Indonesian Maid Salary to increase

[Baal]

  On 1/19/2015 at 2:28 AM, L23 said:

If the maid know how to protect herself and well-behave, the employers will of cos more willing to give them day off.

Thats the problem, getting a maid that can do the above is akin to getting a FT who is truly a FT.

[Ingenius]

  On 1/19/2015 at 3:46 AM, Baal said:

Thats the problem, getting a maid that can do the above is akin to getting a FT who is truly a FT.

I guess the way is to treat the maid with well, with respect and dignity most importantly, and hope that she will reciprocate.

[Neost]

Employers have to CLOSE one eye and SHUT one eye. Seriously, no error is close one and shut the other eye. Basically no eye to see

 

As long as they do their chores and don't give trouble, I think that is already a blessing.

 

I engage a Filipino taking care of my mother. I have to empty the house waste basket everyday and clean those secluded corners of the house myself. Told her many times until I sian. Just DIY. Faster and better.

 

As long as she takes care of my mum, I can live with the rest of issues

[Darryn]

  On 1/19/2015 at 3:42 AM, Ingenius said:

There can be no system that is perfect one. Too strict or too lax will benefit one party and disadvantaged the other. Rules are set but the employer and domestic worker both should seek to give and take. If both parties are understanding and nice to the other party, they can work out a compromises and all is fine. Cannot blame the system entirely.

Where you got the statistics from ?

You know the very best way to keep your maid safe when she is out and about on her day off?

 

Give her hands on, practical demonstration of what is required to be safe.

After all - when you train her to cook, you do it with her the first few times right? Show her how to turn on stove, how to cut vege, etc etc - so why would giving "written" instructions work with day off activities?

 

Remember my maid - first day pick her up even had to show her her to buckle safety belt (and I do mean the one in the car, I am not speaking metaphorically)

[L23]

  On 1/19/2015 at 3:03 AM, Lightbringer said:

 

If the boss of this "fresh grad" is liable for the personal behaviour of the fresh grad, to the extent of being required to put up a bond to guarantee his/her good behaviour, then yes, the boss does have a right to question the fresh grad's behaviour.

 

MOM also requires employers to be liable for their maid behaviour outside of the work scope - tell me which other jobs penalizes you if your employee gets pregnant? Or commits a crime? Or chooses to play punk and go MIA? How can you push the responsibility of somebody's wellbeing and wellfare 24/7 within specific boundaries onto an employer, without the equivalent rights or authority to enforce such boundaries?

 

It's just like a reverse form of bail - you bail somebody, you are essentially guaranteeing his/her good behaviour for the courts. So if he/she absconds your bail is forfeit. How is this unreasonable?

 

Blame the system, not the participants. I see it as a flaw arising from a flawed system. You need to be able to frame things in context and not just distill them to simple A B C principles and then argue for these in isolation.

 

Bro, you just pointed out the essence of this law 'protecting' the maid.

 

Something to add on, I do heard of cases where the maid fail sick (real sick, one even gotten cancer), the employer is liable for all the medical fee.

How on earth gonna do with the employers sia?

 

When the hospital are short of bed, the govt tell us to stay healthy so that we will pay high medical fee and take up their bed.

Can the employer in turn tell the maid to stay healthy by doing bleh bleh bleh.......?

 

So employer, you better pray hard your maid don't fall sick when she is under your employment

[Jman888]

  On 1/19/2015 at 4:11 AM, L23 said:

 

Bro, you just pointed out the essence of this law 'protecting' the maid.

 

Something to add on, I do heard of cases where the maid fail sick (real sick, one even gotten cancer), the employer is liable for all the medical fee.

How on earth gonna do with the employers sia?

 

When the hospital are short of bed, the govt tell us to stay healthy so that we will pay high medical fee and take up their bed.

Can the employer in turn tell the maid to stay healthy by doing bleh bleh bleh.......?

 

So employer, you better pray hard your maid don't fall sick when she is under your employment

 

 

this statement very inhumane leh, we as employee dun even stay in our boss house also get medical coverage, not to mention a maid stay in employer house, subjected to food they give her, environment and working hour, how can the employer not liable??

[Darryn]

  On 1/19/2015 at 4:15 AM, Jman888 said:

 

 

this statement very inhumane leh, we as employee dun even stay in our boss house also get medical coverage, not to mention a maid stay in employer house, subjected to food they give her, environment and working hour, how can the employer not liable??

Frankly ---

 

It's a basic question of human rights - the maid is not our dependent, she is responsible for her own actions.

Unless of course the illness can be directly traced to her employment (i.e workman's comp)

We can be required to buy health insurance, but should not be "responsible" for her health

[Baal]

  On 1/19/2015 at 4:11 AM, L23 said:

 

Bro, you just pointed out the essence of this law 'protecting' the maid.

 

Something to add on, I do heard of cases where the maid fail sick (real sick, one even gotten cancer), the employer is liable for all the medical fee.

How on earth gonna do with the employers sia?

 

When the hospital are short of bed, the govt tell us to stay healthy so that we will pay high medical fee and take up their bed.

Can the employer in turn tell the maid to stay healthy by doing bleh bleh bleh.......?

 

So employer, you better pray hard your maid don't fall sick when she is under your employment

 

Thanks for the heads up. Btw, reg the $5k deposit against pregnancy, izit to ensure that the employer sponsor the abortion or any other assc fees OR the minute preg, employer loses the $5k - Period ? Other fees will be add ons?

[Alpha78]

  On 1/19/2015 at 3:07 AM, Darryn said:

I'm agreeing with what you're saying.

That's why the whole system sucks.

 

It's set up to encourage / reward us for treating maids "poorly". I'm more liberal than most here - I accept that.

 

The whole problem is that the rules, as they are written are rather draconian. Singaporeans are decried for treating maids poorly, and for being bad employers - which sucks and is our collective shame.

 

At the same time, people are largely a product of their environments - what "environment" does the current legislative regime provide for us as employers?

 

Eh Kiwi, meddling in local politics again? Remember, persona non-grata...

 

Just kidding. In fact I also agree the bloody system sucks.

[Kusje]

  On 1/19/2015 at 4:15 AM, Jman888 said:

 

 

this statement very inhumane leh, we as employee dun even stay in our boss house also get medical coverage, not to mention a maid stay in employer house, subjected to food they give her, environment and working hour, how can the employer not liable??

 

It's one thing to say she deserves medical coverage and another to say that the employer is liable for ALL her medical bills. I don't know about your company but most companies will buy an insurance plan for the employee and that is the extent of their liability (assuming the illness or injury has no relation to your job).

 

Consider the following scenarios :

 

1. Maid comes to Singapore and works for you. 1 month later, she is found to have cancer and needs treatment that would cost about 200k. Fair or not fair to expect you to pay?

 

2. Maid comes to Singapore and works for you. She is a chain smoker and according to the humane treatment being proposed by some, we should not control the maid's personal life. She subsequently develops lung cancer 3 years later and you are expected to pay 200k for her treatment. Fair or nor fair?

 

3. Maid goes on her off day and decides to go rock climbing. She is negligent and falls down breaking her legs. She is now unable to work and requires surgery costing 30k which you are expected to pay for even though it occurred on her off day. Fair or not fair?

 

I'd say that having an unlimited liability for the employer is unfair because they have very little say over such costs despite the maid living in their house and eating their food. Instead, the present min 15k insurance coverage is too low and should be raised to at least 50k which will cover almost all non-serious illnesses. If there is a serious illness that develops, then tough luck to the maid. She is in no worse shape than millions of others who develop the same illness in her home country.

[Jman888]

  On 1/19/2015 at 4:31 AM, Kusje said:

 

It's one thing to say she deserves medical coverage and another to say that the employer is liable for ALL her medical bills. I don't know about your company but most companies will buy an insurance plan for the employee and that is the extent of their liability (assuming the illness or injury has no relation to your job).

 

Consider the following scenarios :

 

1. Maid comes to Singapore and works for you. 1 month later, she is found to have cancer and needs treatment that would cost about 200k. Fair or not fair to expect you to pay?

 

2. Maid comes to Singapore and works for you. She is a chain smoker and according to the humane treatment being proposed by some, we should not control the maid's personal life. She subsequently develops lung cancer 3 years later and you are expected to pay 200k for her treatment. Fair or nor fair?

 

3. Maid goes on her off day and decides to go rock climbing. She is negligent and falls down breaking her legs. She is now unable to work and requires surgery costing 30k which you are expected to pay for even though it occurred on her off day. Fair or not fair?

 

I'd say that having an unlimited liability for the employer is unfair because they have very little say over such costs despite the maid living in their house and eating their food. Instead, the present min 15k insurance coverage is too low and should be raised to at least 50k which will cover almost all non-serious illnesses. If there is a serious illness that develops, then tough luck to the maid. She is in no worse shape than millions of others who develop the same illness in her home country.

 

 

if the maid is having the same contract that we have with our employer (workman comp, H&S insurance), it is quite clear that what is and what is not covered.

 

If we are entitle to $500 medical fee a year, the employer should pay for the usual consultant and medicine at GP.

 

sorry I am not referring to pre-medical condition before she was hired.

[Neutrino]

  On 1/19/2015 at 3:52 AM, Roadrunner2029 said:

You don't agree they are underpaid ? Problem is the levy should be given to the FDW.

 

 

 

Personally I don't think maids are underpaid.

The 3 maids we've had to look after mil have all been taught how to respect and save money by my missus.

 

They've all bought land and had houses built back in Indon. Put brothers through education and paid for brothers to find work overseas without ever expecting to be repaid for that.

 

Very difficult to find good maid though and my missus takes time and effort over it but worth it in end for both of us, MIL and the maid.

 

Not saying we haven't had issues or difficulties, though.

 

I also concerned that the hiring system isn't transparent neither Sing nor Indon government have control over it and that maids are taken advantage of.

If not how come every Tom, Dick or Harry opens agency here in Singapore with little or no control over what the standard of maid supplied is.

 

My missus has had to educate maids on cooking, cleaning and markrting and especially on the value of money which most have never handles back in Indon and have no idea of the value.

 

It's a flawed system.

[Beehive3783]

I have a 2 year old now, and I don't even dare to think of having another one.

 

No time and no money for the second.

 

 

  On 1/19/2015 at 1:49 AM, Achtung said:

Talk is easy.

 

I have no fugging choice as my mum is old liao and cannot handle my 3 kids. Hence the maid is to help her.

 

The government asks, why people dun want kids. Look around, this is a classic eg, Milk prices keep going up like nobody's business. Seeing PD aint cheap. Childcare no space and very expensive. Pay no increase. With age, it gets lower. Hit the ground, they will understand. They can take their fugging baby bonus and shaft it up their fat asses.

 

 

 

 

[Kusje]

  On 1/19/2015 at 4:34 AM, Jman888 said:

 

 

if the maid is having the same contract that we have with our employer (workman comp, H&S insurance), it is quite clear that what is and what is not covered.

 

If we are entitle to $500 medical fee a year, the employer should pay for the usual consultant and medicine at GP.

 

sorry I am not referring to pre-medical condition before she was hired.

 

I agree that they should be entitled to the same type of medical benefits we get from our employers but the current law says that employers are liable for much more.

 

This is what MOM says about the matter.

 

 

  Quote

Q1 What are the medical obligations of employers of Foreign Domestic

Workers under Singapore law?

A1 Under the Employment of Foreign Manpower (Work Passes) Regulations,

employers are responsible for the costs of providing medical treatment (both

inpatient and outpatient) for their Foreign Domestic Workers (FDWs),

regardless of whether the conditions are work-related. Employers are

required to:

(i) Purchase mandatory medical insurance of at least $15,000 per year.

This provides basic cover for hospitalisation expenses;

(ii) Purchase mandatory Personal Accident Insurance (PAI) with

minimum sum assured of $40,000, with compensation payable to the

FDW or her beneficiaries; and

(iii) Bear the cost of medical expenses in excess of or not covered by

medical insurance or PAI.

 

Q10 What penalty will employers of Foreign Domestic Workers face if they

fail to fulfil their medical obligations?

A10 Failure to provide or bear the cost of their Foreign Domestic Workers

medical treatment is an offence under the Employment of Foreign Manpower

(Work Passes) Regulations. If convicted, offenders are liable to a fine of up

to $10,000 and/or a jail term of up to 12 months.

 

Q11 If my Foreign Domestic Worker falls ill or gets injured on her weekly

rest day, am I obligated to provide and bear the cost of medical

treatment?

A11 Yes, you are still liable for the costs of providing immediately necessary

medical treatment for illness or injury received by your FDW, even if the

illness or injury occurred on her rest day.

 

With regards to the fellow saying that the employer is liable to pay for cancer treatment, I'm afraid that is not true.

 

  Quote

 

Q14 If my Foreign Domestic Worker requires long-term medical care, am I

obligated to provide and bear the cost of the whole course of

treatment?

A14 Employers may send the Foreign Domestic Worker (FDW) home to continue

treatment at the worker’s own expense once the worker’s condition has

stabilised and the FDW is deemed medically fit to travel. Employers are

responsible for providing and bearing the cost of repatriation.

http://www.mom.gov.sg/Documents/services-forms/passes/Employer_Medical_Obligations_-_FDW.pdf

 

Edited January 19, 2015 by Kusje

[Baal]

holy........no wonder so much resistance against giving them rest day. I need to educate my wife liao.

Whenever i kpkb, she will tell me she dun care what she does outside as long as he does her duties at home. This mindset defn not applicable liao.

[Ingenius]

  On 1/19/2015 at 3:52 AM, Roadrunner2029 said:

You don't agree they are underpaid ? Problem is the levy should be given to the FDW.

 

 

Not really. Because FDW dont need to pay for accommodation, food, medical expense, basic necessities and whatever. Add these expenses in it easily exceed a thousand. When my maid came I even bought her a smart phone for her to call home , and monthly prepaid card i offer out of goodwill to buy for her also (because i think family members is most important). Compare to other foreigners who work her, they have to bear the cost themselves.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Ingenius

[Achtung]

Good move on ur part.....

 

 

  On 1/19/2015 at 4:42 AM, Beehive3783 said:

I have a 2 year old now, and I don't even dare to think of having another one.

 

No time and no money for the second.

 

 

 

 

[Kusje]

  On 1/19/2015 at 3:52 AM, Roadrunner2029 said:

You don't agree they are underpaid ? Problem is the levy should be given to the FDW.

 

 

 

Underpaid compared to locals? Yes.

 

Underpaid compared to their compatriots at home? No. If they were under paid compared to their compatriots then they would rather stay at home and not be here in the first place.