Electric cars

[Vratenza]

On 3/9/2024 at 2:44 PM, inlinesix said:

That’s why I say all car must pay Road tax based on hp.

How can A250 and A45s pays the same road tax?

Why must we pay road tax at all?

Does it help control congestion? (you already have ERP)

Does it help control emission? (you already have petrol duties and electrical grid carbon tax built in)

Want to do wealth tax, just out right raise the taxes at point of purchase. Dun come try to squeeze more money using outdated excuses and policies. 

[inlinesix]

On 3/9/2024 at 3:17 PM, Vratenza said:

Why must we pay road tax at all?

Does it help control congestion? (you already have ERP)

Does it help control emission? (you already have petrol duties and electrical grid carbon tax built in)

Want to do wealth tax, just out right raise the taxes at point of purchase. Dun come try to squeeze more money using outdated excuses and policies. 

Road tax is older than other taxes you mentioned.

Since it has been there for ages, no point changing it.

Just squeeze more money out of drivers.

 

[Beregond]

On 3/8/2024 at 8:36 PM, Voodooman said:

Seal single motor - $2,264/yr

Seal Dual Motor = $5,588 /yr

What luxury? What emission?  😂😂😂

 

actually, if u count, my road tax about 2k. mius off 5588. about 3.5k extra road tax.

If a C class basic servicing already about 1k , and say 1 year 1 servicing. 3.5k - 1k , left 2k

say est 1 month pump 2 tank+- est the fuel cost save vs charging. 1 month save 300 sgd?? 1 year save 3-4k petrol??

still wu hua? and consider EV have much less or almost no servicing require?? ( i heard only, )

[Vratenza]

On 3/9/2024 at 4:14 PM, Beregond said:

actually, if u count, my road tax about 2k. mius off 5588. about 3.5k extra road tax.

If a C class basic servicing already about 1k , and say 1 year 1 servicing. 3.5k - 1k , left 2k

say est 1 month pump 2 tank+- est the fuel cost save vs charging. 1 month save 300 sgd?? 1 year save 3-4k petrol??

still wu hua? and consider EV have much less or almost no servicing require?? ( i heard only, )

Your c class servicing cost very off leh.... If buy from AD, 1st 3 yrs more or less fully covered, if out of warranty who bothers to go back AD to be cut carrot? 

EV jiak tyres for breakfast lunch  and dinner one... 

You haven consider the almost zero paper value when u sell. 

In Sg, buy EV is never really 100% about saving money one.. 

[Beregond]

On 3/9/2024 at 4:44 PM, Vratenza said:

Your c class servicing cost very off leh.... If buy from AD, 1st 3 yrs more or less fully covered, if out of warranty who bothers to go back AD to be cut carrot? 

EV jiak tyres for breakfast lunch  and dinner one... 

You haven consider the almost zero paper value when u sell. 

In Sg, buy EV is never really 100% about saving money one.. 

 

I seriously dun know how bad EV wear tyres, but it cannot worst then Eclass or 5 series level or even C class level?? compare to a tesla or seal.

I wont said EV save money , but if the concern is the high road tax , i think end of the day , it will balance off 

[RadX]

On 3/9/2024 at 4:49 PM, Beregond said:

 

I seriously dun know how bad EV wear tyres, but it cannot worst then Eclass or 5 series level or even C class level?? compare to a tesla or seal.

I wont said EV save money , but if the concern is the high road tax , i think end of the day , it will balance off 

I have not commented on the high wear but ppl Need to do their homework

 

granted ev is heavy but look at SUVs like Defender etc… easily 2.5t. So?

 

the reason the wear is there is due to the jack rabbit starts EV owners are used to and the instant torque.. I posted this before but ppl still have this notion that “EV wear faster”

 

it works well for me lo.. cos no competition for chargers

[RadX]

On 3/9/2024 at 4:14 PM, Beregond said:

actually, if u count, my road tax about 2k. mius off 5588. about 3.5k extra road tax.

If a C class basic servicing already about 1k , and say 1 year 1 servicing. 3.5k - 1k , left 2k

say est 1 month pump 2 tank+- est the fuel cost save vs charging. 1 month save 300 sgd?? 1 year save 3-4k petrol??

still wu hua? and consider EV have much less or almost no servicing require?? ( i heard only, )

No servicing … yet for me.. only in nov24

[RadX]

On 3/9/2024 at 4:44 PM, Vratenza said:

Your c class servicing cost very off leh.... If buy from AD, 1st 3 yrs more or less fully covered, if out of warranty who bothers to go back AD to be cut carrot? 

EV jiak tyres for breakfast lunch  and dinner one... 

You haven consider the almost zero paper value when u sell. 

In Sg, buy EV is never really 100% about saving money one.. 

again my post on tyres os due to the “jack rabbit starts” nothing abt weight.. consider Range Rover.. what weight? Easily 2.5t

new “ev tyres” gonna mitigate that. 

[Vratenza]

On 3/9/2024 at 4:49 PM, Beregond said:

 

I seriously dun know how bad EV wear tyres, but it cannot worst then Eclass or 5 series level or even C class level?? compare to a tesla or seal.

I wont said EV save money , but if the concern is the high road tax , i think end of the day , it will balance off 

My prev 2+tonne gs450h already is a testament to how fast a high torque and heavy vehicle wears the tires... 

Dun quote me.. But

EV tires wear down fast, and that’s a pollution problem

Swapping fossil-powered cars for EVs is a win for cutting CO2 emissions, but it may exacerbate particulate pollution from wear and tear on tires.

https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/electric-vehicles/ev-tires-wear-down-fast-and-thats-a-pollution-problem

 

I think need to make my stand clear here. Car ownership in Singapore is not just about road tax or petrol duties. I highlighted the road tax discrepancies of similarly powered Seal Dual Motor and BMW M3 to highlight the road tax differences for 2 sports-oriented cars with close enough performance/fun factor. Again what is the purpose of road tax? 

I belong to the small group of Singkies that prefer not to pay any more tax to ah gong unless absolutely necessary. 

I am just not convinced of EV at least for my use case at this juncture. 

As long as people have the money, they are free to spend them on any cars they want. Just don't make it seem all rosy and spouting unsubstantiated save the earth crap as justification. 

 

 

[Vratenza]

On 3/9/2024 at 4:57 PM, RadX said:

again my post on tyres os due to the “jack rabbit starts” nothing abt weight.. consider Range Rover.. what weight? Easily 2.5t

new “ev tyres” gonna mitigate that. 

https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/electric-vehicle-tires-wear-out/

Where The Rubber Meets The Road For Electric Cars

You might not give your car’s tires a lot of thought unless you get a flat, or you live somewhere you need to swap in snow tires. But as more people in the US make the switch to electric vehicles, some are finding they have to think about their tires more often. Some EV drivers are finding that their tires wear out more rapidly than they had with traditional internal combustion-driven vehicles—in some cases, 20 percent faster.

The problem has multiple causes. Many EVs are heavier than regular cars of a similar size, which puts more load on the tires. When combined with the almost instant torque provided by electric motors, that can lead to leaving rubber on the road—even when a driver isn’t attempting to burn rubber. 

Ryan Pszczolkowski, tire testing program manager at Consumer Reports, joins Diana Plasker to talk about the special engineering that comes into play when the rubber meets the road in an electric car. 

 

 

[RadX]

On 3/9/2024 at 5:40 PM, Vratenza said:

https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/electric-vehicle-tires-wear-out/

Where The Rubber Meets The Road For Electric Cars

You might not give your car’s tires a lot of thought unless you get a flat, or you live somewhere you need to swap in snow tires. But as more people in the US make the switch to electric vehicles, some are finding they have to think about their tires more often. Some EV drivers are finding that their tires wear out more rapidly than they had with traditional internal combustion-driven vehicles—in some cases, 20 percent faster.

The problem has multiple causes. Many EVs are heavier than regular cars of a similar size, which puts more load on the tires. When combined with the almost instant torque provided by electric motors, that can lead to leaving rubber on the road—even when a driver isn’t attempting to burn rubber. 

Ryan Pszczolkowski, tire testing program manager at Consumer Reports, joins Diana Plasker to talk about the special engineering that comes into play when the rubber meets the road in an electric car. 

 

 

exactly my point… it’s” the instant torque and maybe the weight adds to that

The i4 folks are also debating this till cows come home

 

some are on sport mode since collecting car and wear is similar than their ICe counterparts 

anyway we can agree to disagree on this and “one swallow does not a summer make”😂

 

Dun ask who is swallow @Jamesc knows

[RadX]

And yes, I stand corrected on my “save the earth”, that was totally idealist

 

i stick with my narrative “screw Mother Earth!!😅😅😅”

[RadX]

On 3/9/2024 at 5:33 PM, Vratenza said:

My prev 2+tonne gs450h already is a testament to how fast a high torque and heavy vehicle wears the tires... 

Dun quote me.. But

EV tires wear down fast, and that’s a pollution problem

Swapping fossil-powered cars for EVs is a win for cutting CO2 emissions, but it may exacerbate particulate pollution from wear and tear on tires.

https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/electric-vehicles/ev-tires-wear-down-fast-and-thats-a-pollution-problem

 

I think need to make my stand clear here. Car ownership in Singapore is not just about road tax or petrol duties. I highlighted the road tax discrepancies of similarly powered Seal Dual Motor and BMW M3 to highlight the road tax differences for 2 sports-oriented cars with close enough performance/fun factor. Again what is the purpose of road tax? 

I belong to the small group of Singkies that prefer not to pay any more tax to ah gong unless absolutely necessary. 

I am just not convinced of EV at least for my use case at this juncture. 

As long as people have the money, they are free to spend them on any cars they want. Just don't make it seem all rosy and spouting unsubstantiated save the earth crap as justification. 

 

 

All along … and this game now and will more so be for the rich … we poor being priced out… 

[RadX]

Fleet vehicles mentioned the same thing and they posture towards the torque argument and this article too

 

https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/climate-change/article284533695.html

 

so I’m on 20k now, let’s see when I change.

[Vratenza]

On 3/9/2024 at 5:46 PM, RadX said:

exactly my point… it’s” the instant torque and maybe the weight adds to that

The i4 folks are also debating this till cows come home

 

some are on sport mode since collecting car and wear is similar than their ICe counterparts 

anyway we can agree to disagree on this and “one swallow does not a summer make”😂

 

Dun ask who is swallow @Jamesc knows

I remember my secondary school physics... Weight of car is a downward force. This adds to the inertia. Inorder to overcome this higher inertia force, a bigger rotational force (ie. torque) is required. The contact surface between the tire and road surface is where these forces are interacting. 

So, the tarmac wins or the rubber wins.

😆

Anyway, this is me arguing for sake of arguing... 

Does not concern me anyway.. Yet😆

[RadX]

On 3/9/2024 at 6:48 PM, Vratenza said:

I remember my secondary school physics... Weight of car is a downward force. This adds to the inertia. Inorder to overcome this higher inertia force, a bigger rotational force (ie. torque) is required. The contact surface between the tire and road surface is where these forces are interacting. 

So, the tarmac wins or the rubber wins.

😆

Anyway, this is me arguing for sake of arguing... 

Does not concern me anyway.. Yet😆

Eh u go work for eurocars… play science lesson wor😂

 

paging @Sp4wn 

[Lala81]

This argument about EV tyres not going to wear our significantly faster is pretty in substantial. 

An atto 3 is 1800+kg. A normal crossover of that size would be usually 1300-1400+ kg. Top size would be a X1 at around 1500kg. 

A I4 is 2.2 tons. A BMW 4 series is 1.8 tons. That 300+ to 400kg difference is pretty consistent throughout any car with a decent size battery pack. 

Friction is friction. Kinetic energy (influenced by higher mass) will incur more friction. 

Giving credit to Teslas, they do better in this and hence their better efficiency. 1.8+ for the model 3 and around 2 tons for the Y. 

A Seal is 300 to 400kg heavier. But a regular BMW 3 series was just 1.5+ tons, maybe 1.6 if u add in the heaviest engine. 

 

 

Edited March 9 by Lala81

[Kklee]

On 3/9/2024 at 11:10 PM, Lala81 said:

This argument about EV tyres not going to wear our significantly faster is pretty in substantial. 

An atto 3 is 1800+kg. A normal crossover of that size would be usually 1300-1400+ kg. Top size would be a X1 at around 1500kg. 

A I4 is 2.2 tons. A BMW 4 series is 1.8 tons. That 300+ to 400kg difference is pretty consistent throughout any car with a decent size battery pack. 

Friction is friction. Kinetic energy (influenced by higher mass) will incur more friction. 

Giving credit to Teslas, they do better in this and hence their better efficiency. 1.8+ for the model 3 and around 2 tons for the Y. 

A Seal is 300 to 400kg heavier. But a regular BMW 3 series was just 1.5+ tons, maybe 1.6 if u add in the heaviest engine. 

 

 

IMHO.
Hmm... kinetic energy is motion energy.  To overcome friction, needs to apply a force.  When in motion, kinetic energy is always reducing because of friction.
I think the whole thing about wearing faster is because with EV, the cannot become the can.
Vs ice, an EV is heavier and thus needs to overcome more friction which in turn causes more wear - but to the driver, there is not really much difference - just step and go. 
Also,  the tyres are stressed more during turning. 
In additional, because an EV is more powerful,   acceleration is easy which translates to more wear.  Does easy acceleration makes a difference?  Generally no, because electric is cheaper than petrol. 🤣

Not sure if hybrids got such tyres issues despite slightly heavier.   Toyota will prompt the hybrid drivers when they accelerate quickly. 🤣