Tuning for Front and Rear Speakers

[Audiobean]

Dear Gurus of Car Audio. I'm new to car audio as previously only using HU and direct to speakers. Recently changed car and got a 4-channel amp at the boot powering all front and rear speaker, total 4 speakers + 4 tweeters.

 

The thing is, my rear main speakers are very bass heavy and didn't have enough mids and highs, while my front main speakers are much lesser in bass but focus on mids and highs. I took a long time to tune it properly, but if I tune to optimize for the driver, then my passenger at the rear seat will have very boomy sound. If I optimize for the back seat, then I will hear only mids and highs from my front speakers, and not much bass..

 

It's obvious because everyone is sitting in a different location. I tried to search around but didn't find a good way of tuning yet to balance out the frequencies, any ideas you can give? What is the common method used? Would like to hear your advice on this topic, thanks and appreciate it!

Edited March 6, 2013 by Audiobean

[Fuelsaver]

Sit at ctr of front n ctr of rear to tune front n back spkrs separately until u feel sound like orig recording. To me, I prefer front n rear passengers enjoy music.

 

Other than that, live with it or may need install sound processor I think.

[Theoldjaffa]

In a concert, does the sound come front or back?

 

When listening to music, is it in stereo or surround?

 

When judges judge at ICE competitions, where do they sit?

 

Just feel. And you will get your answers.

[Sigcomms]

Does the HU comes with built-in time alignment? If so, you may like to adjust it to the driver's listening position to achieve proper soundstage.

 

On how to adjust to get the sound you desired, refer to the user manual. As a guide, turn off the rear speaker using the fader control. Turn up the volume to a comfortable level. Delay the sound coming from front right speak to get proper sound imaging. Next turn up the rear speaker volume to a level such that it barely noticable that it is coming from the rear. At this stage, u should either notice an increase in bass or decrease in bass. Adjust the time delay for the rear speakers for optimum sound. Save the setting and do likewise for front passenger side. This is useful if you want your front passengers to enjoy good music by recalling the preset setting.

 

As for rear passengers, the sound should appear as if it is coming from the front with the above setting.

 

You will have to play with the settings over and over again to get the sound that you prefer.

 

The placement of speakers are also important and make sure all your speakers wirings are correctly done.

 

In car audio, it is not possible to satisfy everyone sitting in various locations in the car at the same time.

[Audiobean]

Thanks for all the replies! They are good reads and I am learning more everyday on car audio matter. Hopefully this doesn't lead to more spending.

 

The goal that I wish to achieve is to (hopefully) have everyone in the car, to be able to enjoy hifi quality sound (i.e. good soundstage, good full range frequency response). This should be not just for the front seats, or for just the driver. Thus time alignment (first time hearing, thanks and now I know what is it), fading and tuning at any given location of seats, it will be very good sounding for one but on another seat it will not sound as good already.

 

Music should comes from the front, I take it as a rule of thumb (since many of our hifi sets are all front sounding). So I guess at least, I should have a good full range front speakers. My current setup is that the front speakers are not full range enough but more towards the mids and highs.

 

Nevertheless, will see how I can tune it to please everyone in the car. If this is ever possible.

 

[Theoldjaffa]

Thanks for all the replies! They are good reads and I am learning more everyday on car audio matter. Hopefully this doesn't lead to more spending.

 

The goal that I wish to achieve is to (hopefully) have everyone in the car, to be able to enjoy hifi quality sound (i.e. good soundstage, good full range frequency response). This should be not just for the front seats, or for just the driver. Thus time alignment (first time hearing, thanks and now I know what is it), fading and tuning at any given location of seats, it will be very good sounding for one but on another seat it will not sound as good already.

 

Music should comes from the front, I take it as a rule of thumb (since many of our hifi sets are all front sounding). So I guess at least, I should have a good full range front speakers. My current setup is that the front speakers are not full range enough but more towards the mids and highs.

 

Nevertheless, will see how I can tune it to please everyone in the car. If this is ever possible.

you're almost there in understanding.

 

typically, ICE is for the driver only (at least in my opinion). when you have passengers in the car, emphasis should be spending time communicating instead of just listening to music - again it's personal opinion.

 

yes, music should come from the front. the stage is there. stereo. therefore, rear speakers are redundant. or at least lower the rear speaker volume such that its not audible from the front.

 

full range iirc refers to a single speaker that reproduces all frequencies audible to the human ear. in ICE, you need split drivers. best is to go with a 3-way active setup (tweeter, midrange and midbass) + woofer. active == no crossovers.

 

as per what the other bro pointed out, time alignment to adjust delay to achieve the sound image from the driver position. staging is done via correct placement of the tweeters, midrange.

 

not to forget, soundproofing is critical too. invest in a good HU that allows for time alignment settings and active setup. if your source is crap, you only amplify crap.

 

actually a car is one of the worst places for audio, so just spend enough to get an acceptable SQ will do.

 

go to sgsoundsystem or sgcaraudio to read more.

 

happy ICEing!

[Nicholas]

I'm not into ICE but I do appreciate better quality music compared to my friends who can listen to $10 earphones with 128kbs mp3s. Recently got an under car seat active subwoofer which improves the sound quality a lot. I recommend that you add a subwoofer.

 

I do read a lot before deciding to get one though. Like yours, my stock is rear bass heavy but sounds poor, while front has good mids and highs. Think this is common for most stock. I'm using an inexpensive HU though, JVC.

 

From what I read, bass is omnidirectional so placing the sub where also sounds the same. I'm using low frequency cut off at 85hz for my sub, meaning that 20-85hz, it will be played on my sub, 86hz and above will be played on the front and rear speakers. I read that by doing that, the rear speakers can perform and sound better on the mids and highs because now the sound range is less.

 

I believe most ICErs will not recommend underseat sub but with a small car, I have not much choice. I went for Kenwood so it sounds better than most China brands/re-brands.

[Theoldjaffa]

I'm not into ICE but I do appreciate better quality music compared to my friends who can listen to $10 earphones with 128kbs mp3s. Recently got an under car seat active subwoofer which improves the sound quality a lot. I recommend that you add a subwoofer.

 

I do read a lot before deciding to get one though. Like yours, my stock is rear bass heavy but sounds poor, while front has good mids and highs. Think this is common for most stock. I'm using an inexpensive HU though, JVC.

 

From what I read, bass is omnidirectional so placing the sub where also sounds the same. I'm using low frequency cut off at 85hz for my sub, meaning that 20-85hz, it will be played on my sub, 86hz and above will be played on the front and rear speakers. I read that by doing that, the rear speakers can perform and sound better on the mids and highs because now the sound range is less.

 

I believe most ICErs will not recommend underseat sub but with a small car, I have not much choice. I went for Kenwood so it sounds better than most China brands/re-brands.

my guess, u driving a Fit/Jazz?

 

85hz is too high. go with 60Hz or below, but i don't know if ur active sub can do it.

 

i cut mine off at 50hz. i'm using a 12" passive sub. my previous setup i cut at 40hz.

 

woofer is for the "rumble". the "punch" should come from the midbass. at 85hz it may come across as boomy.

 

BUT BUT BUT.. its personal preference hehe.

[Nicholas]

my guess, u driving a Fit/Jazz?

 

85hz is too high. go with 60Hz or below, but i don't know if ur active sub can do it.

 

i cut mine off at 50hz. i'm using a 12" passive sub. my previous setup i cut at 40hz.

 

woofer is for the "rumble". the "punch" should come from the midbass. at 85hz it may come across as boomy.

 

BUT BUT BUT.. its personal preference hehe.

 

My JVC HU allow 55/85/120hz HPF. Initially set at 120hz, sounds like crap, so I set to lower.

 

If I use 55hz almost can't hear/feel any bass, probably it's because of my music selection. Maybe I can try again later. So currently I set to 85hz, but sometimes lower the volume with wired remote control if the bass too strong.

[BlueOldMan]

100% agreed

Stage is front

We wan that 'live' feel

That's y I regretted after tuning my rear

When I tuned my front

I can feel the singer is at my windscreen

After I tune my rear

Kns all run liao

In future I will jus upgrade n tune front

Anyway u r rite

95% we r Alone in the car

[Theoldjaffa]

My JVC HU allow 55/85/120hz HPF. Initially set at 120hz, sounds like crap, so I set to lower.

 

If I use 55hz almost can't hear/feel any bass, probably it's because of my music selection. Maybe I can try again later. So currently I set to 85hz, but sometimes lower the volume with wired remote control if the bass too strong.

What's your speakers? Do u have amps? Doors soundproofed?

[Fuelsaver]

Don't waste time, have time just call ea other for "auditing" :)

 

Poison deep deep...

Edited March 7, 2013 by Fuelsaver

[Audiobean]

This morning I further checked my signal connections, and surprisingly to find that actually the rear channels from HU it's already kind of having a low pass signals already. Meaning that when the signal leaves HU for the rear, it already filter out some of the highs and mids, thus this is why I don't hear much highs and mids on my rear speakers.

 

When I try to experiment and connect the front signals from HU to the rear speakers input at the amp, then the rear speakers sound like a normal full range speakers.

 

If this is the case, it may not work for me.. because if I tune it very nice for my ear at the driver seat (i.e. vocals and timbre at the front, beats and drums at the rear), then my passenger will have boomy sound which I try to avoid.

 

Unless I try the sub-woofer method which is suggested. Or I totally switch the volume down. A good points though, that when there are passengers in the car it should be more for communication.

 

So just to confirm, is this the case with all HU? I.e. the rear outputs are usually mean for low pass only?

Edited March 8, 2013 by Audiobean

[Mindbox33]

front staging is good... LIVE from the windscreen even your SUB sound like coming from the windscreen rather than behind...thats the power of your tuner skills.

 

but w this set up... rear passengers & front passenger dun really get to enjoy this set up... but who cares..hahaha

 

ICE is a never ending journey....beware!

[Theoldjaffa]

This morning I further checked my signal connections, and surprisingly to find that actually the rear channels from HU it's already kind of having a low pass signals already. Meaning that when the signal leaves HU for the rear, it already filter out some of the highs and mids, thus this is why I don't hear much highs and mids on my rear speakers.

 

When I try to experiment and connect the front signals from HU to the rear speakers input at the amp, then the rear speakers sound like a normal full range speakers.

 

If this is the case, it may not work for me.. because if I tune it very nice for my ear at the driver seat (i.e. vocals and timbre at the front, beats and drums at the rear), then my passenger will have boomy sound which I try to avoid.

 

Unless I try the sub-woofer method which is suggested. Or I totally switch the volume down. A good points though, that when there are passengers in the car it should be more for communication.

 

So just to confirm, is this the case with all HU? I.e. the rear outputs are usually mean for low pass only?

join the sgcaraudio meetups, it happens 2x a month at AMK. learn from the gurus there, audit their setups and then decide on your own direction.

 

as for now, i suggest you leave your HU settings as it is. buy a 2nd hand Alpine processor and let it do the tuning.

 

consult a reputable tuner. many around, just don't use a certain one at sin ming that encourage you to have 2-way component speakers at the front AND back, and do surround sound for music

 

 

[Sigcomms]

If I'm correct, some HU allows setting such that the rear channel output is set for connecting to a small sub. You may like to normalise the setting of your HU so that you get full range sound for your rear speakers. Refer to the user manual.

[Fuelsaver]

Noted n Adjusted before. Perhaps ur MSG for TS.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Fuelsaver

[Sigcomms]

Oops! TS, the message below is meant for you.

 

If I'm correct, some HU allows setting such that the rear channel output is set for connecting to a small sub. You may like to normalise the setting of your HU so that you get full range sound for your rear speakers. Refer to the user manual.