LKY say we need more foreigners

[Zanter]

Well thats life, anyway MNC problem is that when the head accountant in Europe says doesn't make $ sense to be here or some merger /acquisition occurs, the company will close or downsize, but at least give some benefits to employees. SME retrench, dunno if have thank you note or not.

[Cars08]

Well thats life, anyway MNC problem is that when the head accountant in Europe says doesn't make $ sense to be here or some merger /acquisition occurs, the company will close or downsize, but at least give some benefits to employees. SME retrench, dunno if have thank you note or not.

 

Well, put it this way, MNCs looks at overall running costs when considering whether to pull out...if resources are tight and they will face an increasing rising cost environment. In order to compete, they relocate elsewhere and retrenchment will affect quite a big group... for SMEs, it is a different case, they fail then good as less pressure on the labor demand which will ease off salary competition and price...

 

Pls note that SMEs value vs MNC value, we know for sure which one has a greater impact on the country. I guess the choice is clear, I rather allow SMEs to fail or force them to relocate so that they can survive better instead of depending on just cheap labor which will not put pressure on lowering costs but instead the situation we face today.

 

We jus have to constantly supply quality graduates for the jobs govt brought in and to keep running costs competitive.

 

[Enye]

unless the MNC is engaged in low value labour intensive manufacturing in Singapore,

 

when an MNC makes a decision to downsize or close, pay is only a small factor in the decision making process as we are not as expensive as US or Europe labour costs

 

but for the SMEs I worked for,

 

I can only say the towkays' lifestyles were very different from their employees

 

and sad to say, their businesses are usually low value labour intensive.

 

[Zanter]

unless the MNC is engaged in low value labour intensive manufacturing in Singapore,

 

when an MNC makes a decision to downsize or close, pay is only a small factor in the decision making process as we are not as expensive as US or Europe labour costs

 

but for the SMEs I worked for,

 

I can only say the towkays' lifestyles were very different from their employees

 

and sad to say, their businesses are usually low value labour intensive.

 

 

At one time I recall the "great" Phillip Yeo statied that the shipbuilding industry is a "sunset" industry w/o good future but how wrong he was. So some industries may not fair well now so throw out the baby with the bath water? To draw this as a class war between the towkays and the workers is inaccurate. The towkays can well afford to move to Iskandar but will the Sg worker move to Iskandar? The Sg workers will be replaced by Malaysians or the Indonesians migrants.

 

What is likely to happen is that the cost of living in Sg will go higher and higher because the dreaded "cheap"labour is not cheap anymore. Security cost will rise, cleaning cost will increase, renovation cost will be increased as its harder to find skilled labourers, car repair cost will go up, food cost will go etc etc. So there are ramifications is getting what the workers want..less competition for their work. Who benefits in the end?

[Acemundo]

At one time I recall the "great" Phillip Yeo statied that the shipbuilding industry is a "sunset" industry w/o good future but how wrong he was. So some industries may not fair well now so throw out the baby with the bath water? To draw this as a class war between the towkays and the workers is inaccurate. The towkays can well afford to move to Iskandar but will the Sg worker move to Iskandar? The Sg workers will be replaced by Malaysians or the Indonesians migrants.

 

What is likely to happen is that the cost of living in Sg will go higher and higher because the dreaded "cheap"labour is not cheap anymore. Security cost will rise, cleaning cost will increase, renovation cost will be increased as its harder to find skilled labourers, car repair cost will go up, food cost will go etc etc. So there are ramifications is getting what the workers want..less competition for their work. Who benefits in the end?

 

in australia, a lowly educated but skilled worker like plumber is paid very well. i think australians also cannot afford to hire maid.

 

and i always remember how expensive their meal at simple cafe or eatery cost. because australians have to be paid a lot to do simple work like even cooking. compare the prices of their raw meat and vegetables and those that are sold in eateries and cafes and we will understand how well paid are australians that are even lowly educated.

[Windwaver]

Yes, this it true, so far I have been to quit a few places to work and I have seem almost similar cases everywhere. As long as the manager is non SG, at least half of his/her staff are from same country. How these people can get the job, you know I know.

 

Current status is already too late, most of the good jobs that local want to work are already gone to FT. These people will not want to employ local not because local are expensive, they just want of bring in their own people for many other reason.

 

Precisely. To be fair, most Singaporeans that I come across (including me) don't mind real talents that really benefits our economy. However, 'free loaders' are a different story.

[Nightkids]

But casino brings in big bucks for the government coffers!

 

 

and big problems as well.......

[13177]

Precisely. To be fair, most Singaporeans that I come across (including me) don't mind real talents that really benefits our economy. However, 'free loaders' are a different story.

True, i dont mind real talents to come in but confirm against those 'free loaders'.

[Cars08]

At one time I recall the "great" Phillip Yeo statied that the shipbuilding industry is a "sunset" industry w/o good future but how wrong he was. So some industries may not fair well now so throw out the baby with the bath water? To draw this as a class war between the towkays and the workers is inaccurate. The towkays can well afford to move to Iskandar but will the Sg worker move to Iskandar? The Sg workers will be replaced by Malaysians or the Indonesians migrants.

 

What is likely to happen is that the cost of living in Sg will go higher and higher because the dreaded "cheap"labour is not cheap anymore. Security cost will rise, cleaning cost will increase, renovation cost will be increased as its harder to find skilled labourers, car repair cost will go up, food cost will go etc etc. So there are ramifications is getting what the workers want..less competition for their work. Who benefits in the end?

 

Think you are putting it in the wrong context. Ship building if competed at Singapore home ground, we will lose out to the rest of the world due to space scarcity and cost effectiveness. This is true. We do not have the luxury of that and there are better use for our water space than shipbuilding. Shipping will continue to be harness by countries who wishes to trade. By saying how wrong Phillip Yeo is, you could be putting his thought in a wrong perspective.

 

It towkways can well afford to move to Iskandar, please move. I want to see it taking place and make sure they can convince Msia govt to allow more Indonesia migrants in if Msians are too expensive to hire.

 

Freeing up resources for better use means we could indirectly enhance on our productivity and build up on our capabilities rather than depending on SMEs to succeed. We attract high tech and companies which need better quality pool of supply workforce. This is done thru our continuous effort to build more universities and churning out better grade workers.

 

Higher quality workers command higher pay, which will in turn improve living standard over time rather than mere cost of living. We should encourage constant upgrading of one's skill for all Singaporeans and adopt a continuous learning mindset to keep up.

 

I trust Singaporeans wan to move continuing moving forward to a rich nation where everyone enjoys great growth and high standard of living. By having less non-core activities cluttering our system, we would be better off. Yes, there will be ppl who may become less relevant due to education level or job set. They can always be re-train if they maintain a positive attitude and switch to service industry.

 

 

 

[Zanter]

in australia, a lowly educated but skilled worker like plumber is paid very well. i think australians also cannot afford to hire maid.

 

and i always remember how expensive their meal at simple cafe or eatery cost. because australians have to be paid a lot to do simple work like even cooking. compare the prices of their raw meat and vegetables and those that are sold in eateries and cafes and we will understand how well paid are australians that are even lowly educated.

 

Yup in essence this is where we are heading. In otherwords, it lowering our standard of living! What used to be affordable due to available migrate workers will get to be so expensive that we will all DIY( this time is really DIY shop!). In US, the cost of repairs etc are so high many people have to repair their own cars, do their own plumbing, wood work and cook at home as restaurants are prohibitively expensive and just for special occasions. That is why the revised migrant reduction is a double edged sword and it cuts yourself even more than the migrant workers. Many people dont appreciate this consequence.

[Acemundo]

this part about the lowly skilled worker i think most people can agree.

 

what is your take on the middle level ones like PMET ?

[Enye]

At one time I recall the "great" Phillip Yeo statied that the shipbuilding industry is a "sunset" industry w/o good future but how wrong he was. So some industries may not fair well now so throw out the baby with the bath water? To draw this as a class war between the towkays and the workers is inaccurate. The towkays can well afford to move to Iskandar but will the Sg worker move to Iskandar? The Sg workers will be replaced by Malaysians or the Indonesians migrants.

 

What is likely to happen is that the cost of living in Sg will go higher and higher because the dreaded "cheap"labour is not cheap anymore. Security cost will rise, cleaning cost will increase, renovation cost will be increased as its harder to find skilled labourers, car repair cost will go up, food cost will go etc etc. So there are ramifications is getting what the workers want..less competition for their work. Who benefits in the end?

 

bottomline is

 

I feel there is something wrong when people in low skilled jobs are shortchanged by towkays with extravagant lifestyles to keep up with their successful businessman image. if these towkays are out of business because they cannot exploit cheap labour anymore, so be it. People in low skilled jobs should earn enough to put food on the table and have a roof over their heads. and please don't tell me 1K per month is enough to buy flat.

 

I would like to see more tightening over the influx of mid level executives and middle managers so that our children have better job opportunities and possibly lower housing costs. What kind of career opportunities do you think our children would have when a large proportion of the hiring managers are FT in future?

 

if implementing these changes will lead to rising living costs as you said (not a foregone conclusion i feel), i would gladly live with it. Anyway the living costs has risen and is expected to continue to rise in the present scenario.

 

so now can you tell me what exactly are you pushing for in this exchange of views?

 

[Kerropi]

My advice to all these companies, if you wan to threaten relocating, please do so and by all means if you think you can survive better overseas. Isn't this the aim of our govt to encourage SMEs to go regional, what is stopping you all these while?

 

Cheap labour has become a drug to most SMEs, this has to stop and I would think it is best to let such companies fail to grow the pie of the competitive ones. Many years, these SMEs did not want to invest and take the short-cut depending our govt on giving out passes for cheap labour. As we bring in more educated workforce, we must bring in biz that need such knowledge and remove those that are not core.

 

I believe, with less demand around, it has lesser stress on the infrastructure and it has lesser impact on the overall price level and making this place more conducive in attracting quality investment. Competitiors that are able to compete well, can take over those that wind up and relocate as their service delivery will not be able to turn around as fast as what they would like to see in Singapore and they have more issues to deal with when overseas. Hence, I feel that this is empty threat and such SMEs should be allow to fail and not stay put.

 

*************************************

 

 

Well Said !!! It's time for Singapore to think how we want to position ourself ??? Cheap Labour or LEAN workforce ... Can this work out as a long term direction to resolve labour shortage ? Do we need to have 5 million people here in Singapore ? So much talk about good control when we have a cannot manage the car population issue here ...

 

[Kangadrool]

My advice to all these companies, if you wan to threaten relocating, please do so and by all means if you think you can survive better overseas. Isn't this the aim of our govt to encourage SMEs to go regional, what is stopping you all these while?

 

Cheap labour has become a drug to most SMEs, this has to stop and I would think it is best to let such companies fail to grow the pie of the competitive ones. Many years, these SMEs did not want to invest and take the short-cut depending our govt on giving out passes for cheap labour. As we bring in more educated workforce, we must bring in biz that need such knowledge and remove those that are not core.

 

I believe, with less demand around, it has lesser stress on the infrastructure and it has lesser impact on the overall price level and making this place more conducive in attracting quality investment. Competitiors that are able to compete well, can take over those that wind up and relocate as their service delivery will not be able to turn around as fast as what they would like to see in Singapore and they have more issues to deal with when overseas. Hence, I feel that this is empty threat and such SMEs should be allow to fail and not stay put.

 

*************************************

 

 

Well Said !!! It's time for Singapore to think how we want to position ourself ??? Cheap Labour or LEAN workforce ... Can this work out as a long term direction to resolve labour shortage ? Do we need to have 5 million people here in Singapore ? So much talk about good control when we have a cannot manage the car population issue here ...

 

Even if they want to move to nearby JB, some of these industries and companies are not welcomed by MY either. So, why are we so hard up and fearful of their threats???

Edited October 3, 2012 by Kangadrool

[Zanter]

bottom linee is

 

I feel there is something wrong when people in low skilled jobs are shortchanged by towkays with extravagant lifestyles to keep up with their successful businessman image. if these towkays are out of business because they cannot exploit cheap labour anymore, so be it. People in low skilled jobs should earn enough to put food on the table and have a roof over their heads. and please don't tell me 1K per month is enough to buy flat.

 

I would like to see more tightening over the influx of mid level executives and middle managers so that our children have better job opportunities and possibly lower housing costs. What kind of career opportunities do you think our children would have when a large proportion of the hiring managers are FT in future?

 

if implementing these changes will lead to rising living costs as you said (not a foregone conclusion i feel), i would gladly live with it. Anyway the living costs has risen and is expected to continue to rise in the present scenario.

 

so now can you tell me what exactly are you pushing for in this exchange of views?

 

 

It is obvious you dont work in SME or have relatives or friends working in SME . Anyway the SME employees die is their problem?

 

Just trying to give a balance view, cos it not so simple to just kick out the foreigners and life will be easier, happier or that it will result in Utopia. Some people see SME statement as a threat but personaly I dont think so as I have seen the difficulties of doing business here and the reality is some business owners are having difficulty.

 

Some people may wish to turn back the clocks, where things are simplier, cheaper, less competition but this myopic view is not realistic for the main reason why Sg is economically successful compared to lets say Malaysia, is that Sg economy is globalised whereas Malaysia's economy is protectionist.

 

To be honest if it were not for Malaysia's protectionist policies, Sg will not as as successful. Think about it, what does Sg have that M'sia doesnt? M'sia is so resource rich with oil, lots of land, educated labor force but due to their discriminatory policies, many chinese migrants moved to Sg. I dare not use the word talent but all of the old cabinet mimisters with exception of LKY were Malaysians and I dare say Sg will not be the same without their valued contribution. Sg opened itself to the world and tapped itself to the Global economy and grew and grew, whereas Msia' adopted the protectionist policies to protect locals(bumi) from competition and didnt do as well. SG$1= RM2.5 speaks for itself?

 

So which path to take? Take the Sg past success route or be like Malaysia? I suspect that only Malaysia can be like"Malaysia" due to their rich resources. If Sg take the Malaysia route, I dare not think of the consequences . Anyway my views will not waive anyone's fixed mind nor change anything at all. Heck maybe I am not even right

Edited October 4, 2012 by Zanter

[Kangadrool]

In such a small tiny island with little red tapes and if businesses are finding difficulties doing business, then I say, please die better. These companies aren't worth their salt here and please move to other countries where they deemed grass is greener and moon is rounder. Please do not continue to bank on cheap and ready influx of cheap foreign labours.

[Brendon1980]

It is obvious you dont work in SME or have relatives or friends working in SME . Anyway the SME employees die is their problem?

 

Just trying to give a balance view, cos it not so simple to just kick out the foreigners and life will be easier, happier or that it will result in Utopia. Some people see SME statement as a threat but personaly I dont think so as I have seen the difficulties of doing business here and the reality is some business owners are having difficulty.

 

Some people may wish to turn back the clocks, where things are simplier, cheaper, less competition but this myopic view is not realistic for the main reason why Sg is economically successful compared to lets say Malaysia, is that Sg economy is globalised whereas Malaysia's economy is protectionist.

 

To be honest if it were not for Malaysia's protectionist policies, Sg will not as as successful. Think about it, what does Sg have that M'sia doesnt? M'sia is so resource rich with oil, lots of land, educated labor force but due to their discriminatory policies, many chinese migrants moved to Sg. I dare not use the word talent but all of the old cabinet mimisters with exception of LKY were Malaysians and I dare say Sg will not be the same without their valued contribution. Sg opened itself to the world and tapped itself to the Global economy and grew and grew, whereas Msia' adopted the protectionist policies to protect locals(bumi) from competition and didnt do as well. SG$1= RM2.5 speaks for itself?

 

So which path to take? Take the Sg past success route or be like Malaysia? I suspect that only Malaysia can be like"Malaysia" due to their rich resources. If Sg take the Malaysia route, I dare not think of the consequences . Anyway my views will not waive anyone's fixed mind nor change anything at all. Heck maybe I am not even right

 

I was going thru all your postings and trying to rationalize what your intention is and I find it hard to understand...

Are you an employer?

So bottomline is we must have cheap labour to survive?