Electric cars

[Lethalstrike]

On 3/8/2024 at 12:47 PM, inlinesix said:

Lavender/Kallang areas have many chargers.  I guess it is more of a commercial push.

Yes I do see more and more chargers as well. I'm staying near St Michael's area just off Upper Serangoon. 

I don't use them though, as I charge using the AC chargers in my office building's carpark. 😆

[Tianmo]

On 3/8/2024 at 11:35 AM, Beregond said:

Sian. My place jurong west there  still dun want build charger 

🤮

The older 4 head 5 head JW side? 

Those I think is because of the open air carparks maybe. But I think sld be coming since they installed some ard the JE open air carparks already.

 

 

[Tianmo]

On 3/8/2024 at 11:47 AM, Lethalstrike said:

Have liao brother. 

Check out the Mercedes GLC300e PHEV on sale now, with DC fast charging port and 138km EV range on paper.

Contact your friendly Mercedes sales consultant to find out more! 😁

Cannot afford lah, out of my reach. 

I drive cheap cars one. 

When the MIC ones ready, I go.

 

[Tianmo]

On 3/8/2024 at 12:54 PM, Lethalstrike said:

Yes I do see more and more chargers as well. I'm staying near St Michael's area just off Upper Serangoon. 

I don't use them though, as I charge using the AC chargers in my office building's carpark. 😆

Politically the chargers will be build.  We have to show China da ge that we are friend friend, and of course the EVs and PHEV needs the chargers. Petrol stations will stay for the HEVs, so the others will be happy. 

You happy, he happy, I happy, everybody happy.

 

[Jtis]

Actually, the steady state solution in my personal opinion is not setting up more and more dedicated EV charging lots for EV drivers. But a lot more cheaper, lower powered AC charging stations, like 7.4kW/11kW, positioned all around the carpark, serving regular parking lots, with load sharing enabled and each equipped with multiple long charging cables per AC charging station. 

The mental model must change to allow charging wherever you choose to park. Making a conscious decision to charge is a mental model that is carried forward from petrol station thinking. That doesnt have to be the case. The technology exist today for EV charging load sharing, one AC station mounted on a pillar, can easily cover 6-12 carpark lots (4 typical blocks of 3 lots with pillar in middle).  Maybe just 3-4 cars out of the whole lot want to charge? No problem, settled by that one charger. It is slower no doubt because of load sharing, but it is still charging.  

It should cover regular parking lots, don't purposely pit ev drivers against other drivers for setting aside ev charging lots. Load sharing model partially addresses the issue of hogging ev lots since these are regular carpark lots, and this addressses the practical reality of ppl not being available to move the car immediately.

There are issues to work through though, like cost of cabling, higher than clustering everything together. But pervasiveness of slow charging availability is key. Some countries I read even tap on street lamps for charging infrastructure to make it pervasive.

[Lala81]

On 3/8/2024 at 11:19 AM, inlinesix said:

I think Toyota is very close to that now.

But it is not sold outside US of A.

Yup. Prius Prime. Rav 4 Prime. 

Think they can't build enough. 

[RadX]

On 3/8/2024 at 1:13 PM, Jtis said:

Actually, the steady state solution in my personal opinion is not setting up more and more dedicated EV charging lots for EV drivers. But a lot more cheaper, lower powered AC charging stations, like 7.4kW/11kW, positioned all around the carpark, serving regular parking lots, with load sharing enabled and each equipped with multiple long charging cables per AC charging station. 

The mental model must change to allow charging wherever you choose to park. Making a conscious decision to charge is a mental model that is carried forward from petrol station thinking. That doesnt have to be the case. The technology exist today for EV charging load sharing, one AC station mounted on a pillar, can easily cover 6-12 carpark lots (4 typical blocks of 3 lots with pillar in middle).  Maybe just 3-4 cars out of the whole lot want to charge? No problem, settled by that one charger. It is slower no doubt because of load sharing, but it is still charging.  

It should cover regular parking lots, don't purposely pit ev drivers against other drivers for setting aside ev charging lots. Load sharing model partially addresses the issue of hogging ev lots since these are regular carpark lots, and this addressses the practical reality of ppl not being available to move the car immediately.

There are issues to work through though, like cost of cabling, higher than clustering everything together. But pervasiveness of slow charging availability is key. Some countries I read even tap on street lamps for charging infrastructure to make it pervasive.

Exactly what was also

proposed at the recent feedback session for hub destination charging 

[Jtis]

On 3/8/2024 at 1:45 PM, RadX said:

Exactly what was also

proposed at the recent feedback session for hub destination charging 

Again? Don't scare me, so zhun. 😅

Must buy 4d this weekend

[Voodooman]

On 3/8/2024 at 12:06 PM, Lala81 said:

Yes of course. This initial rollout will be more widespread.
Govt also not goondu, they know how to curb some of these tendencies. 

But this type of installation will be only for a short term to blanket the entire singapore with sufficient charging points to start the process going on. It's not logical for it to continue indefinitely like that, cos otherwise the opposite will happen. Build where it is easiest to build to fulfill the quotas. Then inefficiency and bloat happens. For sure, civil servants will be wary of that happening. 

Hard data MUST be the key factor in continued installation once the very basic blanket structures have been built. 
Not that i want to be a naysayer or pessimist. 
Anyway if it all rolls out hunky dory, then credit to those in charge. 

 

These rollouts will be executed by private sector for profit companies, capital will sniff out the profit.  If adoption don't take off after initial batch of chargers are installed, noone will put new money into it.  

But the demand levers are also with G (tax, incentive, ban), so back to G's end plan but it is not difficult to make it work here. Small island with little issue of range anxiety and how long does it take to add ac charging capacity when demand is strong?  

 

[Tianmo]

On 3/8/2024 at 1:45 PM, RadX said:

Exactly what was also

proposed at the recent feedback session for hub destination charging 

And when cuming?

 

[Lala81]

On 3/8/2024 at 1:57 PM, Voodooman said:

These rollouts will be executed by private sector for profit companies, capital will sniff out the profit.  If adoption don't take off after initial batch of chargers are installed, noone will put new money into it.  

But the demand levers are also with G (tax, incentive, ban), so back to G's end plan but it is not difficult to make it work here. Small island with little issue of range anxiety and how long does it take to add ac charging capacity when demand is strong?  

 

Yup. Right now, the utilisation rates are definitely lower, than need to capture the customer base.  So govt gives subsidies and also maybe "moat protection" for HDB carparks, ie not allow multiple charging companies to compete in the same carpark.

I don't think the ROI is fast. if u charge 50-60 cents per kwh. How much does 1 charger give back per month/year. And the capital cost outlay for one DC fast charger is quite significant. 

 

 

Edited March 8 by Lala81

[inlinesix]

On 3/8/2024 at 2:21 PM, Lala81 said:

Yup. Right now, the utilisation rates are definitely lower, than need to capture the customer base.  So govt gives subsidies and also maybe "moat protection" for HDB carparks, ie not allow multiple charging companies to compete in the same carpark.

I don't think the ROI is fast. if u charge 50-60 cents per kwh. How much does 1 charger give back per month/year. And the capital cost outlay for one DC fast charger is quite significant. 

That's why a lot of the charger out there are AC charger.

I think only Shell is DC charger only.

[inlinesix]

On 3/8/2024 at 1:57 PM, Voodooman said:

These rollouts will be executed by private sector for profit companies, capital will sniff out the profit.  If adoption don't take off after initial batch of chargers are installed, noone will put new money into it.  

But the demand levers are also with G (tax, incentive, ban), so back to G's end plan but it is not difficult to make it work here. Small island with little issue of range anxiety and how long does it take to add ac charging capacity when demand is strong?  

I tried using 3 pin plug to charge.  The output is 2kw.

[t0y0ta]

On 3/8/2024 at 2:52 PM, inlinesix said:

I tried using 3 pin plug to charge.  The output is 2kw.

2kW can charge 1+ kWh in 1 hour. So overnight can charge around 10 kWh. Ok for a couple days short drives.

[inlinesix]

On 3/8/2024 at 2:59 PM, t0y0ta said:

2kW can charge 1+ kWh in 1 hour. So overnight can charge around 10 kWh. Ok for a couple days short drives.

Takes 2 work day to increase from 5kwh to 34kwh.

If a lot of traffic lights stop, the range will be much better than advertised.

[Lethalstrike]

On 3/8/2024 at 1:13 PM, Jtis said:

Actually, the steady state solution in my personal opinion is not setting up more and more dedicated EV charging lots for EV drivers. But a lot more cheaper, lower powered AC charging stations, like 7.4kW/11kW, positioned all around the carpark, serving regular parking lots, with load sharing enabled and each equipped with multiple long charging cables per AC charging station. 

The mental model must change to allow charging wherever you choose to park. Making a conscious decision to charge is a mental model that is carried forward from petrol station thinking. That doesnt have to be the case. The technology exist today for EV charging load sharing, one AC station mounted on a pillar, can easily cover 6-12 carpark lots (4 typical blocks of 3 lots with pillar in middle).  Maybe just 3-4 cars out of the whole lot want to charge? No problem, settled by that one charger. It is slower no doubt because of load sharing, but it is still charging.  

It should cover regular parking lots, don't purposely pit ev drivers against other drivers for setting aside ev charging lots. Load sharing model partially addresses the issue of hogging ev lots since these are regular carpark lots, and this addressses the practical reality of ppl not being available to move the car immediately.

There are issues to work through though, like cost of cabling, higher than clustering everything together. But pervasiveness of slow charging availability is key. Some countries I read even tap on street lamps for charging infrastructure to make it pervasive.

I think this is what they have been doing so far.

Putting more slow speed AC chargers in carparks, especially HDB carparks. 

[Tianmo]

On 3/8/2024 at 3:06 PM, inlinesix said:

Takes 2 work day to increase from 5kwh to 34kwh.

If a lot of traffic lights stop, the range will be much better than advertised.

Actually sound like EVs and PHEVs sld take B roads and drive in the 50kmh range.  Leave the expressways to the HEVs. 

 

[Tohto]

On 3/8/2024 at 11:29 AM, Tianmo said:

Personally I think the PRCs will be faster, and cheaper. Watch out for Geely,  Chery and maybe BYD, going to be 2F2F into the PHEV and HEV segment soon.

 

Already release by BYD. But will Singapore bring in?

https://www.carwow.co.uk/byd/news/7474/new-byd-seal-u-plug-in-hybrid-suv-revealed#gref