My Take on COE System and transferable issues

[Jamessoh]

dear all,

 

was just thinking: since coe is used to control the car population, why can't it be transferrable, since in effect the number of coe remains the same?

 

that could be useful especially when the low coe bought in 2009 can be transferred to a new car now. that would not lead to a change in car number, since when the coe is transferred to the new car, the old car has to be scrapped.

 

any thoughts?

 

 

[Watwheels]

Becoz ah gong say so. What's there to think when you are not given a choice? I rather spend that time looking at pretty SYTs.

[Liping24cn]

Then it will become exactly like money or shares.

It will lead to more speculations!

The current rule is correct.

[macrosszero]

Then someone will whine about how much of a waste it is to have to scrap a 2 year old car that has an eight year old COE...... whine and whine and ask for COE extension based on the old (cheap) rate and not the prevailing COE rates......

[Vblaster_w211]

http://​www.channelnewsasia.com/​stories/singaporelocalnews/​view/1219947/1/.html

 

It's not about the principle of the quota system. It is the way it is implemented that by promotes sky high prices.

 

Some simple steps that can be implemented into the system whilst still maintaining the principle of supply and demand:

 

1. Disallow bidding for another party. No dealers allowed.

 

2. Each person has to bid for his COE in cash. Not hide the costs of COE into the pricing of the car and long term 100% 10 years loan.

 

3. If the bid is successful, the person pays for the amount he bidded for. So if you put in a bid for $50K and is successful, the $50K is your price. Similarly in the same bidding exercise, if the last person successful bidded $10K, he will only pay $10K.

 

Just implement these simple measures, and the prices of COE will stabilise to realistic amounts, while still maintaining supply and demand principles. And since COE quota is the one controlling measure for the number of cars on the road, it does not matter what price it is transacted. By virtue of it being a quota system, the system has achieved its primary outcome - that of controlling car population.

 

Unless, of course, the COE system is a way of maximising revenue for LTA. The current bidding system simply encourages higher and higher bids as:

 

1. All successful bids pay the lowest bids. So human nature will put in a higher bid in the hope to INCREASE the chance of success, whilst hoping the lowest successful bid will be lower so that the actual price paid will be less.

 

2. Thinking we have more disposal income by hiding the price of COE into long term 10 yr 100% car loans. Make the COE payment in cash up front and not through loans.

 

Instead, right now, car buyers are subject to manipulations by the dealers to bid higher and higher, and they are blinded by the true economic ramifications of the COE by long term 100% loans.

[Elmo]

Think gov didn't want a secondary market of people trading COEs or sth like that. Think discussed b4.

[Wt_know]

your suggestions have been debated until the cows come home offline (kopitiam) and online (internet, tv & radio)

ah gong says your suggestions no good. period.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Wt_know

[Vblaster_w211]

They just refuse to consider options that are based on sound economic principles. In fact, they have never discussed why the suggestions are not considered for implementation. Only keep repeating their method is sound.

 

This is sad state of affairs.

[Kar_lover]

dear all,

 

was just thinking: since coe is used to control the car population, why can't it be transferrable, since in effect the number of coe remains the same?

 

that could be useful especially when the low coe bought in 2009 can be transferred to a new car now. that would not lead to a change in car number, since when the coe is transferred to the new car, the old car has to be scrapped.

 

any thoughts?

 

Just for your info, COE is not tagged to car number in the first place.

 

Your suggestion will definitely reduce the number of COEs every month. This is because under the current system, a very large proportion of new COEs come from those who had scrapped their cars (along with their COEs). With your suggestion, ppl will only scrap their car and keep their (cheap) COE for a new car. The COE will only turnover after the whole 10years have expired, i.e. it will have the effect of every single car owner keeping their cars to the 10th year. So the new COEs in the market will depend more on the 1.0% growth which will one day not so far in the future be 0% (or even negative!!). This will then cause the COE levels for the paltry few COEs to shoot to the moon and beyond. And since the scrapped car will NOT enter the used market, the used market supply will also dry up eventually.

 

All this means new cannot buy (no COE), used also cannot buy (no more used cars as all have been expoerted), then how?

Edited August 14, 2012 by Kar_lover

[Kar_lover]

Think gov didn't want a secondary market of people trading COEs or sth like that. Think discussed b4.

 

TS didn't say transfer to another person, he said transfer to a new car, meaning my old $20k COE from 2009 transfer to my new car which i buy without COE and just attach my COE to it.

[987]

first criteria for the system to work - to generate as much money as possible for the garment

 

if that's not met, it will not be implemented...

 

back to the drawing board...

 

 

[Wt_know]

alamak ... you don't know? MARKET PRICING !!!! in spore everything is about market pricing (errr means generate the most cash out of the situation)

 

for example:

old car coe = $30k

new car coe = $90k

 

if you transfer old car coe $30k to a new car, you are not paying the same coe price as a new owner who buy new car (same car) with $90k coe.

then, these 2 new car got a very disparate pricing. not i say one ... car dealer say one. lolz

 

coe goes with the car. if transferrable, a lot of "creative" solution will come out like transfer cheap coe to new car. buy new car then chop chop resell new car in the market for speculation.

then even less than 6 months old car also transfer coe liao ... which is $70k ($20K cheaper) ... too many administrative works

 

dear all,

 

was just thinking: since coe is used to control the car population, why can't it be transferrable, since in effect the number of coe remains the same?

 

that could be useful especially when the low coe bought in 2009 can be transferred to a new car now. that would not lead to a change in car number, since when the coe is transferred to the new car, the old car has to be scrapped.

 

any thoughts?

Edited August 14, 2012 by Wt_know

[Deckbuild]

Suddenly pop up so many COE thread again...

[inlinesix]

As i said countless time, scrap it. It is useless now since ppl here are so rich.

 

Instead, built ERP on every single major road.

[Elmo]

TS didn't say transfer to another person, he said transfer to a new car, meaning my old $20k COE from 2009 transfer to my new car which i buy without COE and just attach my COE to it.

 

Oh sorry my bad. Anyway, that will be good for people who wants to chg car often. Good for new car dealers too. The only problem will be to find someone who has a COE to take your car. Else you can't sell right? Dealers will need to have "unattached" COE to take over your car while waiting for buyers?...

[Gaolow]

"2. Each person has to bid for his COE in cash. Not hide the costs of COE into the pricing of the car and long term 100% 10 years loan.

 

3. If the bid is successful, the person pays for the amount he bidded for. So if you put in a bid for $50K and is successful, the $50K is your price. Similarly in the same bidding exercise, if the last person successful bidded $10K, he will only pay $10K.

 

Just implement these simple measures, and the prices of COE will stabilise to realistic amounts, while still maintaining supply and demand principles. And since COE quota is the one controlling measure for the number of cars on the road, it does not matter what price it is transacted. By virtue of it being a quota system, the system has achieved its primary outcome - that of controlling car population."

 

sorry to say..but the above will not cause the price of COE to be lower/stable/realistic(how you define them in the first place..at what amount?)..but in fact might be higher as now the rich have the power to control and play with the price..just look at property..

as long is bidding game..those can afford the money will win the game..is simple..

 

my question why COE only for 10 years..why not for as long as the car can last of 20 years?

 

 

 

[Kar_lover]

Oh sorry my bad. Anyway, that will be good for people who wants to chg car often. Good for new car dealers too. The only problem will be to find someone who has a COE to take your car. Else you can't sell right? Dealers will need to have "unattached" COE to take over your car while waiting for buyers?...

 

That would be hard to do - finding one person with an available COE to take over your (used) car so that you can buy a new car. For that person to have an available COE to attached to your car, he would have to find yet ANOTHER person who has an available COE to take over his (used) car and that person also has to find another person to take over his car and it goes on and on ad infinitum. Which is why the TS got it right when he specified (1) COE remains with the orginal owner but allowed to be trasfered to a new car (not new person) and (2) that the old car will be scrapped (i.e. exported).

 

Which is wat led to my comment that it will kill the numbers of new COE (since everyone will keep their COEs until the 10th year) and kill the used car market (cos all used cars will be exported).

Edited August 14, 2012 by Kar_lover

[Elmo]

That would be hard to do - finding one person with an available COE to take over your (used) car so that you can buy a new car. For that person to have an available COE to attached to your car, he would have to find yet ANOTHER person who has an available COE to take over his (used) car and that person also has to find another person to take over his car and it goes on and on ad infinitum. Which is why the TS got it right when he specified (1) COE remains with the orginal owner but allowed to be trasfered to a new car (not new person) and the old car will be scrapped (i.e. exported).

 

Which is wat led to my comment that it will kill the numbers of new COE (since everyone will keep their COEs until the 10th year) and kill the used car market (cos all used cars will be exported).

 

I personally will like that just that it is a waste of resources if cars get scrapped/exported too early.

Also I think the COE bidding will be more fierce since its use is more flexible.