Electric cars

[RadX]

On 1/23/2024 at 4:07 PM, Rskc said:

Do you really need to bold, underline + cap? I am sure most can read here...

Chill a bit lah. Weather is pretty cool recently.

@Tianmo hope this answers your qn in the prev thread…

 

and dun ask “which qn” before u kanna call this😂

[Tianmo]

On 1/23/2024 at 8:08 PM, RadX said:

@Tianmo hope this answers your qn in the prev thread…

 

and dun ask “which qn” before u kanna call this😂

CB, cannot ask qn one meh? 

Which qn ah?

 

[shuigao]

On 1/23/2024 at 12:22 PM, ccc888 said:

I think extreme hot and cold also affect FC for ICE cars

For ICE -- the range reduction in cold weather is miniscule (relatively), not like EVs that lose 30 or 40%.

[ccc888]

On 1/24/2024 at 5:28 PM, shuigao said:

For ICE -- the range reduction in cold weather is miniscule (relatively), not like EVs that lose 30 or 40%.

Extreme weather, chargers not working as well haha.

 

[inlinesix]

 

[Kklee]

On 1/23/2024 at 12:22 PM, ccc888 said:

I think extreme hot and cold also affect FC for ICE cars

IMHO.
For me,  hot conditions ( e.g. hot weather, tunnel )  have better FC than cold conditions ( e.g.  night driving ).  

[Mkl22]

On 1/23/2024 at 9:23 PM, Tianmo said:

CB, cannot ask qn one meh? 

Which qn ah?

 

What is the point behind the question? 🤣

[Atachi]

The energy transition will falter unless consumers feel more comfortable about buying a used battery-powered vehicle.

Secondhand EVs Are Starting to Look Like a Bargain

The energy transition will falter unless consumers feel more comfortable about buying a used battery-powered vehicle.

You need at least £79,000 ($99,000) to buy a new electric Porsche Taycan in the UK; higher-specification versions of these sporty sedans cost tens of thousands more. However, three-year old Taycans are now available for less than £50,000. A used electric Jaguar iPace SUV – voted World Car of the Year in 2019 — can be yours for under £20,000, and BMW’s boxy i3 electric hatchback is often priced below £10,000 in the second-hand market.1

Cambridgeshire used car dealer Laurie Kempster of Auto Union Trading Co has sold 15 Porsche Taycans in the past six weeks – in some cases to overseas buyers, for less than half what the vehicle cost when new. “We noticed the price of these cars coming down significantly, and so bought a few and they sold straight away. So we’ve kept buying them,” he told me by phone. “There is demand for used EVs once prices become more reasonable.”

Sinking second-hand values are great for potential customers, but they’re painful for early adopters and the car industry: High depreciation dents fleet owner profits and makes new leases more expensive. 

The energy transition will falter unless governments and the automotive industry can get consumers comfortable buying a second-hand EV. More than three-quarters of cars purchased annually in Europe are pre-owned, yet EVs still account for less than 2% of used car sales in large markets like the UK and Germany.

Average advertised prices for second-hand EVs have fallen around 23% in the UK in the past 12 months on a like-for-like basis, according to data compiled by listings site Auto Trader, whereas overall used vehicle asking prices have declined less than 6%. The site now has hundreds of pre-owned Porsche Taycans for sale; other EV models have experienced even worse value declines. 

Used EV Bloodbath

Models from Audi and Tesla saw some of the biggest price declines

Source: AutoTrader

Note: this is a selection of more comprehensive data for January 2024

The automotive industry is no stranger to depreciation – vehicles of all types lose value as soon as you drive them off the dealer lot and typically shed around half of the new price after three years on the road. 

This math was briefly transformed during the pandemic as a hiatus in vehicle production caused used-car values to soar. As prices have begun to normalize, EVs have lost value faster than combustion-engine models. Battery-powered vehicles retain just 38.4% of their initial value on trade-in after 36 months and 60,000 kilometers (37,200 miles), compared to 53.3% of the original value for all fuel-types, according to UK data compiled in January by Autovista24, an affiliate of the automotive pricing group.2

The divergence is expected to continue, as this Auto Trader projection of future residual values shows. 

In some cases, used EVs are now cheaper than their combustion-engine equivalents, even though they may have cost far more when new. This is problem for companies that have lots of EVs on their books: in September UK EV subscription service Onto Holdings fell into administration, blaming its financial difficulties on plunging residual values. Members of the British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association are “almost universally reporting their alarm at the levels of residual-value risk they are carrying, especially with regards to BEVs,” the industry body warned in December. 

A price war in new EVs triggered by Tesla Inc.’s price cuts isn’t helping, but there are other factors at play: Consumers know the next generation of battery-powered vehicles will be better than manufacturers’ initial efforts and aren’t willing to pay up for technology that may soon be old-hat. And customers remain nervous about battery longevity, despite the fact EVs usually come with an eight-year battery warranty and studies have shown cells don’t degrade as rapidly as feared.

Source: AutoTrader Note: Data refer to 3 year-old vehicles

Booming new EV sales may have provided a false sense of underlying consumer demand. Fleets and businesses account for more than three quarters of UK EV sales thanks to generous tax incentives.

“The tax benefit makes even quite fancy EVs financially more attractive than a new middling petrol car,” says Ben Nelmes, chief executive officer at clean-transport think tank New AutoMotive. “The UK government’s strategy was to get corporate fleets to purchase EVs, and then provide a supply of cheaper EVs to the second-hand market. That’s worked very well but public attitudes to used EVs have been influenced by misinformation and are on the skeptical side.”

The danger is there aren’t sufficient buyers once leased corporate vehicles enter the second-hand market, and there’s a mismatch in the type of vehicles available: premium EVs used as company cars might not appeal to private buyers seeking a cheap second-hand model.

A glut of second-hand EVs may worsen as fleets and rental companies such as Hertz Global Holdings Inc. dump EVs due to high depreciation and maintenance costs and as emissions regulations force manufacturers to keep selling new EVs, regardless of the strength of demand. 

Volatile second-hand values have triggered calls for more governments to  prop up the second-hand market — the US and Netherlands are among countries that already subsidize such purchases. 

A more sustainable solution is to alleviate lingering consumer worries. Along with improving charging infrastructure and tackling high insurance and collision repair costs3, accelerating efforts to create a standardized testthat dealerships can perform to certify the health of the battery should be a priority. More detailed information about the charging history would help too as this can affect battery longevity. 

The onus is also on manufacturers to invest in their second-hand EV sales operations, while lessors should promote used EVs to company car users, rather than just new vehicles (as Octopus Electric Vehicles is doing, for example). 

Eventually, the market may pivot and reward EVs with better residual values than the combustion engine models they replace. But in the meantime, a disorderly used EV market could sow distrust and push up the cost of new EV leases (whose price is calculated based on estimated depreciation).

For those prepared to do their homework — and to risk further potential residual value declines — it could be a great moment to pick up a cheap used EV. Indeed, even Porsches are starting to look like a bargain.

Edited February 12 by Atachi

[bsswan]

I had a couple of beers with my tyre guy before CNY closures, we got onto EV tyre market.

He said BMW-EV can get, generally, 25-30k out of a set, but of course are "not cheap" in his words, compared to normal tyres. But, he said, he gets MB after 6-10k needing replacements. Generally millages seem very short.

No amount of ICE non-service costs can compensate needing to spend $3-4k per year on tyres.

[Vratenza]

I waiting for 2nd hand EV ley long prices.....luckily still have 2 years to hold my breath...😁

[RadX]

On 2/13/2024 at 12:40 PM, Vratenza said:

I waiting for 2nd hand EV ley long prices.....luckily still have 2 years to hold my breath...😁

Look for mr tan😂

[Vratenza]

On 2/13/2024 at 12:42 PM, RadX said:

Look for mr tan😂

thought you are Mr Tan Radx?😁

you sell your I4 to your other friend....

I buy a 2nd hand taycan from another stranger...don't want to low ball a friend😁

[mersaylee]

On 2/13/2024 at 12:47 PM, Vratenza said:

thought you are Mr Tan Radx?😁

you sell your I4 to your other friend....

I buy a 2nd hand taycan from another stranger...don't want to low ball a friend😁

It's ok...here often have lowballers lowbola brudders on tbill...😂

[Dannnn]

taycan and etron GT are both a very competent and nice car, but the base model road tax , need a while to get used to it.

[RadX]

this is GOLD!!!

[Lethalstrike]

I thought this is also quite interesting for people interested to know how the best selling EV SUV (Model Y) will hold up in a front overlap head-on crash against an ICE Volvo XC60 SUV which is well-known for its safety ratings. Interestingly, in such a crash, rear row passengers will still sustain heavy injuries even if belted up. 

 

[Lethalstrike]

On 2/14/2024 at 7:15 AM, RadX said:

this is GOLD!!!

Wait for Tesla fanboys to come in refute you gao gao ! 🤣

[Tianmo]

On 2/14/2024 at 11:34 AM, Lethalstrike said:

I thought this is also quite interesting for people interested to know how the best selling EV SUV (Model Y) will hold up in a front overlap head-on crash against an ICE Volvo XC60 SUV which is well-known for its safety ratings. Interestingly, in such a crash, rear row passengers will still sustain heavy injuries even if belted up. 

 

Why not use a  Volvo EV vs a Volvo ICE? 

It's a Volvo after all, and it's going to take a lot to beat one in terms of safety.