Electric cars

[therock]

On 9/21/2024 at 3:51 PM, Voodooman said:

There is no evidence that new generation of EV battery will die at 8 years mark. Based on Tesla experience, it can easily last 600,000 - 700,000 km and still have close to 80% capacity. 

The new CATL batteries (don’t think BYD is behind CATL in battery technology) comes with warranty of 15 years and 1,600,000km, so this battery life issue is moot in SG with our 10 years COE.  At end of 10 years, PARF is a few thousands for EV anyway, if renew COE, just pay QP and if battery fails, you take back pro rata portion of unused COE, very little risk.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/catl-warrants-its-new-ev-battery-to-last-for-a-million-miles-or-15-years/

I think I shall wait with abated breath on what happens to the first wave of EVs as their reach the latter half of their COE lives in SG... 

Who knows, I may get one before that, but I'll like something that has a warranty equal to the duration of the COE..

[Voodooman]

On 9/21/2024 at 5:35 PM, therock said:

I think I shall wait with abated breath on what happens to the first wave of EVs as their reach the latter half of their COE lives in SG... 

Who knows, I may get one before that, but I'll like something that has a warranty equal to the duration of the COE..

Maybe next year, the 10 years battery warranty will be here. 

[Rskc]

On 9/21/2024 at 12:43 PM, therock said:

Again like the previous post, the most important is the depreciation and the maths of ownership...

Bear in mind that no one knows the value of a 8 year old EV with a dead battery right now... so that depreciation curve is largely speculative..

 

The batt technology has improved leaps and bounds in recent years. It is no longer at the bmw i3/i8 era. And replacement of batt is now modular, no longer the whole slab of batt, no longer that prohibitive in costs. For e.g., I last asked abt MG's cost of 1 batt module, it is 1k+. The whole batt is 6 modules. Even if one changes the whole batt, add to the car price, it is still cheaper than equivalent ICE.

[inlinesix]

On 9/21/2024 at 4:27 PM, Hamburger said:

What good would it do for the most advanced EV when the charging capabilities at the source is still in dinosaurs era. Be it 7W or 11W AC.

 

The infrastructure is still lacking. 

What would be the typical charging speed at HDB??

Your comment typical of someone who has never use EV or use it during holiday.

In Singapore, 7kw AC is enough is most circumstances.

It is rare to find anything faster for AC.

For DC, it is ez to find 50kw. We have up to 150kw.

 

[inlinesix]

On 9/21/2024 at 5:42 PM, Rskc said:

The batt technology has improved leaps and bounds in recent years. It is no longer at the bmw i3/i8 era. And replacement of batt is now modular, no longer the whole slab of batt, no longer that prohibitive in costs. For e.g., I last asked abt MG's cost of 1 batt module, it is 1k+. The whole batt is 6 modules. Even if one changes the whole batt, add to the car price, it is still cheaper than equivalent ICE.

Currently, battery degradation > 20% could be from 250k km to 400k km.

I wonder how many private owners has that kind of mileage 

[Rskc]

On 9/21/2024 at 6:20 PM, inlinesix said:

Currently, battery degradation > 20% could be from 250k km to 400k km.

I wonder how many private owners has that kind of mileage 

Yeah, this will be an added bonus, on top of possibility of changing battery by modules. 

[Volvobrick]

On 9/21/2024 at 3:51 PM, Voodooman said:

There is no evidence that new generation of EV battery will die at 8 years mark. Based on Tesla experience, it can easily last 600,000 - 700,000 km and still have close to 80% capacity. 

The new CATL batteries (don’t think BYD is behind CATL in battery technology) comes with warranty of 15 years and 1,600,000km, so this battery life issue is moot in SG with our 10 years COE.  At end of 10 years, PARF is a few thousands for EV anyway, if renew COE, just pay QP and if battery fails, you take back pro rata portion of unused COE, very little risk.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/catl-warrants-its-new-ev-battery-to-last-for-a-million-miles-or-15-years/

Gahmen reading your post. They sure will up road tax surcharge for COE EVs by 100% or more to recover the lost ARF.... 

[epigram]

On 9/21/2024 at 6:18 PM, inlinesix said:

anything faster for AC.

SP has a network of AC43 chargers but i guess it depends on where a person normally charges.

[Rskc]

On 9/21/2024 at 5:42 PM, Voodooman said:

Maybe next year, the 10 years battery warranty will be here. 

https://www.mgcars.com/en/NewsActivities/Detail/MG-Lifetime-Battery-Warranty#:~:text=The lifetime warranty covers 4,seat electric convertible sport roadster.

It is already happening in Thailand for MG. Lifetime warranty. Let's hope it extends to SG MG and all other brands will be pressured to extend the warranty. 😆

For MG to offer this in Thailand, it gives the confidence in the CATL batteries.

Edited September 21, 2024 by Rskc

[Tianmo]

On 9/21/2024 at 5:35 PM, therock said:

I think I shall wait with abated breath on what happens to the first wave of EVs as their reach the latter half of their COE lives in SG... 

Who knows, I may get one before that, but I'll like something that has a warranty equal to the duration of the COE..

EV battery technology has advance so much, those you mentioned are already obsoleted. At this rate, even the current EVs will be obsoleted in 2-3 yrs, so looking at those data is as good as looking at lagging indicators.

 

[therock]

Maybe I'm just an ignorant non EV owner, so I'll keep my options open and I look forward to the future

However proper buttons, analogue dials and simplicity appeal to me as I get older... 
When I sat in my friend's Tesla and Ioniq, it felt like a PC on wheels and the door handles aren't really my taste, so let's see what the future brings..

[inlinesix]

On 9/21/2024 at 8:19 PM, epigram said:

SP has a network of AC43 chargers but i guess it depends on where a person normally charges.

Thanks.

Looks like SP upgraded chargers near my estate to AC43

[Heartlander]

On 9/21/2024 at 4:27 PM, Hamburger said:

What good would it do for the most advanced EV when the charging capabilities at the source is still in dinosaurs era. Be it 7W or 11W AC.

 

The infrastructure is still lacking. 

What would be the typical charging speed at HDB??

 

 

 

 

For HDB charging infra, you would not expect the car owners to shift their cars away after fully charged up, most would just leave it in the parking lot overnight. So if you provide faster charging options, most likely would be wasted as no one else would be able to use anyway for the night. This is in contrast to commercial charging facility where there would be staff to monitor or in high traffic movement areas where people feel compelled to do so. Or if the penalty in place for not moving is heavy. It depends on the objectives lah.

[Voodooman]

On 9/21/2024 at 6:18 PM, inlinesix said:

Your comment typical of someone who has never use EV or use it during holiday.

In Singapore, 7kw AC is enough is most circumstances.

It is rare to find anything faster for AC.

For DC, it is ez to find 50kw. We have up to 150kw.

 

Yup, 5-8 hours slow AC charging while I am at work or at home needs to be the base case for me.  Occasional 20-30 mins DC fast charge on road trip or due to cock up is tolerable maybe. 

Some are fixated with battery health, some on charging speed, others on range anxiety but we are all living in the same tiny Singapore with the same infrastructure.  It has worked for some but apparently not enough to convince others.  Why har? 

Edited September 21, 2024 by Voodooman

[epigram]

On 9/21/2024 at 9:14 PM, Voodooman said:

 It has worked for some but apparently not enough to convince others

No one size fit all. At one point, diesel was supposed to take over the world due to superior range, torque and cost. But that tech didn't get much traction. There was also that failed CNG experiment.

[inlinesix]

On 9/21/2024 at 9:14 PM, Voodooman said:

Yup, 5-8 hours slow AC charging while I am at work or at home needs to be the base case for me.  Occasional 20-30 mins DC fast charge on road trip or due to cock up is tolerable maybe. 

Some are fixated with battery health, some on charging speed, others on range anxiety but we are all living in the same tiny Singapore with the same infrastructure.  It has worked for some but apparently not enough to convince others.  Why har? 

No need to convince.

In the end, everyone has to adopt EV.

p.s. By having charging station in my estate, it is a plus point to think about the switch 

Edited September 21, 2024 by inlinesix

[inlinesix]

On 9/21/2024 at 9:19 PM, epigram said:

No one size fit all. At one point, diesel was supposed to take over the world due to superior range, torque and cost. But that tech didn't get much traction. There was also that failed CNG experiment.

Diesel doesn’t work in Sg with ever tightening of emissions.

I use diesel pickup in Msia and loving it.

[epigram]

On 9/21/2024 at 9:22 PM, inlinesix said:

Msia

They have low enough population density not to poison too many and large enough spaces for infinite dilution of the diesel particulate to accept Euro 4.