True Story of a ex SAF regular

[Taipan49]

I'm an architect and I practised for 5 years in australia b4 coming back here. Over there, the construction workers are all well trained and got 'tak cheh' one. They work fast and very efficiently, and waste very little materials. So your material cost (which is always higher than your labour cost will ever be) already save liao. Here leh, the banglas and ah tiongs dun even know which end of the fking hammer to hold. So they fk up a lot, waste a lot of materials, and always tio delay bcos of some c0ckup. End up you spend more bcos of all the delays and material waste. I find sg construction firms are damn bloody shortsighted and tan lui, but they dun even realise that they are spending more money with cheap labour than they would with well trained labour.

 

Agree with you. I have no understanding why condo's here take so long to build as an example. It should be an embarrassment to the developers to sell anything that takes 4 or more years to build. Example is Eco in Bedok near where I live. Went on sale last year, but will be completed in 2017!

[Wyfitms]

sar lar boh ... $7000 a month ...

 

more experienced operators lar.. means $7,000 when you are 50 yrs old!

[Hydrocarbon]

whose parents would want their kids to ride bike nowadays? let alone be delivery biker

 

stop ordering delivery meal then.

 

Aiyah, just saying that the jobs usually held by Poly / ITE students also taken up by PRCs already. Besides, not every day order, just a recent experience to share mah..

 

Lots of Malaysian not working in Singapore due to cost of living very high here.. and Malaysia has lots of jobs now. So if net of living expenses, they are earning just slightly lesser yet they can be close to family. Not companies don't wanna pay Malaysian.. in fact in SG, Malaysian and Singaporean and PR has similar employment opportunities.

 

If work in Singapore, but stay in Malaysia (JB area), still can save a lot. Some will packet food from home, so they don't spend much, or anything at all in Singapore. Bt pay = 2.39 times, or whatever the exchange rate is.. So, still a good deal for some Malaysians.

[Icebrush79]

I'm N level and earning > $5k at 33 age. It is all about working hard with good attitude. Certificate is just a piece of paper, experience is in the real world.

 

That's where you're wrong. How many N level holders are as "successful" (in comparative relative terms) as you are now? Probability still shows that majority of the N level (only) holders are the underdogs of society.

 

Its true, certificates are just pieces of paper, unfortunately in a resource scarce nation like SIN, talent is one of our key asset and how better to measure talent? your good old paper of course. (yeah, it is a narrow minded measure, sadly though, it is still the common practice).

 

Before you get to garner experience and earn your credibility in the real world as you mentioned, you need to have the opportunity. Else spending decades chalking real world experience in a lowly job gets no real value experience which open doors for promotion.

 

Moral of the story, it is better to be educated than uneducated in SIN at least.

 

Working hard with a good attitude without a fair opportunity seldom take you anywhere, you may be an exception, perhaps only the 30% or less N-level folks that saw success in life

[Carnoob]

For education, I say true and false.

 

True - If you want to pursue a "career" in government sectors / GLC etc, prepare to get papers than experience

 

False - In private sectors, IQ = EQ, both are equally important. EQ sometimes learn thru experiences

 

So for the story teller, I say he should have consider upgrade when he is in gov sectors. It is a golden rice bowl when u have "papers", just look at all the "scholars" even convicted with fines can still earn millions - Mr Thar*an

 

For a commoner, a fine means the end for him. So conclusion, stay smart choose wisely

[Bobby_tan]

I'm an architect and I practised for 5 years in australia b4 coming back here. Over there, the construction workers are all well trained and got 'tak cheh' one. They work fast and very efficiently, and waste very little materials. So your material cost (which is always higher than your labour cost will ever be) already save liao. Here leh, the banglas and ah tiongs dun even know which end of the fking hammer to hold. So they fk up a lot, waste a lot of materials, and always tio delay bcos of some c0ckup. End up you spend more bcos of all the delays and material waste. I find sg construction firms are damn bloody shortsighted and tan lui, but they dun even realise that they are spending more money with cheap labour than they would with well trained labour.

 

As a fellow architect I fully agree with you. Once when I was inspecting a project site (it was a school A&A), I actually saw one ah tiong construction worker who didn't even know how to operate an electric drill! I called up the contractor tao eh and fark him good good. And the project keep delaying, and the material cost exceeded the projected by a LOT. I dunno why SG construction industry is so short sighted like you mentioned. Train a few very well trained workers and your cost sure go down one.

[Albeniz]

That's where you're wrong. How many N level holders are as "successful" (in comparative relative terms) as you are now? Probability still shows that majority of the N level (only) holders are the underdogs of society.

 

Its true, certificates are just pieces of paper, unfortunately in a resource scarce nation like SIN, talent is one of our key asset and how better to measure talent? your good old paper of course. (yeah, it is a narrow minded measure, sadly though, it is still the common practice).

 

Before you get to garner experience and earn your credibility in the real world as you mentioned, you need to have the opportunity. Else spending decades chalking real world experience in a lowly job gets no real value experience which open doors for promotion.

 

Moral of the story, it is better to be educated than uneducated in SIN at least.

 

Working hard with a good attitude without a fair opportunity seldom take you anywhere, you may be an exception, perhaps only the 30% or less N-level folks that saw success in life

 

Sustainability should also be considered, especially one when one turns 40.

If for some reasons, the person is retrenched, would he be able to get another job which pays him equally well as his last job, if he doesn

[Albeniz]

deleted. double post.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Albeniz

[Proton]

can la..be own boss who care fark abt paper?

[Tigershark1976]

good for you, i hope u still earned the same when u changed company next time.

 

and i dun know what job u are doing now.

 

if u are in IT like I do, N/O level wun get you far.

 

 

In IT industry, you dont even see N/O level.... [laugh]

[Turret]

I heard someone mentioned that one minister has recently downplayed the importance of having paper qualifications.

 

I think that is a short-sighted view.

 

On one hand, it may hold true for certain professional or occupation may not necessarily require the high paper qualifications like being a chef where culinary skills count more than a paper qualifications. Others like artists, actress etc... There are far and few such occupations.

 

However, this is not applicable to all. One always has to remember that through decades, Singapore has opened its doors of opportunities to many so called foreign talents. Singaporeans are competing directly with these degree holders FT. There used to be a saying that as long as any foreigner who has acquired simi degree, he is welcome with open hands to Singapore to work. As a result of this mis-policy, we have many foreigners with degree holders here working.

 

So it seems that we are digging our own graveyard if these groups of people heed the advice of not acquiring more knowledge and paper qualifications. Eventually, Singaporeans will lose out to those so-called foreign talents.

 

In reality, having a degree no longer guarantee you success but it only offer you an opportunity to move higher.

 

There are many high-valued jobs which requires a basic degree to show that the applicant has achieved a certain level of expertise an area.

 

[Albeniz]

agree.

[Chucky2007]

As a fellow architect I fully agree with you. Once when I was inspecting a project site (it was a school A&A), I actually saw one ah tiong construction worker who didn't even know how to operate an electric drill! I called up the contractor tao eh and fark him good good. And the project keep delaying, and the material cost exceeded the projected by a LOT. I dunno why SG construction industry is so short sighted like you mentioned. Train a few very well trained workers and your cost sure go down one.

Wah.. Don't know how to operate a hand drill very 严重 leh... The worker used to be a farmer?

 

[Atonchia]

In retrospective does anyone around u success or make more money then u with only 'N or 'O'? Insurance agents, Property agents, crane / fork lift operators excluded

Think insurance or property agent need at least minimum 3 O levels to be allowed to take professional exams

[Atonchia]

Hmmm.. i had staffs with N level in their mid 30s drawing 4k after cpf managing fmcg key acc retailers

 

Myself coming late 30s sales and marketing manager didnt receive much education also but i work hard in the same industry since i completed national service, drawing 5 digits managing fmcg key acc retailers regional, malaysia indonesia s'pore

 

I can confirm that even with only N or O level local big retailers are willing to pay u up to 5 digits if u had the experience and attitude

 

I can also confirm that some of this big retailers senior managers and even country director had only O or N but they does have many degree or even mba working under them

 

I had no idea what industry u are in, but it does sound very pathetic that it's paper driven

 

Dont have anything more then N or O level doesnt mean cant earn more money, bottomline - after getting a job what employer want is positive attitude, willing to learn and able to handle stress

 

 

Yours is because of work experience.

But do you start from managerial role or do you start from a sales Merchandiser or sales rep position 1st?

Have to let people know what were the progression and the years took for you to attain a managerial role without any paper qualifications. If not people may misunderstand it is actually quite easy to be a manager in FMCG industry.

Nowadays I see many in FMCG managerial roles are also armed with Degree.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Atonchia

[Dfx16]

Never ending debate, again i must quote my words from earlier post in case someone else filter away without even reading it

 

"Dont have anything more then N or O level doesnt mean cant earn more money, bottomline - after getting a job what employer want is positive attitude, willing to learn and able to handle stress"

 

"Subjected to the nature of business also"

 

To Atonchia, yes mine is accumulated through work experience + positive attitude, willing to learn and able to handle stress

There's also many with prestige degree dont do any better then me because they are negative, not willing to take up challenges, unable to handle stress and looking forward to go home whenever they trade visits

Edited June 17, 2013 by Dfx16

[Atonchia]

Had u seen any fresh grad started off as a managerial role by the way?

Or all of them started off as an executive and gradually progress to a manager

 

Nowadays u seen many in FMCG managerial roles are also armed with Degree

Yes no doubt, is everyone success?

 

I myself also have a S'pore Poly Marketing Dip Grad age 28 working as a key acc sales executive aka sales rep in laymen term

 

With a above avg prestige local paper as compared to distance study dip, why at the age of 28 he's still only a sales rep

 

I started off as a sales rep btw

 

Again i must quote my words from earlier post in case someone else filter away

Without paper doesnt mean cant earn decent salary, it all boil down to attitude, how resourceful individual is and it's subjected to the nature of business

 

What about yourself care to share how are u doing in FMCG now with good paper?

 

As what I have mentioned in all my previous post I also strongly believe in having a correct attitude is more important than having paper qualification with a bad attitude.

 

Haha do I seem to be agitated? I apologise if I seem so. I merely stating that it will be good to provide a time frame on the progress to allow the TS to share and also to share with fellow forum users. To see how one can progress even without qualification. So one will have to have the right expectation on the career progression.

 

Because it may cause someone who could have misunderstand that it may only need a few years to become a manager in FMCG industry.

 

I have known someone with o level, start off as merchandiser, work in the same company for almost 16 yrs and rose through the rank from merchandiser, to sales rep, sales executive, asst sales mgr and eventually sales manager.

 

I have also seen another started off as the same as merchandiser but feel happy to progress to a sales rep. Also about 15 yrs in the industry.

 

Another I have seen was a sales rep, study part time degree, then change to another MNC FMCG company to be a key acct exec and later assume managerial position all within 4yrs. Maybe it's considered lucky for that guy. But holding a relevant qualification will be able to fast track the career progression, 2yrs sales rep, then 2 yrs exec, then Managerial position, of course that person also has the right attitude.

 

I have the utmost respect for those whose rose thru the ranks, even w/o paper qualifications. But we have to clearly say that it's because of the right attitude and with an always continue learning and never stop progressing habit to earn the keep.

 

Edited June 17, 2013 by Atonchia

[Dfx16]

Dont mind i ask, u principal, distributor or retailer?