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ABS Explained.


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  On 3/18/2013 at 4:52 AM, Porker said:

Is saying you're idealistic a personal attack?

 

You're talking about brake fade and that engineers should design for it by having robustness in the design. I'm just answering your question point by point.

 

Tell me if a Picanto or Getz have robustness in design for mountainous driving?

 

You are the one with no clue what you're talking about.

 

Always having a verbal diarrhoea of theories and abstract terms just to confuse others and make you seem like you're an authority on everything you say.

 

What reasoning do you have? Answer my question if Picanto and Getz have been designed without brake fade when barrelling down a mountain.

 

You started the personal attack by saying I have an impressive track record for personal attacks.

 

Stop replying to me if you can't answer to the point. I have no time for stupidity such as you.

 

Oh yeah! the personal attack. this is what i am talking about.

 

LOL.gif

 

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Turbocharged
  On 3/18/2013 at 5:07 AM, Happily1986 said:

Oh yeah! the personal attack. this is what i am talking about.

 

Nice one. Why don't you try answering my question instead of resorting to such childish antics?

 

I have a summary for a character such as you:

 

1) Likes to pretend you're an authority on many topics under the sun

 

2) Spews out theory after theory when you have actually no clue what you're talking about. And no conclusion either

 

3) Gets agitated when people asks simple questions that you can't answer

 

4) Yes you are stupid and a waste of time

 

This is my last response to you. See if you can even answer my question to the Picanto and Getz.

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  On 3/18/2013 at 3:34 AM, Happily1986 said:

one must/should include some safety margin in design when it comes to systems. What drivers dont usually do to the system, the engineer should include some safety latitude for some robustness because s--t can and will happen.

 

not that i think you will bother reply but even anyone with a modicum of comprehension skill is able to see that my earlier post as i have quoted above again, is talking about systems in general. granted that we are talking about brakes but surely ANY systems involving user interaction (carrying an inherent risk) WILL have a safety margin. This is something i cannot stress enough.

 

And i am not putting myself out to be an authority on everything and desiring to have the last say on anything.

 

it is plainly apparent that you are touching on a subject (safety engineering) which clearly do not fall within your domain of expertise and it is your bigotry that got me riled up in the first place.

 

Wall of Text, diarrhoea to you, i hear you say? Suits you. I type so much because thats my way of according you some respect as a properly worded reply rather than giving some half past six reply that skews way past the crux of the argument. You find reading my post a waste of time, suits you.

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  On 3/18/2013 at 5:10 AM, Porker said:

Nice one. Why don't you try answering my question instead of resorting to such childish antics?

 

I have a summary for a character such as you:

 

1) Likes to pretend you're an authority on many topics under the sun

 

2) Spews out theory after theory when you have actually no clue what you're talking about. And no conclusion either

 

3) Gets agitated when people asks simple questions that you can't answer

 

4) Yes you are stupid and a waste of time

This is my last response to you. See if you can even answer my question to the Picanto and Getz.

 

Thanks for your candour. Much appreciated.

 

I believe that the automotive engineers and even the Chief Engineer in charge of the Picanto/Getz certainly did include some safety margins as a street car. This safety margin manifest itself all over the design of the car (any car for that matter).

 

For example, the tensile strength of the chassis of the car. I am sure it well exceeds the tensile strength required to preserve mechanical integrity when the chassis is flexing when subjected to yawing, rotation and pitch.

 

I am sure if you examine the fuel, ignition, electrical system(s) on their own, there will be many instances where you can see system safety margin or even redundancy.

 

Even the idea of actually have 5~10 litres of petrol in the tank when your fuel gauge flashed E is a simple and yet overlooked aspect of safety margin.

 

  Quote
Tell me if a Picanto or Getz have robustness in design for mountainous driving?

 

In any case, you asked me to prove or state my case whether the Getz or Picanto has safety margins for mountainous driving. Firstly, i do not think that the Chief Engineer envision let alone mooted both platforms as mountain going platforms like a Land Rover is. Like i mentioned in Post #58, i was already talking about systems in general and their safety margin for my Post #51.

 

I do not know how you come to have the impression that i felt that the Picanto/Getz have safety margins to as a mountain going platform. Please feel free to pick out and dissect any post(s) that suggest so.

 

P.S. you have consistently demonstrated a propensity to look down on people presumably on your assessment of the other party's intelligence. i have no idea how smart you are but i certainly see that you have a serious character problem on your end.

 

 

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c--k Wars Summary

 

Background: Happily states that brake fade might be a factor that NZY's stopping distance has lengthened and brake fade is a factor that should be considered in everyday driving.

 

Porker: States that brake fade is a issue for track days and not so for everyday driving in Singapore.

 

Happily: Concedes that BF is not a big factor in SGP driving but in Malaysia and mountaineous terrain (Sligtly OT)

 

Porker: States that downhill driving must utilise engine brake or else brake may fade

 

Happily: States design factors and redundancy in manufacturing (OT liao)

 

The rest are just super OT.

 

Can we get back on the original question of "Will brake fade affect stopping distance with/ without ABS in our daily driving in SIngapore?"

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Turbocharged
  On 3/18/2013 at 5:56 AM, Bavarian said:

Can we get back on the original question of "Will brake fade affect stopping distance with/ without ABS in our daily driving in SIngapore?"

 

I ask Cecilia Sue to give you a blow by blow account :D :D :D

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Why argue so much, just google lah.

 

Here only on Gavel, rough ice and snowy surface then will not decrease brake distant. but on smooth surface (yes even on ice) will reduce brake distant.

http://www.smedayton.org/downloads/Reid%20...BS%20Brakes.pdf

 

Here same reply.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_anti-lock_bra...raking_distance

 

also on wikipedia

  Quote
On high-traction surfaces such as bitumen, or concrete, many (though not all) ABS-equipped cars are able to attain braking distances better (i.e. shorter) than those that would be easily possible without the benefit of ABS. In real world conditions even an alert, experienced driver without ABS would find it difficult, even through the use of techniques like threshold braking, to match or improve on the performance of a typical driver with a modern ABS-equipped vehicle. ABS reduces chances of crashing, and/or the severity of impact. The recommended technique for non-expert drivers in an ABS-equipped car, in a typical full-braking emergency, is to press the brake pedal as firmly as possible and, where appropriate, to steer around obstructions. In such situations, ABS will significantly reduce the chances of a skid and subsequent loss of control.

 

In gravel, sand and deep snow, ABS tends to increase braking distances. On these surfaces, locked wheels dig in and stop the vehicle more quickly. ABS prevents this from occurring. Some ABS calibrations reduce this problem by slowing the cycling time, thus letting the wheels repeatedly briefly lock and unlock. Some vehicle manufacturers provide an "off-road" button to turn ABS function off. The primary benefit of ABS on such surfaces is to increase the ability of the driver to maintain control of the car rather than go into a skid, though loss of control remains more likely on soft surfaces such as gravel or on slippery surfaces such as snow or ice. On a very slippery surface such as sheet ice or gravel, it is possible to lock multiple wheels at once, and this can defeat ABS (which relies on comparing all four wheels, and detecting individual wheels skidding). Availability of ABS relieves most drivers from learning threshold braking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system

Edited by Joseph22
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Turbocharged
  On 3/18/2013 at 8:15 AM, Joseph22 said:

Why argue so much, just google lah.

 

Here only on Gavel, round ice and snowy surface then will not decrease brake distant. but on smooth surface (yes even on ice) will reduce brake distant.

http://www.smedayton.org/downloads/Reid%20...BS%20Brakes.pdf

 

Here same reply.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_anti-lock_bra...raking_distance

 

also on wikipedia

On high-traction surfaces such as bitumen, or concrete, many (though not all) ABS-equipped cars are able to attain braking distances better (i.e. shorter) than those that would be easily possible without the benefit of ABS. In real world conditions even an alert, experienced driver without ABS would find it difficult, even through the use of techniques like threshold braking, to match or improve on the performance of a typical driver with a modern ABS-equipped vehicle. ABS reduces chances of crashing, and/or the severity of impact. The recommended technique for non-expert drivers in an ABS-equipped car, in a typical full-braking emergency, is to press the brake pedal as firmly as possible and, where appropriate, to steer around obstructions. In such situations, ABS will significantly reduce the chances of a skid and subsequent loss of control.

 

In gravel, sand and deep snow, ABS tends to increase braking distances. On these surfaces, locked wheels dig in and stop the vehicle more quickly. ABS prevents this from occurring. Some ABS calibrations reduce this problem by slowing the cycling time, thus letting the wheels repeatedly briefly lock and unlock. Some vehicle manufacturers provide an "off-road" button to turn ABS function off. The primary benefit of ABS on such surfaces is to increase the ability of the driver to maintain control of the car rather than go into a skid, though loss of control remains more likely on soft surfaces such as gravel or on slippery surfaces such as snow or ice. On a very slippery surface such as sheet ice or gravel, it is possible to lock multiple wheels at once, and this can defeat ABS (which relies on comparing all four wheels, and detecting individual wheels skidding). Availability of ABS relieves most drivers from learning threshold braking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system

 

 

Huat... I posted that already lah. Why you always the one to do such things? :D :D :D

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  On 3/18/2013 at 8:17 AM, Porker said:

Huat... I posted that already lah. Why you always the one to do such things? :D :D :D

 

you didnt post link mah.

 

I post link somemore by professional agency. you post all those, still got people insist on singapore road his brake distance increase wor. [laugh]

 

btw, got spelling error. should be rough ice, not round ice.

Edited by Joseph22
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Twincharged
  On 3/18/2013 at 8:21 AM, Joseph22 said:

you didnt post link mah.

 

I post link somemore by professional agency. you post all those, still got people insist on singapore road his brake distance increase wor. [laugh]

 

btw, got spelling error. should be rough ice, not round ice.

 

Well. I also tested it and the results also show without ABS shorter distance. Maybe they test in a different way?

 

Many ways to test and all got different results. Try looking for other links. Some others also tested and without ABS have shorter stopping distance.

Edited by Nzy
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  On 3/18/2013 at 8:41 AM, Nzy said:

Well. I also tested it and the results also show without ABS shorter distance. Maybe they test in a different way?

 

Many ways to test and all got different results. Try looking for other links. Some others also tested and without ABS have shorter stopping distance.

Are those professional agency too? (how to make this sound sincer and not sarcastic??)

 

i did look through a few other website. but most didnt mention the braking distant only on how its work.

 

also, why dont you find the other link since you say got other.

 

those i find say shorter.

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  On 3/18/2013 at 8:41 AM, Nzy said:

Well. I also tested it and the results also show without ABS shorter distance. Maybe they test in a different way?

 

Many ways to test and all got different results. Try looking for other links. Some others also tested and without ABS have shorter stopping distance.

 

I won't be too sure about your 'tests' as there are too many variables. :mellow:

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  On 3/18/2013 at 8:21 AM, Joseph22 said:

you didnt post link mah.

 

I post link somemore by professional agency. you post all those, still got people insist on singapore road his brake distance increase wor. [laugh]

 

btw, got spelling error. should be rough ice, not round ice.

 

I studied their debate in details and all I can say is that their evaluation of each others character are spot on. :D :D

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  On 3/18/2013 at 8:49 AM, Bavarian said:

I won't be too sure about your 'tests' as there are too many variables. :mellow:

actually you are very kind.

 

you are not too sure about his test.

 

i wont even trust his test, since its not done by professional agency.

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  On 3/18/2013 at 8:41 AM, Nzy said:

Well. I also tested it and the results also show without ABS shorter distance. Maybe they test in a different way?

 

Many ways to test and all got different results. Try looking for other links. Some others also tested and without ABS have shorter stopping distance.

 

Yours is wat we call ka cheng feel

Butt feel

Hahaha

 

Not pro one lar

Like the other guy say

Too much variant Liao

 

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