In this day and age, a car is a basic commodity (Note I did not say a NEED). However, its only in our country where the price is artificially inflated many folds till it becomes to be "seen" as a luxury item. I'm not clamouring for low COE or anything, but please, stop kidding yourselves by saying a car is a luxury item. Land size is not an excuse, nor should it ever be. If land is an issue, do something about it, not sit back and restrict everything while still collecting an obscene amount of money.

 

Find me a country whereby you cannot afford a car just because of some stupid additional taxes thrown in? ZERO. I am not adverse to the smell of second-hand cars, as my current ride is. I probably do not need to buy a new first-hand car as well in the future. However, when a car becomes 5x more expensive compared to elsewhere, you know something is seriously wrong.

 

If anything, since the gov is so adamant about keeping car prices expensive here, then I say, keep it. But use all the profits from COE/ERP/Road tax/etc etc to upgrade our road networks into multi-tiered ones throughout. Nothing difficult to achieve. Nor particularly expensive. In fact, I reckon with the yearly revenue generated they would still have spare change when everything is said and done. So, they could go ahead and still insist on keeping COE, but there wouldn't be any need for a quota since the roads won't be jammed at all. And its not like everyone would suddenly be able to splurge on a car even if the cost of COE does drop since its quota-less. Maybe by then, the price would be dictated by some other factor, rather than supply vs demand. I sure as hell wouldn't mind paying a 70K COE if our roads do become multi-tiered and almost free of jams.

 

This would also cater to alot of the elitist pay-full-cash people that seem to think that the roads only belong to them. I can comfortably afford a ride, but do I wish to give a whole lump sum in one go? No. Do I look down on someone who prefers a loan? No. How I wish to settle the payment for my ride is my own prerogative, and shouldn't be used to judge a person's ability and eligibility, or lack thereof, to afford one.

 

A "first world" country shouldn't adopt reactionary measures, but rather, proactive ones. All of the transport policies thus far have been ... mehhh.

 

 

Like that you go run for the minster looo, but before that what good ideas you have to improve the road networks that the goverment is not alr doing?

these things take time.

 

maybe a 70 k coe you have some jam, compared to no coe in bangkok where is all day jam.

maybe 210k COE will give you your jam free land.

 

I dont think this measure is great, but it the better side of two evils. and you cannot simply say, just cause we pay them a million, they have to come up with better ideas. So now, if they dont take a million dollar salary, they can heck care their job??!

 

 

In economics, a luxury good is a good for which demand increases more than proportionally as income rises, in contrast to a "necessity good", for which demand is not related to income. (google it)

 

Hence car is a luxury good. if it is basic, people won't be buying new cars....

 

 

OH and, i think they are spending one upgrading have you seen our new 4.3 billion dollar 5 km expway ??

 

let me refer you to Marina Coastal Expressway

Edited September 11, 2013 by Lalaisgongon

[Lalaisgongon]

  On 9/11/2013 at 3:07 AM, Naimed said:

There are definitely opportunities for people to do that. However, the numbers should be insignificant enough for LTA to worry about? Just like dropping B18s into Civics. Can do, but dont get caught?

 

 

then again, you can chip youre cherry QQ if you really wanted to do it... maybe blow a gearbox or two. but sure. I dont think BHP is a huge consideration when people buy cars locally.

[inlinesix]

  On 9/11/2013 at 3:07 AM, Naimed said:

There are definitely opportunities for people to do that. However, the numbers should be insignificant enough for LTA to worry about? Just like dropping B18s into Civics. Can do, but dont get caught?

Currently, 1.4TSI has 2 version, 122hp & 140hp. VW Sg can always import the 122hp version & sell to end user. They can sub-con the remapping to 3rd party (like MTM).

 

 

[Resident]

I don't see a problem with the so called "slower" cars. Most come with 4 doors and space for 5. Singapore is a small place, full of traffic lights already and one is sharing the roads with so many other cars. Fuel economy wise, the basic Japanese models can be pretty frugal and maintenance free, so long as one controls your foot.

[Hydrocarbon]

  On 9/11/2013 at 1:08 AM, Wishxsr said:

Should they own a public housing here? And i think car are not really a luxury item to alot of singaporean as they need it for work purpose, family & etc. When the time the 6.9Mil is here, really cant imagine how many locals here can even afford a MIC car.

 

If you look northwards, you'll see a certain country with similar policies as you have mentioned. These are protectionist measures and in the long run, wouldn't serve the society well, as a whole.

 

I suggest looking beyond ourselves, and instead of complaining that we need a car for whatever purpose (there are many people with many excuses, and those excuses are precisely what they are, excuses), find a way to afford it in the current environment.

 

Here's a quote for you, and everyone else complaining about the affordability of a car. Or lack thereof.

 

 

[Lalaisgongon]

  On 9/11/2013 at 3:23 AM, Resident said:

I don't see a problem with the so called "slower" cars. Most come with 4 doors and space for 5. Singapore is a small place, full of traffic lights already and one is sharing the roads with so many other cars. Fuel economy wise, the basic Japanese models can be pretty frugal and maintenance free, so long as one controls your foot.

http://www.sgcarmart.com/news/article.php?AID=8764

 

"o meet the criteria of engine capacity and power output for CAT A, automotive manufacturers and dealers will be inclined to market vehicles with outdated technologies that are less fuel-efficient and thus contribute to more CO2 emissions. Often, these outdated models have also equally-dated safety features, if at all any, which will still meet Singapore's low safety regulations."

 

I thus refer you to the above

[Lalaisgongon]

  On 9/11/2013 at 3:23 AM, Hydrocarbon said:

If you look northwards, you'll see a certain country with similar policies as you have mentioned. These are protectionist measures and in the long run, wouldn't serve the society well, as a whole.

 

I suggest looking beyond ourselves, and instead of complaining that we need a car for whatever purpose (there are many people with many excuses, and those excuses are precisely what they are, excuses), find a way to afford it in the current environment.

 

Here's a quote for you, and everyone else complaining about the affordability of a car. Or lack thereof.

 

 

[Naimed]

  On 9/11/2013 at 3:14 AM, Lalaisgongon said:

then again, you can chip youre cherry QQ if you really wanted to do it... maybe blow a gearbox or two. but sure. I dont think BHP is a huge consideration when people buy cars locally.

 

For CAT A B&B group, most of them (Altis, Civic, Avante, Latio...etc) wont contemplate chipping or reflashing ECUs. What is that 10% more bhp/torque to them? Perhaps those getting 'sporks' car in that CAT will be more likely to do so but very small numbers la.

 

Some Cherry QQs, Getz and Picantos can be quite aggresive when driving up from the back...with their HIDs shining straight into my rear view mirror. That, I'm more concern with.

[Knoobie]

  On 9/11/2013 at 3:01 AM, Hotshot85 said:

Since when did a car become a luxury item? Maybe in the olden days, yea, when few people could afford a car (No COE back then) and only the "rich" towkays could afford one.

 

In this day and age, a car is a basic commodity (Note I did not say a NEED). However, its only in our country where the price is artificially inflated many folds till it becomes to be "seen" as a luxury item. I'm not clamouring for low COE or anything, but please, stop kidding yourselves by saying a car is a luxury item. Land size is not an excuse, nor should it ever be. If land is an issue, do something about it, not sit back and restrict everything while still collecting an obscene amount of money.

 

Find me a country whereby you cannot afford a car just because of some stupid additional taxes thrown in? ZERO. I am not adverse to the smell of second-hand cars, as my current ride is. I probably do not need to buy a new first-hand car as well in the future. However, when a car becomes 5x more expensive compared to elsewhere, you know something is seriously wrong.

 

If anything, since the gov is so adamant about keeping car prices expensive here, then I say, keep it. But use all the profits from COE/ERP/Road tax/etc etc to upgrade our road networks into multi-tiered ones throughout. Nothing difficult to achieve. Nor particularly expensive. In fact, I reckon with the yearly revenue generated they would still have spare change when everything is said and done. So, they could go ahead and still insist on keeping COE, but there wouldn't be any need for a quota since the roads won't be jammed at all. And its not like everyone would suddenly be able to splurge on a car even if the cost of COE does drop since its quota-less. Maybe by then, the price would be dictated by some other factor, rather than supply vs demand. I sure as hell wouldn't mind paying a 70K COE if our roads do become multi-tiered and almost free of jams.

 

This would also cater to alot of the elitist pay-full-cash people that seem to think that the roads only belong to them. I can comfortably afford a ride, but do I wish to give a whole lump sum in one go? No. Do I look down on someone who prefers a loan? No. How I wish to settle the payment for my ride is my own prerogative, and shouldn't be used to judge a person's ability and eligibility, or lack thereof, to afford one.

 

A "first world" country shouldn't adopt reactionary measures, but rather, proactive ones. All of the transport policies thus far have been ... mehhh.

 

Reason why govt here tax so high on cars is because we have limited land/road. the ratio of people wanting to use the road vs availability has surpass a healthy balance. if we do not have such high tax in place, every where in Singapore will be like KL, Jakarta, NYC. Where jams are epic and never ending.

 

We are lucky in the sense that this is a small country. We are not like M'sia/US/Indonesia where they have kampungs/countryside. We can easily implement the "COE" here to control car population. Whereas, it is impossible to implement it in other countries. The people living in places far from cities, NEED to have a car. It doesn't make sense to have bus or train services to be provided for those handful of residents in the outskirts.

 

However, in Singapore we do not have such situations and that is why we can use COE to control car population. We have accessible public transport at affordable rates to cater to almost every part of the country. Although claim to be first-class, but not reliable, still it does provide most of the needs. Thus, it makes owning a car in Singapore deemed as not necessary object and have to be deterred as much as possible.

 

As you mentioned, there is no other country that taxes so much on owning a car. Also, there is no other country of our size with no natural resources, able to stand so well as the financial state of this country.

[Mockngbrd]

"Bosch lists two unfavourable outcomes: Entry of outdated technologies and manufacturers encoding limiters in vehicles"

 

"In response, the authority said it will not approve car models which have maximum power output specification that is lower than the same models approved previously, or what has been declared in other markets. LTA has also brought in chassis dynamometers for the inspection of vehicle engine power."

 

"On car manufacturers bringing in models which are less environmentally-friendly, the LTA said carbon emissions are already accounted for under the Carbon Emissions-based Vehicle Tax $cheme."

 

http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/top-s...e-criterion-cat

[Kar_lover]

  On 9/11/2013 at 2:40 AM, Lalaisgongon said:

Good summary i might add.

 

Swift sport also got the shorter end of the stick btw think thats more impactful than the veloster

 

Thanks.

 

Ya, SSS all go into the same grave with VNA and VT.

[Lalaisgongon]

  On 9/11/2013 at 3:48 AM, Mockngbrd said:

"Bosch lists two unfavourable outcomes: Entry of outdated technologies and manufacturers encoding limiters in vehicles"

 

"In response, the authority said it will not approve car models which have maximum power output specification that is lower than the same models approved previously, or what has been declared in other markets. LTA has also brought in chassis dynamometers for the inspection of vehicle engine power."

 

"On car manufacturers bringing in models which are less environmentally-friendly, the LTA said carbon emissions are already accounted for under the Carbon Emissions-based Vehicle Tax $cheme."

 

http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/top-s...e-criterion-cat

 

 

 

Sigh, bad times to be car dealers.

 

need to have car that is lower than 130 bhp but at the same time high efficiency. Siao liao la.

 

But it doesnt deal with the fact what if they bring in more s80 d2? 115 bhp 5 series size.

 

stylo but no power.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Lalaisgongon