Best way to improve the COE system ?

[Maseratigood]

  On 6/30/2013 at 3:37 PM, Ingenius said:

same here. Although government collect a lot of money from Coe and taxes, we need to understand that other public sectors like defense, education, hospitals, infrastructure and civil service needs to be funded by these revenues.

Govt here is probably the only one in the world which has the "luxury" of such revenue sources ( thru collections of COE, ARF, ERP etc) to beef up the budget or, rather, "hide" their budget deficits.

 

Yes, we can say ultimately these collections benefit the nation's education/defense systems etc, but it also at the same time allows them not sharpening their budget planning efforts as they can always rely on these additional revenues (easy money)

[Maseratigood]

  On 6/30/2013 at 12:04 PM, Ingenius said:

i understand the desire of everyone to own a car, even if it is a luxury and not a need, but who doesnt want to enjoy good life for thheir loved ones ? perhaps can consider coming up with an enhanced opc system whereby coe is not needed, hence prices is very low, then people can fullfill their car ownership desire. however for this category, the car can only be driven on weekend and ph only, and all other time strictly cannot be driven. however, if this system is popular, then car park problem will worsen as these opc cars will occupy the lots most of the time. more car parks will need to be built, and in the long run, parking fees will surely increase.

As mentioned by a few readers here, there should be big improvements in our public transport system to provide a "pull factor" to attract commuters to switch from driving to using trains/buses.

 

So far, COE, ARF, ERP are just trying to stop commuters to own/use cars while the public transport system continue to fail in attracting more users due to overcrowding, lack of accessibility, breakdowns, etc.

[Wind30]

  On 6/30/2013 at 2:16 PM, Kiadaw said:

COE MUST stay in my opinion, because not many will give up driving for another person. The only way, is being FORCED to, either financially, or some enforced laws. None of which will make people happy. People will complain, why other have privilege over them.

 

My suggestion is to allow LTA to buy back COEs with 5 years or less at 80% of the prevailing COE rate.

 

This will solve the COE supply crunch and make everyone happy.

[Gazoll]

One of them is to categorise COEs according to a vehicle's emission level or its Open Market Value (its approximate cost price), instead of engine capacity.

 

 

 

"With changes in technology, using engine capacity as the criterion for COE categorisation may no longer be so valid," he said, without elaborating.

 

 

 

He also said the social equity aspect of Singapore's car policy is better addressed via other taxes, like the Additional Registration Fee (ARF).

 

 

 

It is an approach taken in Budget 2013, with the introduction of a tiered ARF system that imposes significantly heftier taxes on luxury cars.

 

 

 

These ideas were among several his ministry had received from MPs and the public on ways to improve the COE system.

 

 

 

Another is to introduce a "family car" COE category, a suggestion made yesterday by Mr Gan Thiam Poh (Pasir Ris-Punggol GRC) during the debate on the ministry's spending.

 

 

 

But such a needs-based system is likely to pose implementation challenges and create loopholes, Mr Lui said. "It would be extremely difficult for the Government to decide fairly who deserves and needs a car, and who does not."

 

 

 

Mr Gan had also asked if the commercial COE category could be split so that buyers of light and heavy vehicles do not compete with one another.

 

 

 

Mr Lui said his ministry would "study carefully" if buyers of the two types of vehicles "should pay the same COE premium".

 

 

 

Mr Cedric Foo (Pioneer), who chairs the Government Parliamentary Committee for Transport, called for more COEs to be allotted to smaller cars to mitigate the bidding pressure from premium cars, which are increasingly competing with budget cars for COEs.

 

 

 

This move, he argued, is necessary because when COE prices decline, it will offset the higher taxes premium cars incur in the tiered ARF regime.

 

 

 

Replying, Mr Lui said it would take time for a clearer picture to emerge on how the Monetary Authority of Singapore's car loan curbs and tiered ARF system affect buying behaviour and COE prices. It is best to let the dust settle first, he added, pointing out that there is "no shortage of suggestions" from various interest groups on how COEs should be distributed.

 

 

 

Mr Lui, however, seemed clear on one change he wants to effect: smoothening the cyclical COE supply pattern.

 

 

 

He has asked the Land Transport Authority "to see if there is a practical way of putting aside some of the supply from the peak that we expect in the next few years, for the future when COE supply becomes tighter".

 

 

 

He was referring to a foreseeable supply bonanza between next year and 2018, when cars bought during the supply boom a decade earlier approach 10 years of age and are likely to be scrapped.

 

 

 

It would be followed by a supply "drought" between 2019 and 2023, as the number of cars scrapped decides the number of COEs available in the following year.

 

 

 

This peak-and-trough pattern has given rise to wide fluctuations in COE prices over the years.

 

 

 

Repeated calls have been made from many quarters for the supply pattern to be flattened.

 

2013 MERCEDES BENZ SL-CLASS

[CH_CO]

The poor and stupid always claims for their own entitlement , the rich only wishes for equal rights and opportunity and they will make the best of it. Only the useless keeps whining about high cost as gone are their days of cheap cars .

 

Personally i do think the current system of COE is good though the ERP sucks , it doesn't improve traffic as the garmen offers no alternative routes and neither do they make changes to working hours to allow us to be given a choice to choose the times when we knock off and thus the massive jams during peak hours.

 

Assuming if you wanna use ERP then make sure it is minimal at the pain level something like 10~20 bucks per entry. This way the drivers will feel the pinch and stop using those roads. No 2~3 or 4 bucks. One shot 20 bucks and make sure it is painful , confirm no one uses the road lesser congestion.

[Staff69]

think will write in to LTA, minimum 80% down payment

 

then this will solve all problem

Edited July 2, 2013 by Staff69

[CH_CO]

80 might as well full cash

[Staff69]

Must let banks earn peanuts

 

Anyway, no need creative ideas to let people get their hands on car.

 

Super high down payment...let the people can afford drive

[Kiwi]

  On 7/2/2013 at 3:43 PM, Staff69 said:

think will write in to LTA, minimum 80% down payment

 

then this will solve all problem

 

Solve what problems? Solve whose problems?

Those who cannot afford a car today certainly cannot afford one as well with your silly suggestion. Problem solved for them?

Existing car owners will hold their cars for as long as possible since buying a new one is too unaffordable, with limited new COE available there will less new owners. Problem solved for them?

[Kiwi]

Car owners will want less less cars on the road -> suggestion will be along the lines of making it more difficult for new buyers to enter the market -> higher downpayment blah blah blah

Car buyers will want to it easier to own their first/new car -> suggestion will be along the lines of cheaper prices, more quota blah blah blah

In the end nobody's problem is solved:

1. Road congestion (owner's problem mostly)

2. High car prices (buyer's problem mostly)

Edited July 3, 2013 by Kiwi

[Gildor8]

  On 6/16/2013 at 10:10 AM, Meanmachine said:

A discussion based on discussion on how best to improve COE bidding system ?

 

- One family one car ?

 

-Cap on car loan to value -50-50%

 

-Impose levies on 2nd/3rd car justifiable ?

 

- Judge on car horse-power ?

 

make do without one?. :)

 

by joke aside, COE system is fundamentally a method of allocating limited cars to be used on the road.

 

If it is free, the number of ppl buying will be so huge that the road will be so congested, no cars can move, I tell you.

 

But then what is the best method to allocate cars?. whether the above suggestions are good or not , it boils down to who you think should be allocated a car. Only for the rich?. if not, how can the poor ones be able to own one?. Charge diff for rich and poor?.

[Mightymito]

  On 7/1/2013 at 12:08 AM, Kar_lover said:

So in my office when my lazy and incompetent Singaporean staff under-performs I should still give him nice bonus and increment. My hardworking and more competent foreigner staff I will just suppress. Afterall "Singaporean land" right?

This may in some ways be coming true. In construction when you try to recruit staff, the locals want high pay. Cannot work late. Cannot work Saturday. Project must be near home.

 

At the same time foreign staff increasingly restricted. The existing foreign staff may not get pass renewed.

 

 

[Mightymito]

-double post-

Edited July 3, 2013 by Mightymito

[Maseratigood]

  On 7/3/2013 at 3:17 AM, Mightymito said:

This may in some ways be coming true. In construction when you try to recruit staff, the locals want high pay. Cannot work late. Cannot work Saturday. Project must be near home.

 

At the same time foreign staff increasingly restricted. The existing foreign staff may not get pass renewed.

Maybe local contractors should check how their counterparts in countries like australia work? in Oz land, the construction industry hardly uses any cheap foreign workers, the local workers work normal working hours, have good work life balance, enjoy decent incomes by the local standard, produce good workmanship, etc..... and at the end of the day, the construction cost in terms of dollars per sqm isnt really much higher than that in spore, according to people i spoke to. btw, the Oz tradesmen take pride in their work and are well respected.

[Maseratigood]

  On 7/2/2013 at 3:15 PM, CH_CO said:

The poor and stupid always claims for their own entitlement , the rich only wishes for equal rights and opportunity and they will make the best of it. Only the useless keeps whining about high cost as gone are their days of cheap cars .

 

Personally i do think the current system of COE is good though the ERP sucks , it doesn't improve traffic as the garmen offers no alternative routes and neither do they make changes to working hours to allow us to be given a choice to choose the times when we knock off and thus the massive jams during peak hours.

 

Assuming if you wanna use ERP then make sure it is minimal at the pain level something like 10~20 bucks per entry. This way the drivers will feel the pinch and stop using those roads. No 2~3 or 4 bucks. One shot 20 bucks and make sure it is painful , confirm no one uses the road lesser congestion.

without resorting calling people "poor", "stupid", "useless", etc, why not try out cutting down the need to commute from A to B by making use of online shopping, video conferencing, flexible/staggered working hours, work from home, decentralising business centres, etc etc... above all these steps, seriously improve public transport systems to really world class standard??

[Maseratigood]

  On 7/2/2013 at 10:16 AM, Wind30 said:

My suggestion is to allow LTA to buy back COEs with 5 years or less at 80% of the prevailing COE rate.

 

This will solve the COE supply crunch and make everyone happy.

Come to think of it, if its true spore need at least 7m or more people on this tiny island to survive, one day the idea of banning all private cars, everyone travels by super efficient trains/buses may be more viable.... whats wrong with senior management or elites taking buses/trains if the service is good and reasonably comfortable? Improve the public transport system to a level where the travel time becomes not much longer than having stuck in private cars on congested roads.. As it is now, trains may be as fast from A to B during peak hours

[Ungtiong]

Singapore can champion the environment cause by being the 1st country in the whole world to have only electric or hybrid cars in the country. They can sell the car with NO COE and double the current COE for current all petrol & diesel cars. They can also buy at bulk so their citizen can own one at really low price. They will ban all petrol cars in Singapore.

 

BUT problem is not transportation (taking taxi is the most convenient here) but 'face'. We want to drive nice car, branded, sports, or simply to show the world we are a owner of a damn expensive car. Sad but true, car owners in general have a certain 'i am better' attitude than non car owners...even if it take you longer to reach your destination.

 

So whatever rules you come out with to solve the jam issue, prioritizing based on need, improving public transport...it will fail cause it will never address the issue of "FACE".

 

Young men will want to drive the latest sports cars. Young women will want to drive the latest sports car (there is no real man's car these days, except maybe the GTR and Lambo. Every other sports car have a lot of female drivers. Sirocco is the poor man/womans's TT, Evo, Type R all gender neutral. Even WRX got a lot of Ah Lians driving it.

 

Old man and woman now wants BMW and Merc..its a rewards after long struggle and they finally make it in life. Even kids these days want cars, already driving family car even before they start working. It common to see a bunch of young kids driving in a 7 series BMW (obviously dad or mom's car cause its always packed to the max)

Edited July 3, 2013 by Ungtiong

[Kiadaw]

  On 7/3/2013 at 10:04 AM, Maseratigood said:

Maybe local contractors should check how their counterparts in countries like australia work? in Oz land, the construction industry hardly uses any cheap foreign workers, the local workers work normal working hours, have good work life balance, enjoy decent incomes by the local standard, produce good workmanship, etc..... and at the end of the day, the construction cost in terms of dollars per sqm isnt really much higher than that in spore, according to people i spoke to. btw, the Oz tradesmen take pride in their work and are well respected.

There goes the differences.

 

local context

1) Locals do not want to work under the sun.

 

2) Its consider 'low class' in Singapore.

 

3) Companies prefer cheap labors than more expensive but skill workers, & lack motivative ti improve efficieny.

 

4) Lack of skill Singaporean workers. Schools (ITE) do not teach these skills, along with electrians, mechanics anymore, or so I heard. How often you see younger car mechanics taht are Singaporeans?

In some other countries, you need proper qualifcation to be a profession, & as unimaginable as it sound in Sunny Singapore, Carpenter, mechanics etc are classified as professional workers, & need proper approved cert & training before one can work as one.

 

You cannot anyhow put titles and call yourself engineer or something else. I should know, my uncle used to work for Toyota, & while he barely finish high school, this name card says 'sales engineer'.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Kiadaw