World without COE and ERP

[Zanter]

You want to debate policy or want to suck up to the Pappies?

[TatteredTorn]

  On 2/11/2013 at 12:52 PM, Zanter said:

What rubbish..Many Sg are millionaires. Take a stone an throw you will hit 1 and bounce off another. Dealers should not be allowed to proxy bid. You mean now car r affordable to the average Sg? 200k for 2L car is affordable now to average Singaporeans? What dream world are you in?

 

This is typical example of how EACH AND EVERY Singaporean want to craft out the policies that benefit them the most, or at least they think benefit the masses. But will YOUR policy be suitable and accepted by everyone? If you have the chance to become the govt, this is what you have to face. Criticism.

[Yeshe]

  On 2/11/2013 at 12:23 PM, TatteredTorn said:

One simple explanation - We did not have as many educated Sinaporeans back then. We have an over-qualified workforce right now. In the past, almost all diploma holders and degree holders-to-be became Commanders when they were serving NS. Now, a lot of them have to serve as Men. Back then, having a hands-on technical job is god sent, now it's not.

 

And please do not compare with big countries. They have people from different backgrounds to fill up different jobs. They have lots and lots of people for goodness sake.

 

cannot be lah, u mean nowadys everyone is a degree holder ah?? do u have the statistics? [laugh]

in fact, i believe there will be locals willing to do the job if the pay justifies and able to support basic neccessities such as housing, food, transport, healthcare, etc. do u know that in developed countries, profession such as plumbers, mechanics, electricians, nurses, etc can fetch a very decent salary?

 

 

[Yeshe]

  On 2/11/2013 at 12:56 PM, TatteredTorn said:

This is typical example of how EACH AND EVERY Singaporean want to craft out the policies that benefit them the most, or at least they think benefit the masses. But will YOUR policy be suitable and accepted by everyone? If you have the chance to become the govt, this is what you have to face. Criticism.

 

true, no one policy will benefit everyone and cannot satisfy everyone, BUT its objectives cannot be to satisfy the government first

[TatteredTorn]

  On 2/11/2013 at 12:59 PM, Yeshe said:

cannot be lah, u mean nowadys everyone is a degree holder ah?? do u have the statistics? [laugh]

in fact, i believe there will be locals willing to do the job if the pay justifies and able to support basic neccessities such as housing, food, transport, healthcare, etc. do u know that in developed countries, profession such as plumbers, mechanics, electricians, nurses, etc can fetch a very decent salary?

 

pureness provided the stats for the number of educated singaporeans over the years - diploma and above. Go read his replies.

 

Actually I also agree that those jobs that you mentioned are necessary jobs and should be paid better to attract more locals to sign up for them. BUT at the end of the day, are YOU willing to pay more for their services? An increase in their pay means consumers like me and you got to pay more.

Edited February 11, 2013 by TatteredTorn

[Yeshe]

  On 2/11/2013 at 12:37 PM, TatteredTorn said:

From 30% to 50% --> I would consider that a huge increase! Go check out the stats for other countries and see if they have such good progress. So may I ask you - Do you expect the new 20% "educated" Singaporeans to work on "unwanted" jobs such as technicians and mechanics?

 

Oh you mean you have a diploma? I'm apalled.

 

yes, i know of degree holder who open up car workshop to be mechanic as they have great passion for cars.

so back to the question, even if the education level increases from 30-50%, where are those below the education level suppose to do?

in the past perhaps as hawker, drivers, etc. nowadays all these are replaced by cheaper foreign labour. tell me this is not true.

[Yeshe]

  On 2/11/2013 at 12:44 PM, Zanter said:

Pray tell woot complications if there is no loans for COE and that dealers are not allowed to proxy bid? People are angry for a reason, which the govt intends to suck their blood. These two policy changes will encourage people to be prudent and not be too indebted to the banks just to buy a car. COE at 100k is nuts. A toyota altis here can buy a Porsche 911 in USA, makes sense to you? If makes sense then you should knock your head to get it working again lol.

 

simple reason, it will pichar their lobang [laugh]

[Yeshe]

  On 2/11/2013 at 12:45 PM, TatteredTorn said:

Nope, that's not the crux. Your point earlier is that Singapore had no problems with citizens taking up "unwanted" jobs in the past so why now there is?

 

And my reply to that is simply because we have more educated singaporeans today and they are looking for "better" jobs and are unwilling to take up those jobs anymore.

 

And you provided the figures to prove my point.

 

because the pay for these jobs became so low that the locals can hardly survive. the foreign labour came in and took those jobs because they can survive on white rice + curry sauce as everyday meal, cramp up 8 pax in a bedroom. can u?

[Yeshe]

  On 2/11/2013 at 12:47 PM, Pureness said:

how does this change anything? the problem is the rich china chinese who are migrating over.

they can easily afford to pay 100k in cash

 

your policy will only harm singaporeans who don't have 100k in cash while benefiting those china chinese instead

 

there is a difference. COE is there is control vehicle population, no denial it is require for some form of control. too bad it went out of control some years back that led to the spike in vehicle population.

 

there is still a price tag required for COE, but that price should be defined by the buyer, not the agent ( who are more interested in sales of the car than your COE price that u are going to bid ) or the lowest accepted bid ( someone rich who definitely wants a car can bid $1million for the COE, of course he should be paying $1million instead of the lowest accepted bid )

 

In this way, it creates a sane level where buyers defines the COE not something else.

[TatteredTorn]

  On 2/11/2013 at 1:08 PM, Yeshe said:

yes, i know of degree holder who open up car workshop to be mechanic as they have great passion for cars.

so back to the question, even if the education level increases from 30-50%, where are those below the education level suppose to do?

in the past perhaps as hawker, drivers, etc. nowadays all these are replaced by cheaper foreign labour. tell me this is not true.

 

This is true. Definitely.

 

But like I say, if we close our doors to the foreign labour and open up those jobs strictly to locals only (and locals demand higher pay), it only means that consumers like us got to fork out more money for their services. Tell me this is not true also.

 

We also can't expect the govt to pump in money to help pay for these professions right? If that happens, the tax payers will grumble also. Right?

[TatteredTorn]

  On 2/11/2013 at 1:18 PM, Yeshe said:

there is a difference. COE is there is control vehicle population, no denial it is require for some form of control. too bad it went out of control some years back that led to the spike in vehicle population.

 

there is still a price tag required for COE, but that price should be defined by the buyer, not the agent ( who are more interested in sales of the car than your COE price that u are going to bid ) or the lowest accepted bid ( someone rich who definitely wants a car can bid $1million for the COE, of course he should be paying $1million instead of the lowest accepted bid )

 

In this way, it creates a sane level where buyers defines the COE not something else.

 

No lah... different focus... what pureness wants is for car ownership to not be something exclusive to the "rich" only.

 

Your proposal helps to regulate COE prices and manage it at a more acceptable level, but car ownership is still not affordable to the masses at this level. That's his point.

Edited February 11, 2013 by TatteredTorn

[Yeshe]

  On 2/11/2013 at 1:01 PM, TatteredTorn said:

pureness provided the stats for the number of educated singaporeans over the years - diploma and above. Go read his replies.

 

Actually I also agree that those jobs that you mentioned are necessary jobs and should be paid better to attract more locals to sign up for them. BUT at the end of the day, are YOU willing to pay more for their services? An increase in their pay means consumers like me and you got to pay more.

 

u mean things are any cheaper now?

inflation has been increasing over past years and fact is a big bulk of the cost comes from increase in rental and transportation instead!

and who are the beneficary of these increase? the biggest landlord ( government ) and the transport authority thru COE n ERP ( governement also )

[Yeshe]

  On 2/11/2013 at 1:18 PM, TatteredTorn said:

This is true. Definitely.

 

But like I say, if we close our doors to the foreign labour and open up those jobs strictly to locals only (and locals demand higher pay), it only means that consumers like us got to fork out more money for their services. Tell me this is not true also.

 

We also can't expect the govt to pump in money to help pay for these professions right? If that happens, the tax payers will grumble also. Right?

 

go work out the % increase due to this increase in salary for local workforce compared to the % increase caused by rental and transportation cost.

[Pureness]

  On 2/11/2013 at 1:18 PM, TatteredTorn said:

This is true. Definitely.

 

But like I say, if we close our doors to the foreign labour and open up those jobs strictly to locals only (and locals demand higher pay), it only means that consumers like us got to fork out more money for their services. Tell me this is not true also.

 

We also can't expect the govt to pump in money to help pay for these professions right? If that happens, the tax payers will grumble also. Right?

 

pls la what type of logic is that!

lets use SMRT as an example

 

SMRT books record profits year after year, in 2012 they booked a 120 MILLION profit

why must they increase fares when they have 120 million in profit?

 

also hasn't the govt already pumped in enough money? during the last budget they gave 1.1 billion to increase the number of busses.

 

 

 

[Yeshe]

  On 2/11/2013 at 1:21 PM, TatteredTorn said:

No lah... different focus... what pureness wants is for car ownership to not be something exclusive to the "rich" only.

 

Your proposal helps to regulate COE prices and manage it at a more acceptable level, but car ownership is still not affordable to the masses at this level. That's his point.

 

it can never be able to please everyone. if wanna please everyone, might was well go back to communism

[TatteredTorn]

  On 2/11/2013 at 1:25 PM, Yeshe said:

u mean things are any cheaper now?

inflation has been increasing over past years and fact is a big bulk of the cost comes from increase in rental and transportation instead!

and who are the beneficary of these increase? the biggest landlord ( government ) and the transport authority thru COE n ERP ( governement also )

 

Yah lah true, but inflation aside, you have to agree that if you wanna keep those jobs that you mentioend strictly for locals only, it has the immediate and direct effect of increasing the burden on consumers. Right? If you're a boss, you wouldnt wanna absorb the increase in wages right? You will simply pass it on to the consumers.

[Yeshe]

  On 2/11/2013 at 1:28 PM, Pureness said:

pls la what type of logic is that!

lets use SMRT as an example

 

SMRT books record profits year after year, in 2012 they booked a 120 MILLION profit

why must they increase fares when they have 120 million in profit?

 

also hasn't the govt already pumped in enough money? during the last budget they gave 1.1 billion to increase the number of busses.

 

this is another screw up issue, dunno why public transport is being privatised

u mean there is another train operator that is running another metro line between city hall to bedok so there is competition?

[Yeshe]

  On 2/11/2013 at 1:30 PM, TatteredTorn said:

Yah lah true, but inflation aside, you have to agree that if you wanna keep those jobs that you mentioend strictly for locals only, it has the immediate and direct effect of increasing the burden on consumers. Right? If you're a boss, you wouldnt wanna absorb the increase in wages right? You will simply pass it on to the consumers.

 

if u look at it, where does the bulk of the $$$ goes to? gahmen lah!!!!