COE refinements to be finalised in next few weeks

[Simplecar]

  On 8/28/2013 at 3:34 PM, Elfenstar said:

Yup we discussed this in the focus group, but this nice lady (who drove an audi TT) said if she wanted another car, she could then just buy it in somebody elses name So essentially even if it can be fair, it's hard to catch people that circumvent it, and we'll be back at square one but with a secondary black market of people who will try and earn by "donating" their particulars

Yup. At least there is a limit to how many cars one household can possess - based on number of licenses.

 

The point is not to check on the household to make sure no one is buying for another. eg get in wife's name making it two cars for two adults (if children do not have licence yet), or in aged parent's name (those who may or may not drive anymore)

[Wind30]

  On 8/28/2013 at 3:31 PM, Elfenstar said:

No there isn't one seller however you can still buy from someone else with or without a COE in hand so what's the difference? Not to mention every seller knows you need to get a car within a certain timeframe and that only you can get it Why give it to you cheaper than someone who doesn't have to buy a car?

 

Let's use property as another analogy. If you are selling a house and you know your potential buyer MUST get a house as he has already sold his, would you be as flexible in negotiations if you weren't desperate?

 

Ok, that sound like a valid argument. Then why cant we buy a car first then bid for coe later ourselves. That is what is happening currently now. The dealers does not have Coe when they sell their cars. Whatever contracts we are using now, will remain the same except the buyers bid for their own Coe

[Joseph22]

  On 8/29/2013 at 12:22 AM, Wind30 said:

Ok, that sound like a valid argument. Then why cant we buy a car first then bid for coe later ourselves. That is what is happening currently now. The dealers does not have Coe when they sell their cars. Whatever contracts we are using now, will remain the same except the buyers bid for their own Coe

buy liao you cannot get COE how?? are you willng to take the risk??

 

anyway they need COE to registered the car with LTA for car plate license.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Joseph22

[Simplecar]

  On 8/29/2013 at 1:06 AM, Joseph22 said:

buy liao you cannot get COE how?? are you willng to take the risk??

 

anyway they need COE to registered the car with LTA for car plate license.

What we can do is place a booking for a car without COE. Should we not proceed with the sale after a certain time like 6 months, we pay the AD say $500 for the trouble and get back the rest of the deposit back.

 

What does the AD lose? A potential sale. Also, once we secure the COE, we have say 6 months to register it. So cars that are not yet in SGP can take their own time to come to our shores after we confirm the sale (after we secure the COE). Unforeseen circumstances can always be mitigated by an extension of the COE validity period, subject to conditions.

 

A little convoluted, but at least we get to choose our cars (can even book 3 cars and not proceed with 2 afterwards, forfeiting a processing fee) and then book.

 

The main purpose is NOT to LINK our cars to the COE, and making sure we dont get pressured to get a COE or car, whichever comes first. The loss should be minimal - a booking fee for the car. Those who dont register a car with a secured COE will then be barred from bidding for a certain amount of time.

 

Hope I am thinking straight here...

[OTOT]

  On 8/29/2013 at 1:27 AM, Simplecar said:

What we can do is place a booking for a car without COE. Should we not proceed with the sale after a certain time like 6 months, we pay the AD say $500 for the trouble and get back the rest of the deposit back.

 

What does the AD lose? A potential sale. Also, once we secure the COE, we have say 6 months to register it. So cars that are not yet in SGP can take their own time to come to our shores after we confirm the sale (after we secure the COE). Unforeseen circumstances can always be mitigated by an extension of the COE validity period, subject to conditions.

 

A little convoluted, but at least we get to choose our cars (can even book 3 cars and not proceed with 2 afterwards, forfeiting a processing fee) and then book.

 

The main purpose is NOT to LINK our cars to the COE, and making sure we dont get pressured to get a COE or car, whichever comes first. The loss should be minimal - a booking fee for the car. Those who dont register a car with a secured COE will then be barred from bidding for a certain amount of time.

 

Hope I am thinking straight here...

 

If indeed the so call processing fees is only $500 and valid for 6 months, then its worth considering. Look at property sales, if don't sign OTP within 14 days, you forfeit the 1% downpayment. The shrewed AD will sure take advantage loh..

COE is linked to car ownership. why de-link when it was designed for this purpose??? It was not designed to allow easy and cheap car ownership..

[Ben5266]

  On 8/28/2013 at 6:55 PM, Elfenstar said:

Other than the bicycle threads, I don't think I've been this active in MCF since before RadX and co became mods

you gone mia since android beat ios...

[Ben5266]

  On 8/28/2013 at 10:29 PM, Camrysfa said:

Got to ask whether the motor trader

[Wt_know]

if COE is what it is ... one should SECURE the COE first than can buy car

that's the right process ... not place a booking and then give 6 months to secure the COE

why must AD hold on the deal for 6 months and for a meagre of $500 penalty not even enough to offset the coffee and cake cost in the showroom

 

one should secure the COE first, then walk into any showroom WITH PRIDE

whichever dealer give you the best deal then you can buy from them

with the COE on hand, they can register the car (ex-stock) within 1 week

if no ex-stock then it is up to the buyer which AD they want to buy from and waiting period

 

the current CAR dealing process is protect the DEALER interest

buyer interest is the the LAST consideration

 

it's time for a CHANGE !

 

now that govt impose 40-50% downpayment, might as well make COE bidding pay by CASH

if COE cost already > 40-50% of the total cost (car + coe) then no further cash downpayment required to dealer (no change in term of current control of financial prudence)

 

  On 8/29/2013 at 1:27 AM, Simplecar said:

What we can do is place a booking for a car without COE. Should we not proceed with the sale after a certain time like 6 months, we pay the AD say $500 for the trouble and get back the rest of the deposit back.

 

What does the AD lose? A potential sale. Also, once we secure the COE, we have say 6 months to register it. So cars that are not yet in SGP can take their own time to come to our shores after we confirm the sale (after we secure the COE). Unforeseen circumstances can always be mitigated by an extension of the COE validity period, subject to conditions.

 

A little convoluted, but at least we get to choose our cars (can even book 3 cars and not proceed with 2 afterwards, forfeiting a processing fee) and then book.

 

The main purpose is NOT to LINK our cars to the COE, and making sure we dont get pressured to get a COE or car, whichever comes first. The loss should be minimal - a booking fee for the car. Those who dont register a car with a secured COE will then be barred from bidding for a certain amount of time.

Hope I am thinking straight here...

Edited August 29, 2013 by Wt_know

[Hydrocarbon]

  On 8/28/2013 at 11:46 PM, Simplecar said:

This is an example of an extreme case. Perhaps they could apply to have some form of subsidy for the condition but still pay full price for the vehicle.

 

Although I dont quite like the word 'subsidy' because people forgot it is a privilege, and not an entitlement.

 

I disagree. Once you give out a subsidy, most times, people will take it as an entitlement.

 

However, why I disagree is because while I believe that the government should give subsidy for medical treatments, the government shouldn't give subsidy for what is essentially a luxury item. If they do, they will have to set up a special agency just to monitor the cases and prevent abuse.

 

Imagine any scenario, whether dialysis patient, or other patients who needs to go to the hospital say 2-3 times a week. Most times, they will have a hospital nearer to their homes, so even if they need specialised transport (cabs) rather than public transport, the cost to them would be probably no more than $20 per journey, which adds up to $40 per day. They don't need to go to the hospital daily. Say a 4 times weekly treatment, will cost $160 a week, or $640 a month. That's already quite a high cost, but bros who own cars will know that the cost of ownership is higher than this amount.

 

So, I vote no for any subsidy of cars, even for the differently abled.

[Simplecar]

  On 8/29/2013 at 1:58 AM, Wt_know said:

if COE is what it is ... one should SECURE the COE first than can buy car

that's the right process ... not place a booking and then give 6 months to secure the COE

why must AD hold on the deal for 6 months and for a meagre of $500 penalty not even enough to offset the coffee and cake cost in the showroom

 

one should secure the COE first, then walk into any showroom WITH PRIDE

whichever dealer give you the best deal then you can buy from them

with the COE on hand, they can register the car (ex-stock) within 1 week

if no ex-stock then it is up to the buyer which AD they want to buy from and waiting period

 

the current CAR dealing process is protect the DEALER interest

buyer interest is the the LAST consideration

 

it's time for a CHANGE !

 

now that govt impose 40-50% downpayment, might as well make COE bidding pay by CASH

if COE cost already > 40-50% of the total cost (car + coe) then no further cash downpayment required to dealer (no change in term of current control of financial prudence)

Why not? what is the loss to the AD? they should not be able to get a hold on us. someone should make them advertise their cars openly without COE. As long as there is a dual system (a car price with COE, and one without), the dealers will play the system, making it unattractive to bid on our own. The current pricing bears this very clearly.

 

Sure, you can say that you have up to 3 months to get your car. Why should consumers be put at risk here?

 

The AD dont have to keep stock in the Free Trade Area. But if they have available stock, they get to sell their car faster. I dont see why not.

 

I agree on your part of the downpayment thing. However, cars are not essential goods. Controlling it seems funny to me. As long as we can unbundle the car-COE thing, the loan thing can be relaxed.

 

Its up to the consumers whether they want to take personal loan just to secure the COE. No way we can control that, can we?

[Simplecar]

  On 8/29/2013 at 2:23 AM, Hydrocarbon said:

I disagree. Once you give out a subsidy, most times, people will take it as an entitlement.

 

However, why I disagree is because while I believe that the government should give subsidy for medical treatments, the government shouldn't give subsidy for what is essentially a luxury item. If they do, they will have to set up a special agency just to monitor the cases and prevent abuse.

 

Imagine any scenario, whether dialysis patient, or other patients who needs to go to the hospital say 2-3 times a week. Most times, they will have a hospital nearer to their homes, so even if they need specialised transport (cabs) rather than public transport, the cost to them would be probably no more than $20 per journey, which adds up to $40 per day. They don't need to go to the hospital daily. Say a 4 times weekly treatment, will cost $160 a week, or $640 a month. That's already quite a high cost, but bros who own cars will know that the cost of ownership is higher than this amount.

 

So, I vote no for any subsidy of cars, even for the differently abled.

Thats why i am not for subsidy, as per my last statement. We must not link subsidies to the car ownership.

 

Just like taxation - the richer have paid their taxes. Why means-testing? Why not treat all medical cases the same?

[Mustank]

  On 8/29/2013 at 1:58 AM, Wt_know said:

if COE is what it is ... one should SECURE the COE first than can buy car

that's the right process ... not place a booking and then give 6 months to secure the COE

why must AD hold on the deal for 6 months and for a meagre of $500 penalty not even enough to offset the coffee and cake cost in the showroom

 

one should secure the COE first, then walk into any showroom WITH PRIDE

whichever dealer give you the best deal then you can buy from them

with the COE on hand, they can register the car (ex-stock) within 1 week

if no ex-stock then it is up to the buyer which AD they want to buy from and waiting period

 

the current CAR dealing process is protect the DEALER interest

buyer interest is the the LAST consideration

 

it's time for a CHANGE !

 

now that govt impose 40-50% downpayment, might as well make COE bidding pay by CASH

if COE cost already > 40-50% of the total cost (car + coe) then no further cash downpayment required to dealer (no change in term of current control of financial prudence)

 

wah!!! i sarpork!!!

[Carnoob]

  On 8/28/2013 at 10:17 AM, Elfenstar said:

As mentioned, when you bring your own COE, you have a more urgent need for a car, so they can afford not to give you a cheaper price and you LL will have to pay or buang your COE. Essentially you're giving them leverage to give you less value.

 

It is a open market, if the car dealer don't want to cater then buy another unless you do do die die want that make and model. Now, dealer bid for us, 6 times cannot get, ask you top-up or give-up so you LL still have to pay more.

 

Why are we so concern that the dealer will "eat" us when we buy our own COE? First, not many people want to bid on their own thus reduced a proportion of buyers, so if 100 COE available only 99 bidders do you think it would still be high?

 

Let's gather the feedback from MCF: -

 

COE bid by buyer = full cash no loan + 10K deposit

 

With this formula, how many of you still think that COE will remain high at 70K? If a car price is $48,000 without COE, deposit needed is $19,200. So how many can bid for COE at $80K?

 

The only REAL concern is that there is no "projection" of attainability and a STRAIGHT DIVE DOWNWARDS in COE premium because most still can't afford 30K full cash how to bid for COE?

 

And for the other problem, buyer asking dealer to bid without LTA knowledge, it is like how to stop student cheating with invigilator around. If it is a law to stop car dealer from bidding, who will dare to break the law just to get business? Once the authority caught 1 or 2 companies doing that, the rest will just stop.

[Hydrocarbon]

  On 8/29/2013 at 2:37 AM, Simplecar said:

Thats why i am not for subsidy, as per my last statement. We must not link subsidies to the car ownership.

 

Just like taxation - the richer have paid their taxes. Why means-testing? Why not treat all medical cases the same?

 

I read your post "Perhaps they could apply to have some form of subsidy for the condition but still pay full price for the vehicle. " as giving subsidy for their condition. I took it to mean that they should pay full price for vehicle, but get some form of subsidy because of their condition.

 

If I understood wrongly, I apologise.

 

Means testing and medical cases are different from cars. Cars are a luxury item, medical care shouldn't be. (I'm not talking about cosmetic medical care / surgery).

[Ngjs]

Bros out there,

 

Why should COE be tied with only 1 car purchase?

 

How about securing a 10yrs COE, but within this 10yrs, owners can change their car as and when they like. Think it's going to benefits everyone, owner + car dealers.

 

Any views with this win-win scenario?

[Matrix0405]

  On 8/29/2013 at 1:58 AM, Wt_know said:

if COE is what it is ... one should SECURE the COE first than can buy car

that's the right process ... not place a booking and then give 6 months to secure the COE

why must AD hold on the deal for 6 months and for a meagre of $500 penalty not even enough to offset the coffee and cake cost in the showroom

 

one should secure the COE first, then walk into any showroom WITH PRIDE

whichever dealer give you the best deal then you can buy from them

with the COE on hand, they can register the car (ex-stock) within 1 week

if no ex-stock then it is up to the buyer which AD they want to buy from and waiting period

 

the current CAR dealing process is protect the DEALER interest

buyer interest is the the LAST consideration

 

it's time for a CHANGE !

 

now that govt impose 40-50% downpayment, might as well make COE bidding pay by CASH

if COE cost already > 40-50% of the total cost (car + coe) then no further cash downpayment required to dealer (no change in term of current control of financial prudence)

 

Totally agree with you. Where got such thing that dealers can hold your order for 6 mths one, and after that so sorry no deal? Where got such thing the dealers can tell u sorry price has changed and we cannot deliver unless you top up, after agreed price. Only dealers protected and buyers shoulder all the risk.

 

[Knoobie]

actually.. i for once feel that it may be good for dealers to bid for us..

due to the high price of the COE, dealers will have to reduce the price of the car to make it more attractive.

if we bid COE first then go into showroom, all the price of the car will be high up in the sky.

coz if i'm the dealer, i'll now go "bo pian. that is your govt and you bid one."

 

[Wt_know]

BEST JOKE FOR THE MONTH ... you win !

 

the one and only reason will dealer reduce car price is NO SALE. their car is sitting in the showroom collecting dust.

why would dealer reduce the car price when COE is fully paid by buyer (and dealer also build in their variable margin inside COE).

whether COE is $10K or $100K the dealer profit margin is maintain and will only INCREASE and not DECREASE

 

if you compare low coe period (ie: < $50k) vs high coe period (ie: >$70k) ... car price actually INCREASE and not DECREASE as you said that "due to high coe price" .... LOL

 

  On 8/29/2013 at 3:50 AM, Knoobie said:

actually.. i for once feel that it may be good for dealers to bid for us..

due to the high price of the COE, dealers will have to reduce the price of the car to make it more attractive.

if we bid COE first then go into showroom, all the price of the car will be high up in the sky.

coz if i'm the dealer, i'll now go "bo pian. that is your govt and you bid one."

Edited August 29, 2013 by Wt_know