World without COE and ERP

[TatteredTorn]

I hear people talking about why the government shouldn't make car ownership so expensive in Singapore. I think we should really calm down and think of the situation from a macro point of view, as a nation and how it will impact our nation as a whole if car ownership was made affordable to the masses.

 

Keep in mind that land is scarce in Singapore.

 

1. Government's fault for implementing COE and ERP.

2. Citizens angry.

3. COE and ERP scrapped.

4. Citizens happy. Rush to buy cars.

5. Roads are jammed up most of the time. It takes 30min to drive from AMK to Bishan.

6. Carparks are perpetually full and it takes 1hr to find a parking lot at the MSCP.

7. Government's fault for not building enough roads and carparks.

8. Citizens angry.

9. Government discards property, retail, industrial, commercial plans to make way for more roads and carparks.

10. Traffic conditions are eased and parking is a breeze.

11. Insufficient HDB flats in the market due to budget and land catered for roads and carparks.

12. Citizens are angry because they cannot find a flat and property prices rocket up due to high demand low supply.

13. Singapore economy takes a plunge because retail, industrial, commercial plans were shelved.

14. Companies start to retrench and cut salaries. Young singaporeans are jobless.

15. Government's fault AGAIN.

16. Citizens angry.

17. And it goes on and on....

 

So instead of thinking about immediate personal gains, why not think for our nation as a whole? Think at a macro level. Think for our future generations. Our selfish actions and demands now may lead to dire consequences for our future generations.

 

I'm not saying all the existing policies are the best and there's no room left for improvement. But remember that while it's easy to criticize, it's tough to come out with better solutions and results. Afterall, talk is cheap.

Edited February 10, 2013 by TatteredTorn

[Bighero]

  On 2/10/2013 at 12:58 PM, TatteredTorn said:

I hear people talking about why the government shouldn't make car ownership so expensive in Singapore. I think we should really calm down and think of the situation from a macro point of view, as a nation and how it will impact our nation as a whole if car ownership was made affordable to the masses.

 

Keep in mind that land is scarce in Singapore.

 

1. Government's fault for implementing COE and ERP.

2. Citizens angry.

3. COE and ERP scrapped.

4. Citizens happy. Rush to buy cars.

5. Roads are jammed up most of the time. It takes 30min to drive from AMK to Bishan.

6. Carparks are perpetually full and it takes 1hr to find a parking lot at the MSCP.

7. Government's fault for not building enough roads and carparks.

8. Citizens angry.

9. Government discards property, retail, industrial, commercial plans to make way for more roads and carparks.

10. Traffic conditions are eased and parking is a breeze.

11. Insufficient HDB flats in the market due to budget and land catered for roads and carparks.

12. Citizens are angry because they cannot find a flat and property prices rocket up due to high demand low supply.

13. Singapore economy takes a plunge because retail, industrial, commercial plans were shelved.

14. Companies start to retrench and cut salaries. Young singaporeans are jobless.

15. Government's fault AGAIN.

16. Citizens angry.

17. And it goes on and on....

So instead of thinking about immediate personal gains, why not think for our nation as a whole? Think at a macro level. Think for our future generations. Our selfish actions and demands now may lead to dire consequences for our future generations.

 

I'm not saying all the existing policies are the best and there's no room left for improvement. But remember that while it's easy to criticize, it's tough to come out with better solutions and results. Afterall, talk is cheap.

 

you should be a politician

[Shibadog]

good points.

 

There's a thin albeit distinct line between car ownership and car usage.

 

the thing is... high fixed costs (ARF, COE) coupled with relatively low marginal costs (petrol, parking, ERP) lead to increased tendency for usage i.e. over consumption. Economics 101.

 

what's $5-$10 daily ERP if people are paying $100k-200K for a car? they will be thinking... "knn i pay $XXXX for my car... better make full use of it, anyway carpark + erp is only $x/100"

 

given this situation, how to persuade car owners to use public transport during peak hours? Esp when considering the current state of mrt/bus systems and also taxi limitations. No push factor + no pull factor; Major fail in psychology + economics.

 

at the end of the day, it seems as though the current situation is geared towards revenue maximisation rather than transport optimisation. Not that the former is necessarily wrong, but the latter objective seems to be a distant secondary target.

 

 

[TatteredTorn]

  On 2/10/2013 at 1:03 PM, Bighero said:

you should be a politician

 

Nah.. I'm not really into politics.

 

I'm just trying to tell everyone not to be hot headed and rash... and then succumb to promises for immediate personal gains.

 

You can't expect living expenses to be low in a developed country that's limited in resources and susceptible to economic threats. One wrong move and we will roll downhill.

 

We are who we are and where we are now because of certain harsh but necessary policies made along the way. We have lots of educated Singaporeans right now who are capable of thinking for themselves and voicing out their concerns on how the country should be run. Could this have been possible if our country has not developed and progressed due to the "harsh" policies meted out in the earlier years?

[Celicar]

What the government is telling us is that scarce resources should only go to those who can pay for it. The jury is out whether a car is a want/need, but regardless, I have an issue with what the government is saying. Josephine Teo says that balloting will reduce the chances of those who really want a car. You kidding me? For those who currently have NO chance of owning a car because of high prices, how will balloting 'reduce' their chances?

[Benarsenal]

I don't begrudge the purpose of COE. It is a fact that we need to impose some sort of limit due to our unique circumstances (lack of land).

 

But I don't like the message that they are sending out, namely that the rich and well-off can circumvent these quotas just because they have money. I'd rather have a fairer system of implementing quotas.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Benarsenal

[Yeshe]

  On 2/10/2013 at 12:58 PM, TatteredTorn said:

I hear people talking about why the government shouldn't make car ownership so expensive in Singapore. I think we should really calm down and think of the situation from a macro point of view, as a nation and how it will impact our nation as a whole if car ownership was made affordable to the masses.

 

Keep in mind that land is scarce in Singapore.

 

1. Government's fault for implementing COE and ERP.

2. Citizens angry.

3. COE and ERP scrapped.

4. Citizens happy. Rush to buy cars.

5. Roads are jammed up most of the time. It takes 30min to drive from AMK to Bishan.

6. Carparks are perpetually full and it takes 1hr to find a parking lot at the MSCP.

7. Government's fault for not building enough roads and carparks.

8. Citizens angry.

9. Government discards property, retail, industrial, commercial plans to make way for more roads and carparks.

10. Traffic conditions are eased and parking is a breeze.

11. Insufficient HDB flats in the market due to budget and land catered for roads and carparks.

12. Citizens are angry because they cannot find a flat and property prices rocket up due to high demand low supply.

13. Singapore economy takes a plunge because retail, industrial, commercial plans were shelved.

14. Companies start to retrench and cut salaries. Young singaporeans are jobless.

15. Government's fault AGAIN.

16. Citizens angry.

17. And it goes on and on....

 

So instead of thinking about immediate personal gains, why not think for our nation as a whole? Think at a macro level. Think for our future generations. Our selfish actions and demands now may lead to dire consequences for our future generations.

 

I'm not saying all the existing policies are the best and there's no room left for improvement. But remember that while it's easy to criticize, it's tough to come out with better solutions and results. Afterall, talk is cheap.

 

err.. i think u missing out the whole point.

land is scarce, agree. policies are never perfect to satisfy EVERYONE, agree.

but something i notice, all gahmen policies to certain solutions are ALWAYS to tax on consumers. besides taxing, do they have better ideas?

COE and ERPs are both a kinda taxation for the gahmen, but are the revenue from these used to improve the "world class" public transport?

ironically, these public transport are privatised to maximise profit.

 

COEs and ERPs policies can definitely be improvised. there already has been alot of good suggestions in place but gahmen dun exercise them becos it potentially might reduce the revenue from these form of taxation.

 

same goes to housing, when problem comes, just go CM and TAX lor. knn liddat anyone can be ministar leow

 

[TatteredTorn]

Fully understand and share your frustrations.

 

But like I say, it's easy to criticize existing policies. But it's tough to propose something else that's feasible and will actually work. I have read about some of the "alternative proposals". If implemented, these will lead to other complications.

 

In Chinese, we say 治镖不治本.

[ATTB]

  On 2/10/2013 at 12:58 PM, TatteredTorn said:

I hear people talking about why the government shouldn't make car ownership so expensive in Singapore. I think we should really calm down and think of the situation from a macro point of view, as a nation and how it will impact our nation as a whole if car ownership was made affordable to the masses.

 

Keep in mind that land is scarce in Singapore.

 

1. Government's fault for implementing COE and ERP.

2. Citizens angry.

3. COE and ERP scrapped.

4. Citizens happy. Rush to buy cars.

5. Roads are jammed up most of the time. It takes 30min to drive from AMK to Bishan.

6. Carparks are perpetually full and it takes 1hr to find a parking lot at the MSCP.

7. Government's fault for not building enough roads and carparks.

8. Citizens angry.

9. Government discards property, retail, industrial, commercial plans to make way for more roads and carparks.

10. Traffic conditions are eased and parking is a breeze.

11. Insufficient HDB flats in the market due to budget and land catered for roads and carparks.

12. Citizens are angry because they cannot find a flat and property prices rocket up due to high demand low supply.

13. Singapore economy takes a plunge because retail, industrial, commercial plans were shelved.

14. Companies start to retrench and cut salaries. Young singaporeans are jobless.

15. Government's fault AGAIN.

16. Citizens angry.

17. And it goes on and on....

 

So instead of thinking about immediate personal gains, why not think for our nation as a whole? Think at a macro level. Think for our future generations. Our selfish actions and demands now may lead to dire consequences for our future generations.

 

I'm not saying all the existing policies are the best and there's no room left for improvement. But remember that while it's easy to criticize, it's tough to come out with better solutions and results. Afterall, talk is cheap.

 

Good one!

[Yeshe]

  On 2/10/2013 at 1:38 PM, TatteredTorn said:

Fully understand and share your frustrations.

 

But like I say, it's easy to criticize existing policies. But it's tough to propose something else that's feasible and will actually work. I have read about some of the "alternative proposals". If implemented, these will lead to other complications.

In Chinese, we say 治镖不治本.

 

isnt tat exactly the same thing when we are trying to rely on immigrants to cover the shortfall due to low birthrates?

[Heartbreakid]

I think it would be naive to think that it is government's fault for implementing ERP and COE, common sense will tell that if cars were to made affordable, there wouldn't be any joy of driving due to the overcrowded vehicles population. I believe most don't blame Gov for implementing COE, but for ERP, does it solves the jamming issue effectively? I still think COE helps alot, EPR don't because it only diverts the traffic volume to another route and the cycle continues, never ending.

 

The people blame GOV not on COE and not able to own a car, but I very much believe is the recent overcrowding issues and the incapability infrastructure unable to cop with the increase number of people and yet, more is still to come without first solving the root cause rightfully at the right time.

[Nicholas]

For COE, it's more like there was a period with cheap COEs which result in overcrowding of cars, then now raise to sky high. It was a mismanagement on their part which resulted in today's coe price.

[Ezfaun]

I really think It's no one's fault. Put it simply, we're running out of breathing space in terms of transport. Don't really think we can blame the coe or the general population because

 

the number of drivers as a whole is growing rapidly and there is only so much space we could use. Even if the gov were to extend our land area, my prediction is that the traffic flow

 

would only change slightly because people would always go towards the more centralized areas like cbd. Actually, I am much in favor of the current vehicle density limiting procedure AKA COE.

 

One could only imagine what it would be like when the gov increases the population to 6.9m. If I were to ask my neighbours, all of them would shudder to the thought of this preposterous idea.

[Kb27]

  On 2/10/2013 at 12:58 PM, TatteredTorn said:

Keep in mind that land is scarce in Singapore.

 

Really ?

 

White paper say can stuff 6.9m people into SG.

 

I don't think that's scarce.

[Hosaybo]

I think limiting no of cars base on coe is fine. You pay tax aka coe to get this luxury item. What i dun like about it is the way gov manage it...... See saw supply leading to fluctuating price, not making enough effort to address public transport issue.

[Alim]

 

COE like CPF started as something good and purposeful.

 

But I can't say the same now. It has been manipulated for a different purpose.

[Lanevomax]

wrong topic....

 

should be "singapore without COE and ERP...."

 

in the world only , singapore had this kind of shitty control...

[13177]

  On 2/10/2013 at 2:43 PM, Nicholas said:

For COE, it's more like there was a period with cheap COEs which result in overcrowding of cars, then now raise to sky high. It was a mismanagement on their part which resulted in today's coe price.

If they did not miscalculate the Coe and resulted the low Coe back then. Wonder how much would the Coe now?