ABS Explained.

[Zippaboy]

  On 3/15/2013 at 2:23 PM, Nzy said:

For certain cars I think its true that ABS off have shorter braking distance. Tested out with my car and when ABS off I get shorter braking distance.

 

that just means your "manual ABS" is better than your car's ABS.

When you brake intermittently (brake, release abit pressure, brake again etc), you are actually mimicking the car's ABS.

 

in short, check your car ABS or upgrade to another car.

why?

 

 

the calculation done by the computer is in microseconds, which most humans cannot achieve. Unless you are a racing or very very good driver.

 

Do your manual ABS 100 times vs the car's ABS 100 times.

Can you ensure there is no slip up on your side? But the computer can make sure that it is the same every single time.

 

Go take a ABS and non ABS car. SLAM the brakes and hold it there on a wet slippery road. (like our famous HDB MSCP)

 

 

 

[Zippaboy]

  On 3/16/2013 at 1:08 AM, Chucky2007 said:

Confirm ABS increase breaking distance because personally experienced it.

 

ABS is most irritating when the roads are dry, and your car most likely will not need the abs, but braking distance increased.. And u will see your car, tok, tok, tok, tok but just wouldn't stop completely, and tok tok some more until kiss the front car backside.

 

Of course ABS will be appreciated during wet weather.

 

what car and what tyres are you on?

 

i drove so many cars before, if the roads are dry, the ABS will not kick in.

 

hmm only kick in once when i did an ebrake from 250km/hr on NSHW.

[Nzy]

  On 3/16/2013 at 12:30 PM, Zippaboy said:

that just means your "manual ABS" is better than your car's ABS.

When you brake intermittently (brake, release abit pressure, brake again etc), you are actually mimicking the car's ABS.

 

in short, check your car ABS or upgrade to another car.

why?

 

 

the calculation done by the computer is in microseconds, which most humans cannot achieve. Unless you are a racing or very very good driver.

 

Do your manual ABS 100 times vs the car's ABS 100 times.

Can you ensure there is no slip up on your side? But the computer can make sure that it is the same every single time.

 

Go take a ABS and non ABS car. SLAM the brakes and hold it there on a wet slippery road. (like our famous HDB MSCP)

 

I did not brake intermittently. I just braked till the point just before the rear wheels locked up. Test a few times and everytime no ABS got shorter stopping distance. Only time ABS is useful when I tested in snow. Cannot find the right point just before the wheels lock up.

 

Had to relearn how to do ebrake after I got my car without ABS. Cannot just slam on the brakes when in an emergency. First few times I had to ebrake in a real situation I panicked and slam too hard and the tires skidded. After that I got used to it and learnt how to squeeze the brakes rather than just slam down on it. Stopped much faster without skidding. You can sort of feel it through the brake pedal. It just feels different when the rear wheels are going to start sliding.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Nzy

[Nzy]

  On 3/16/2013 at 12:33 PM, Zippaboy said:

what car and what tyres are you on?

 

i drove so many cars before, if the roads are dry, the ABS will not kick in.

 

hmm only kick in once when i did an ebrake from 250km/hr on NSHW.

 

I thought ABS kicks in quite easily? In driving school everytime I do ebrake also can feel the ABS already. I used the Honda City and Honda Civic for my lessons. Both cars ABS kicks in and all the time my speed was 50km/h or lower.

[Kiadaw]

  On 3/16/2013 at 1:48 PM, Nzy said:

I thought ABS kicks in quite easily? In driving school everytime I do ebrake also can feel the ABS already. I used the Honda City and Honda Civic for my lessons. Both cars ABS kicks in and all the time my speed was 50km/h or lower.

You already said the keyword, ebrake.

[Happily1986]

  On 3/16/2013 at 1:45 PM, Nzy said:

I did not brake intermittently. I just braked till the point just before the rear wheels locked up. Test a few times and everytime no ABS got shorter stopping distance. Only time ABS is useful when I tested in snow. Cannot find the right point just before the wheels lock up.

 

Had to relearn how to do ebrake after I got my car without ABS. Cannot just slam on the brakes when in an emergency. First few times I had to ebrake in a real situation I panicked and slam too hard and the tires skidded. After that I got used to it and learnt how to squeeze the brakes rather than just slam down on it. Stopped much faster without skidding. You can sort of feel it through the brake pedal. It just feels different when the rear wheels are going to start sliding.

 

since we are talking about ebraking and dwelling somewhat on the subject of hard braking, I think it is relevant to talk about brake fade.

 

you realise that regardless of whether you are successful in preventing brake lockup, your continuous braking makes you more prone to brake fade compared to intermittent braking.

 

most entry level cars may or may not have ventilated discs. cross drilled discs are certainly out of the question.

[Nzy]

  On 3/17/2013 at 10:52 AM, Happily1986 said:

since we are talking about ebraking and dwelling somewhat on the subject of hard braking, I think it is relevant to talk about brake fade.

 

you realise that regardless of whether you are successful in preventing brake lockup, your continuous braking makes you more prone to brake fade compared to intermittent braking.

 

most entry level cars may or may not have ventilated discs. cross drilled discs are certainly out of the question.

 

I am talking about normal day to day driving in Singapore. I doubt you do an ebrake you will get brake fade. Ebrake is like once in a blue moon only...

 

I don't know if my test is scientific or not. But it does seem like both ABS or no ABS do experience brake fade anyway. After about 10 ebrakes on both cars with about 30-40s rest inbetween, both the ABS and non-ABS cars' stopping distance were significantly longer than the first test already.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Nzy

[Nzy]

  On 3/17/2013 at 9:44 AM, Kiadaw said:

You already said the keyword, ebrake.

 

I guessed he was talking about ebrake cuz most should know that ABS on a road worthy car shouldn't kick in under normal braking on dry roads.

[Happily1986]

  On 3/17/2013 at 3:28 PM, Nzy said:

I am talking about normal day to day driving in Singapore. I doubt you do an ebrake you will get brake fade. Ebrake is like once in a blue moon only...

 

I don't know if my test is scientific or not. But it does seem like both ABS or no ABS do experience brake fade anyway. After about 10 ebrakes on both cars with about 30-40s rest inbetween, both the ABS and non-ABS cars' stopping distance were significantly longer than the first test already.

 

i wonder how you perform your ebrake test since your words in bold seem to suggest that brake fade is absolutely not a concern in everyday driving.

[Porker]

Brakes do not fade under everyday driving unless that c o c k driver employs hard braking every few hundred metres thereby setting up a situation where adequate cooling is impossible.

 

Brake fade is a common occurrence for track driving if and only if the brakes are not up to par for track driving and there's insufficient ventilation.

 

Anyway, drivers who need to employ e brake daily or frequently ought to be shot because they obviously do not follow safe distance and are really poor in judging distance. Or quite simply they just love to ram into people's a s s :D

[Nzy]

  On 3/17/2013 at 5:53 PM, Happily1986 said:

i wonder how you perform your ebrake test since your words in bold seem to suggest that brake fade is absolutely not a concern in everyday driving.

 

We just put a mark on the floor where we start braking from 60km/h. Then we just marked the stopping distance. And compared the results lo. There was about 30-40s rest in between for the brakes cuz we had to u-turn and accelerate to 60km/h again before another e-brake.

 

I feel its not a concern in everyday driving especially in Singapore cuz who would be doing an ebrake so often? Plus we do not have many long steep slopes to descend. If you have to do hard braking so often that you manage to experience brake fade in day to day driving I guess you need to learn how to drive smoothly and look further ahead.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Nzy

[Happily1986]

  On 3/17/2013 at 6:11 PM, Porker said:

Brakes do not fade under everyday driving unless that c o c k driver employs hard braking every few hundred metres thereby setting up a situation where adequate cooling is impossible.

 

Brake fade is a common occurrence for track driving if and only if the brakes are not up to par for track driving and there's insufficient ventilation.

 

Anyway, drivers who need to employ e brake daily or frequently ought to be shot because they obviously do not follow safe distance and are really poor in judging distance. Or quite simply they just love to ram into people's a s s :D

 

fair enough. in our local context, it is not really that big of a deal. maybe if you head up north and need to do a lot of mountainous driving?

[Nzy]

  On 3/18/2013 at 2:41 AM, Happily1986 said:

fair enough. in our local context, it is not really that big of a deal. maybe if you head up north and need to do a lot of mountainous driving?

 

Either way, ABS is not going to help with brake fade. Just need to remember to use engine braking instead.

[Porker]

  On 3/18/2013 at 2:41 AM, Happily1986 said:

fair enough. in our local context, it is not really that big of a deal. maybe if you head up north and need to do a lot of mountainous driving?

 

Mountainous driving must use engine brake lah. If driver rush down a mountain and relies soley on brakes then like I said before... c o c k driver :D But yes brakes may fade for mountainous driving

[Happily1986]

  On 3/18/2013 at 3:20 AM, Porker said:

Mountainous driving must use engine brake lah. If driver rush down a mountain and relies soley on brakes then like I said before... c o c k driver :D But yes brakes may fade for mountainous driving

 

one must/should include some safety margin in design when it comes to systems. What drivers dont usually do to the system, the engineer should include some safety latitude for some robustness because s--t can and will happen.

[Porker]

Too idealistic and only happens in the ideal world. You tell me if Hyundai and Kia did include this robustness into their consideration when designing the Getz and Picanto?

[Happily1986]

  On 3/18/2013 at 3:41 AM, Porker said:

Too idealistic and only happens in the ideal world. You tell me if Hyundai and Kia did include this robustness into their consideration when designing the Getz and Picanto?

 

what the hell are you talking about? including safety margin is being idealistic? you must be addled or have no clue what you are talking about.

 

lest we are talking about different things,

 

"A system is robust when it can continue functioning in the presence of internal and external challenges without fundamental changes to the original system.", this is what what system engineers mean when they talk about robustness.

 

Even cars tuned with supposedly comfort bias set up in terms of suspension have considerable amount of reserve so the car (yes that includes your Getz and Picanto) won't technically flip when subjected to adverse sudden cornering.

 

P.S. don't BS me by saying i am talking nonsense. If you can't refute my reasoning, don't resort to personal attack. you have an impressive track record for that.

[Porker]

  On 3/18/2013 at 4:17 AM, Happily1986 said:

what the hell are you talking about? including safety margin is being idealistic? you must be addled or have no clue what you are talking about.

 

lest we are talking about different things,

 

"A system is robust when it can continue functioning in the presence of internal and external challenges without fundamental changes to the original system.", this is what what system engineers mean when they talk about robustness.

 

Even cars tuned with supposedly comfort bias set up in terms of suspension have considerable amount of reserve so the car (yes that includes your Getz and Picanto) won't technically flip when subjected to adverse sudden cornering.

 

P.S. don't BS me by saying i am talking nonsense. If you can't refute my reasoning, don't resort to personal attack. you have an impressive track record for that.

 

Is saying you're idealistic a personal attack?

 

You're talking about brake fade and that engineers should design for it by having robustness in the design. I'm just answering your question point by point.

 

Tell me if a Picanto or Getz have robustness in design for mountainous driving?

 

You are the one with no clue what you're talking about.

 

Always having a verbal diarrhoea of theories and abstract terms just to confuse others and make you seem like you're an authority on everything you say.

 

What reasoning do you have? Answer my question if Picanto and Getz have been designed without brake fade when barrelling down a mountain.

 

You started the personal attack by saying I have an impressive track record for personal attacks.

 

Stop replying to me if you can't answer to the point. I have no time for stupidity such as you.