Yeshe Turbocharged December 25, 2012 Share December 25, 2012 I think I will get flame and tag as pappy for saying this... Just my 2 cents worth of tot... Got tender throw out and open to the public... so cannot call corruption lah... The price charge is not really expensive, even if we factor in the cost of $785 monthly fee per TC. Unlike those "off the shelf" software used and paid by millions of organisations, this is a fully customised software where the developer wont be able to sell it to any other organisation. On top of that, with all the requirement, terms and conditions stated in a standard Gov tender document, the cost is not low... The tenderer need to design the software based on user needs + requirement and such meetings alone could eats up 2 engineer man month, not to mentioned interface with other existing systems and vendor.... then tenderer will then have to setup a development platform to test all the hardware and software to shows that the system provided could work fine... Many tender will even require the tenderer to surrender their source code once the system commenced! which means, the customised software developed could be maintain, altered or even redesign by another developer if the customer felt that the vendor doesnt met their expectation and decided to switch to another vendor... That is why, many companies never even want to consider taking gov projects. 140K?? that kind of price is not even enough to support 1 FT indian software engineer + 1 local project manager for 6 month! i agree wth what u say if this is a full turnkey comprehensive service. but apparently based on the findings reported, this company is just an empty shell. ↡ Advertisement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonvios 1st Gear December 25, 2012 Share December 25, 2012 I think I will get flame and tag as pappy for saying this... Just my 2 cents worth of tot... Got tender throw out and open to the public... so cannot call corruption lah... The price charge is not really expensive, even if we factor in the cost of $785 monthly fee per TC. Unlike those "off the shelf" software used and paid by millions of organisations, this is a fully customised software where the developer wont be able to sell it to any other organisation. On top of that, with all the requirement, terms and conditions stated in a standard Gov tender document, the cost is not low... The tenderer need to design the software based on user needs + requirement and such meetings alone could eats up 2 engineer man month, not to mentioned interface with other existing systems and vendor.... then tenderer will then have to setup a development platform to test all the hardware and software to shows that the system provided could work fine... Many tender will even require the tenderer to surrender their source code once the system commenced! which means, the customised software developed could be maintain, altered or even redesign by another developer if the customer felt that the vendor doesnt met their expectation and decided to switch to another vendor... That is why, many companies never even want to consider taking gov projects. 140K?? that kind of price is not even enough to support 1 FT indian software engineer + 1 local project manager for 6 month! I worked in software house before, I would have agreed with u if the software was developed and maintained by AIM. The fact is that the software was developed by TCs and sold to an empty shell company and then lease back to the TCs, it makes no logical and business sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomish 2nd Gear December 25, 2012 Share December 25, 2012 I think I will get flame and tag as pappy for saying this... Just my 2 cents worth of tot... Got tender throw out and open to the public... so cannot call corruption lah... The price charge is not really expensive, even if we factor in the cost of $785 monthly fee per TC. Unlike those "off the shelf" software used and paid by millions of organisations, this is a fully customised software where the developer wont be able to sell it to any other organisation. On top of that, with all the requirement, terms and conditions stated in a standard Gov tender document, the cost is not low... The tenderer need to design the software based on user needs + requirement and such meetings alone could eats up 2 engineer man month, not to mentioned interface with other existing systems and vendor.... then tenderer will then have to setup a development platform to test all the hardware and software to shows that the system provided could work fine... Many tender will even require the tenderer to surrender their source code once the system commenced! which means, the customised software developed could be maintain, altered or even redesign by another developer if the customer felt that the vendor doesnt met their expectation and decided to switch to another vendor... That is why, many companies never even want to consider taking gov projects. 140K?? that kind of price is not even enough to support 1 FT indian software engineer + 1 local project manager for 6 month! Off topic... we are talking about AIM not NCS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D3badge 6th Gear December 25, 2012 Share December 25, 2012 To give them the benefit of doubt. The highest level may not know what's going on with the middle management level. The highest level salary so high, why would they want to risk it with this questionable 'profit'. There is a reason why u are the top people. if you duuno or cant control what is going on, in short you are incompetent. Just like Barclays CEO Robert Diamond take the hit.... it is no excuse for top management to say "I dunno" ignorance ia no excuese in law, you still get prosecuted. There is no weak platoon, only weak leadership Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruriimasu 1st Gear December 25, 2012 Share December 25, 2012 hello, if not wrong, AIM leases the software licence to TCs only. Hardware and software support, TC provide for themselves. So the question here is, even if proper tender procedures were followed, what benefit does the TCs get by selling the software to AIM? I think I will get flame and tag as pappy for saying this... Just my 2 cents worth of tot... Got tender throw out and open to the public... so cannot call corruption lah... The price charge is not really expensive, even if we factor in the cost of $785 monthly fee per TC. Unlike those "off the shelf" software used and paid by millions of organisations, this is a fully customised software where the developer wont be able to sell it to any other organisation. On top of that, with all the requirement, terms and conditions stated in a standard Gov tender document, the cost is not low... The tenderer need to design the software based on user needs + requirement and such meetings alone could eats up 2 engineer man month, not to mentioned interface with other existing systems and vendor.... then tenderer will then have to setup a development platform to test all the hardware and software to shows that the system provided could work fine... Many tender will even require the tenderer to surrender their source code once the system commenced! which means, the customised software developed could be maintain, altered or even redesign by another developer if the customer felt that the vendor doesnt met their expectation and decided to switch to another vendor... That is why, many companies never even want to consider taking gov projects. 140K?? that kind of price is not even enough to support 1 FT indian software engineer + 1 local project manager for 6 month! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johorat 1st Gear December 25, 2012 Share December 25, 2012 The deal involved the sale of software, while the ownership of hardware remained with all the town councils, Teo Ho Pin, coordinating chairman of the 14 PAP town councils, said. --------------------------- if that the case why PAP TC need to pay AIM for the lease of the software on a monthly basis? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hub_n_mona 1st Gear December 25, 2012 Share December 25, 2012 (edited) I think I will get flame and tag as pappy for saying this... Just my 2 cents worth of tot... Got tender throw out and open to the public... so cannot call corruption lah... The price charge is not really expensive, even if we factor in the cost of $785 monthly fee per TC. Unlike those "off the shelf" software used and paid by millions of organisations, this is a fully customised software where the developer wont be able to sell it to any other organisation. On top of that, with all the requirement, terms and conditions stated in a standard Gov tender document, the cost is not low... The tenderer need to design the software based on user needs + requirement and such meetings alone could eats up 2 engineer man month, not to mentioned interface with other existing systems and vendor.... then tenderer will then have to setup a development platform to test all the hardware and software to shows that the system provided could work fine... Many tender will even require the tenderer to surrender their source code once the system commenced! which means, the customised software developed could be maintain, altered or even redesign by another developer if the customer felt that the vendor doesnt met their expectation and decided to switch to another vendor... That is why, many companies never even want to consider taking gov projects. 140K?? that kind of price is not even enough to support 1 FT indian software engineer + 1 local project manager for 6 month! erm..not sure if the interpretation is correct. the tender was to sell the software, not to develop the software. 1) NCS developed the software and paid by the town councils. It was not developed by AIM. How much was paid for the development was not made clear but guesstimate should be more than 140k? so by your own reckoning, AIM got the software for less than peanuts 2) The rights of the developed software was then sold to AIM for 140k and the town councils have to lease the system for SGD 785 PER town council. by the way, on your comment "this is a fully customised software where the developer wont be able to sell it to any other organisation.", I can't find the webby again but I read somewhere that the reason given earlier in this AIM episode for selling the software is so that AIM can better market it to other organisations and monetise the software, i.e. precisely what you feel can't be done. Would appreciate if someone can locate that particular "reason". Edited December 25, 2012 by Hub_n_mona Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopites Supersonic December 25, 2012 Share December 25, 2012 Think about it. 14 TCs own the system. Basically, that means don't have to pay anything. Instead, they sold the rights to the system to someone who then lease back for a monthly fee?! What this company needs to do is... NOTHING. They just collect rent. The systems remained at the TCs?! Would you buy a house for $1m then sell it for half the price so that you can rent it for $1k to stay in it? I can understand that 13 out of the 14 TC agreed on the leasing with monetary incentive in mind. THE LAST TC I would expect is ANG MO KIO TOWN COUNCIL. That GRC consist of the PRIME MINISTER OF SINGAPORE. For goodness sake.....either he is ignorant (Unknow of what is happening) or incapable (not able to foresee the underlying aspect of the leaseback). Disclaimer : that is solely my opinion based on the facts collaborated from main stream media till date. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianmo Hypersonic December 25, 2012 Share December 25, 2012 simple forward planning lah..............they are preparing for the day to come when they lost control of gov and become the biggest opp party...........you can win the election and form gov...............but the biggest opp party controls the infrastructural and all key organisations............they will still be in control in a way............ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hub_n_mona 1st Gear December 25, 2012 Share December 25, 2012 The deal involved the sale of software, while the ownership of hardware remained with all the town councils, Teo Ho Pin, coordinating chairman of the 14 PAP town councils, said. --------------------------- if that the case why PAP TC need to pay AIM for the lease of the software on a monthly basis? not sure why it was important to mention this..lol what use for the hardware if the software is owned by someone else? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wind30 Turbocharged December 25, 2012 Author Share December 25, 2012 On top of that, with all the requirement, terms and conditions stated in a standard Gov tender document, the cost is not low... The tenderer need to design the software based on user needs + requirement and such meetings alone could eats up 2 engineer man month, not to mentioned interface with other existing systems and vendor.... then tenderer will then have to setup a development platform to test all the hardware and software to shows that the system provided could work fine... Many tender will even require the tenderer to surrender their source code once the system commenced! which means, the customised software developed could be maintain, altered or even redesign by another developer if the customer felt that the vendor doesnt met their expectation and decided to switch to another vendor... That is why, many companies never even want to consider taking gov projects. 140K?? that kind of price is not even enough to support 1 FT indian software engineer + 1 local project manager for 6 month! ya lor... I bet it cost MUCH more than $140k to develop the software so why did TC sell it for $140k to AIM??? Only to lease it back at $132k/year? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hub_n_mona 1st Gear December 25, 2012 Share December 25, 2012 (edited) some of the questions asked by others are, if the directors of AIM do not collect director fees, and it is a $2 company, nobody asked where did the $140k come from, before entering into a sales-leaseback relationship? also, our town councils dare to enter into a relationship with a $2 company? even if dare, no conflict of interest with regards to the makeup of the company? who made the decision? guess not the residents who paid the town councils' charges. another surprise after finding out losses in investments the previous time. also, if there is only one tender bid, thought the tender process should be restarted? not sure about this but a stall wasnt awarded to a sole bidder earlier on because it was the only bid? Edited December 25, 2012 by Hub_n_mona Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopites Supersonic December 25, 2012 Share December 25, 2012 Simple mathematics; Let assume all hardware "donated" by charitiable org/company. Tell me how many IT personnel needed to write/set up a system to be use by 14 TC through out a period of 15 months? Let say 14 IT prof on job and so each taking home 10k pa (Brought by AIM for $140,000)? TC really talk c--k sing song. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wt_know Supersonic December 25, 2012 Share December 25, 2012 (edited) is this a wake up call that all TC should use an independent 3rd party system from the open market? GRC and SMC can change hand and there is no point to terminate contract and change system right ... by the time new system is setup is already 1+ year wasted? Edited December 25, 2012 by Wt_know Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianmo Hypersonic December 25, 2012 Share December 25, 2012 is this a wake up call that all TC should use an independent 3rd party system from the open market? GRC and SMC can change hand and there is no point to terminate contract and change system right ... by the time new system is setup is already 1+ year wasted? I concur with this................ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gukubird Neutral Newbie December 25, 2012 Share December 25, 2012 Any idea where are the 14 PAP town councils? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigershark1976 Turbocharged December 25, 2012 Share December 25, 2012 I worked in software house before, I would have agreed with u if the software was developed and maintained by AIM. The fact is that the software was developed by TCs and sold to an empty shell company and then lease back to the TCs, it makes no logical and business sense. huh??? sorry and I will take back my words if what u mentioned is true.... its either the person in charge is a plain idiot, or something is very wrong some where... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe 3rd Gear December 25, 2012 Share December 25, 2012 If the folding bike deal is a case, this AIM surely is a bigger case for CPIB! Just as ppl can move goalpost during election, ppl can also make big case become small, black become white. Anyway, 60% dont care. ↡ Advertisement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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