LTA focus group discussion

[Ictruall]

Two words for them to consider: Family Nucleus. Learn from HDB.

 

HDB solved the public housing problem effectively but imposed the concept of family nucleus on buying a new HDB flat.

 

Consider the fact that the roads form about 1/3 of land space in Singapore.

 

It is hurting the pockets of many families who truely need a car not for luxury but for necessity. It is just not feasible for a family of 5, of three generations to get a cab or go out in public transport. Especially when the children are really young and the elderly need mobility assistance.

 

Unlike HDB who subsidises the costs of flats (they claim), LTA does not subsidise COEs. In times of lower COE, LTA does not incur a loss.

 

Personally and like many prudent individuals, I put off the purchase of a car for many years till a luxury turned into a necessity with two children and an elderly living under one roof. But the COE was sky high so I prudently settled for a 2nd hand car. As a parent, I cannot help but to think of how many years of enrichment classes I can put my children through just to get a brand new COE.

 

If LTA truely thinks of solving the COE price issue with social equity, a category for families should be considered. It should also be tied to one residential household address (investment units OUT!) formed by a family nucleus. This would be a great help for families in the sandwich class.

 

I am sorry, but I find this somewhat self centred and pathetic.

 

I can understand the necessities of having a reasonable home, sufficient food, reasonable healthcare and transport system and so on but since when is owning a car a necessity ?

 

There are thousands of families of 3Gs and perhaps even a few 4Gs in SGP who manages their families without a car, so how is this bit about COE prices ever a case of social equity ? Many of these families are better of than others as such there will still be competitive bids within such a category.

 

Learn from HDB ? . Have you thought about the consequences of :

Exactly the same car bought at the same time with different COE prices and sold some years later.

Depending on the market prices then, either the one with the lower COE benefits AGAIN or the one with the higher COE is penalised AGAIN.

It is what you mean by social equity ?

 

....and if ever this "necessity" bit was to be entertained, shouldn't a used car be sufficient ? .......... Come on out, isn't then this all about wanting a new car ?

 

Rule of the thumb here is simply to spend on what you can afford.

 

 

[15F]

My personal view on COE.

 

COE should allocate to per household only. Of course LTA will set the COE amount or per household will bid for their own COE.

Loop hole... other household might "buy" the COE from lower income household.

 

Understand for those high income household, they will have more than 3 cars and some even up to 6-10 cars. But do they really drive all 10 cars on the road everyday? LTA can come out with a "transferable" COE tag.

 

Example:

Mr Tan have 6 cars and he likes to drive different car to work everyday.

With the new COE per household regulation, he will only have one "transferable COE tag" registered to his home address.

Meaning all 6 cars are without COE but he can use the "COE tag" on different car on different days.

So he will not hold up 5 COEs sitting at home.

 

Of course Mr Tan can apply for additional "COE tag" because his wife need to drive on that day. The additional COE can be temporary, something like "weekend plate" pass. It is only valid for a day and will cost $100.00 per day.

 

LTA have came out with so many new regulations within this year but the COE prices are still very high. And the number of bids for every fortnight still double the number of allocated quota.

 

I believed even the COE raise to 150k, people will still continue to buy cars. so the problem will still continues.....

 

[Mockngbrd]

some of the suggestions ppl suggest are just........

[Soya]

It is hurting the pockets of many families who truely need a car not for luxury but for necessity. It is just not feasible for a family of 5, of three generations to get a cab or go out in public transport. Especially when the children are really young and the elderly need mobility assistance.

 

 

wow.....a 2nd hand car cannot ferry a family of 5? onli a new car can?

 

 

[Hosaybo]

actually huh, talk here talk there still about price. For those that suggest what family cat lah, dunno what hardship cat lah..... if give you but each cost 70K to 80K like current, I believe still Kpkb.

 

Bottomline.....its all in the cost of coe that people are unhappy about.

[Little_prince]

actually huh, talk here talk there still about price. For those that suggest what family cat lah, dunno what hardship cat lah..... if give you but each cost 70K to 80K like current, I believe still Kpkb.

 

Bottomline.....its all in the cost of coe that people are unhappy about.

 

last time no internet. no one know a car so much cheaper overseas. and come to accept it as normal.

 

now everyone got internet. everyone travels. and they compare and see that a toyota cost a fraction overseas so they KPKB lor.

[Mockngbrd]

Last time have.. but when COE lower, ppl kpkb ERP.

[Ictruall]

So you want a communist system just because everyone wants to drive? Look at the arguments, they want cars for everyone... or rather, they want themselves to be the lowest common denominator.

 

Last time when we cannot afford a car, we save up. Take public while keeping some cash aside every month. Propose to make expensive cars more expensive? See lor, rich people also go buy cat A already. Want to make conti cat A more expensive, the rich people buy Toyota Honda Mazda lor.

 

What I am saying is that approaching the problem by trying to curb the rich is no solution at all! They will always be richer and will just pay more for the cars that used to be affordable to the middle income folks. The only way to allow more people to have more cars is to find ways to make it possible for the roads to accommodate more cars.

 

..... see your points and fully agree while in the Singapore context cars will always come at a high costs....this is the only way to go and those that cannot afford it should just go with the public transport or save up for a used car or even a new car.

 

good point, never crossed my mind this bit on the rich moving down to cat A....maybe they will do this just to annoy those others while in this case, those same others are not likely to move up to cat B.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ungtiong]

wow.....a 2nd hand car cannot ferry a family of 5? onli a new car can?

 

none of the china crap as well hor

[Shiwao]

actually

 

it's just me, why not like our healthcare system?

 

Go by means testing. The higher income pay more.

 

Aboblish COE, implement ERP tracking

 

make parking more expensive

 

Roll out better public transport system, on time on target.

 

Hard to archieve? It just how much we want to PAY.

[Maseratigood]

actually

 

it's just me, why not like our healthcare system?

 

Go by means testing. The higher income pay more.

 

Aboblish COE, implement ERP tracking

 

make parking more expensive

 

Roll out better public transport system, on time on target.

 

Hard to archieve? It just how much we want to PAY.

There is a certain old man, whatever he said, would be done very quickly in his days...... Maybe he should be invited to take the trains/buses today and see with his eyes the delays n congestions. He may just order a thorough and swift improvement. Chances are, it WILL be done, VERY QUICKLY.... We need such an old man!!!

Edited July 5, 2013 by Maseratigood

[Maseratigood]

really what is the ultimate aim?

 

- cheaper COE?

 

 

simply, just agree for gov to increase tax in other areas, like more road tax, more tax in car insurance, higher GST, higher ERP, higher traffic fines.....

 

the real problem is distribution of COE. current method is $$$ which is the fairest method IMO at this moment. Got $$, bigger house, better schools, better holidays etc. How these ppl get rich, they work harder, sacrifice more, take more risk to enjoy their fruits.

 

 

 

Better than lucky draw or even worst, priority staring from the Poor!!!! the SAME system as now just the opposite.

I think people are not happy that the current trend/method of distributing COEs may eventually favor the rich at the expense of the not-rich despite the latter working as hard as they could. If left UN-checked, the current way may end up say 95% of the cars in Spore are owned by only 5% of the population ( the really rich ). Which also could also means most of the road space, a public asset, will be used by only 5% of the population. The other 95% could just suck their thumbs.

 

The use of public assets/space etc should not be the privilege of only 5% of the population, no?

 

When this happens, it's ok, provided the national pledge which tells us about equality, is re-written with the word "equality" deleted

[Hosaybo]

The thing is, the number of rich is growing. Is those falling behind making noise. These are substantial number but in terms of %, they are getting smaller.

[Cluboxed]

Those scholars know nothing about what's happening on the grounds.

 

Look at the mess they created when they implemented the Euro 4 emission standard in 2007 when NONE of the dealers are selling Euro 4 vehicles.

 

They shouldn't even given any bonus (yes, our taxpayer's money).

 

this time will be fine....all diesel cars/commercial are already Euro 5 already...

[Fcw75]

this time will be fine....all diesel cars/commercial are already Euro 5 already...

 

It's too late bro. What was the purpose of implementing the Euro 4 emission then? To have a cleaner environment right?

 

Look at the number of beat up vans and lorries running ard now. Have to than till 2017 before they are all scrap metal.

 

Total failure.

[Fuelsaver]

I think people are not happy that the current trend/method of distributing COEs may eventually favor the rich at the expense of the not-rich despite the latter working as hard as they could. If left UN-checked, the current way may end up say 95% of the cars in Spore are owned by only 5% of the population ( the really rich ). Which also could also means most of the road space, a public asset, will be used by only 5% of the population. The other 95% could just suck their thumbs.

 

The use of public assets/space etc should not be the privilege of only 5% of the population, no?

 

When this happens, it's ok, provided the national pledge which tells us about equality, is re-written with the word "equality" deleted

Some stars on the flag not been practiced IMHO.

 

I m with u on this view, although I'm also for higher downpayment. The latter is achievable if one has worked n saved up for few yrs, for some even within a yr.

 

In order not to favor the rich, some form of cooling measure akin to 2nd property should b implemented. The measure should based on 2 issues -

 

Land is scarce,

 

Increasing cost in any way does not affect the well heeled.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Fuelsaver

[Ungtiong]

I think people are not happy that the current trend/method of distributing COEs may eventually favor the rich at the expense of the not-rich despite the latter working as hard as they could. If left UN-checked, the current way may end up say 95% of the cars in Spore are owned by only 5% of the population ( the really rich ). Which also could also means most of the road space, a public asset, will be used by only 5% of the population. The other 95% could just suck their thumbs.

 

The use of public assets/space etc should not be the privilege of only 5% of the population, no?

 

When this happens, it's ok, provided the national pledge which tells us about equality, is re-written with the word "equality" deleted

 

you meant the younger generation 'taking over' the older generation. More younger generation are degree holders and are entering the market with a much higher starting salary (as one guy mentioned, the LTA already got younger assistant directors). You notice many younger singaporeans are owning cars. Their gf/wife are also probably degree holders with higher paying jobs so a car for the family if definitely easy. Its common to see younger bf/gf BOTH having cars of their own.

 

[Mehaha]

I think people are not happy that the current trend/method of distributing COEs may eventually favor the rich at the expense of the not-rich despite the latter working as hard as they could. If left UN-checked, the current way may end up say 95% of the cars in Spore are owned by only 5% of the population ( the really rich ). Which also could also means most of the road space, a public asset, will be used by only 5% of the population. The other 95% could just suck their thumbs.

 

The use of public assets/space etc should not be the privilege of only 5% of the population, no?

 

That's why there are public transport traveling on public roads carrying the rest of the 95% lor!