Electric cars

[Voodooman]

On 3/6/2024 at 1:02 PM, Vratenza said:

let's just take the last 2 years of >100k-150K COE situation when EV sales are in upward trajectory.....in the next 2 years of expected more COE supply (and if ah gong truly control the COE bidding by leasing companies), if COE drops to 30-50K, many of those EVs (low parf) and high COE owners will look to deregister and scrap/export their EVs to cut loss on their depreciation and reenter the car ownership market at a more sane depreciation.

If I am in the mjarket for EV in the next 2 years....why would I buy a pre-owned EV that comes with the high depreciation from the crazy 100-150K COE?

Add on to the fact the China EVs are going to flood the market with more reasonably priced EVs pressuring even Tesla in cutting their prices....why will I buy an aging EV?

No fire sales maybe...but I do not see use case for buying a 2nd hand EV in our local context.

I agree.  Doesn't make sense to buy now with high COE (likely to weaken with G talking down the market) and falling prices of new EV.  Will wait, hope your $30-50k COE will materialize. 😃

Hopefully by then, BYD will cut more throats and force other players to drop prices.

Edited March 6, 2024 by Voodooman

[Voodooman]

On 3/6/2024 at 12:38 PM, inlinesix said:

In Sg, Battery degradation is least of a worry.

Need to clock 250k km.

At this mileage, it is difficult to sell to used car dealers.

The biggest problem is insurance claims.

It can easily trigger a total loss claims

Yes, battery degradation is not even claimable but not much a risk for our type of mileage and distance from east to west with EV range crossing 500km.

Accident and repair is biggest risk.  Insurance premium has to go up if industry can't find a solution to battery replacement by module at a reasonable price.

[Lethalstrike]

On 3/6/2024 at 2:00 PM, Voodooman said:

Yes, battery degradation is not even claimable but not much a risk for our type of mileage and distance from east to west with EV range crossing 500km.

Accident and repair is biggest risk.  Insurance premium has to go up if industry can't find a solution to battery replacement by module at a reasonable price.

Actually battery degradation can claim warranty. Usually warranty says if SoH falls below 70%, can claim warranty. 😁

But it would take a lot a lot of abuse for the average user to degrade more than 30% of the battery from brand new. 

[Lala81]

What did I say... 

For the average non landed Joe. Car serves the owner. Or owner serve the car. 

Just pump petrol once every 3-4 weeks using a hybrid lah. 

 

Edited March 6, 2024 by Lala81

[Icebird]

Hi, 

Can i check how Hybrid cars (not Plug-in) work please? It seems like they can run a certain distance eg 60 km, without using petrol. Will the car battery recharge itself only when the petrol is used? So only after i exceed this first 60 km of battery power? 

[Lethalstrike]

On 3/6/2024 at 6:35 PM, Icebird said:

Hi, 

Can i check how Hybrid cars (not Plug-in) work please? It seems like they can run a certain distance eg 60 km, without using petrol. Will the car battery recharge itself only when the petrol is used? So only after i exceed this first 60 km of battery power? 

I think you are referring to full hybrids such as those from Toyota, KIA etc. These do not need to plug in to charge as while you are braking, the car will convert the energy otherwise lost during braking to charge the battery. This process is known as regenerative braking. However, full hybrids are not able to sustain pure electric mode over long distances or higher speeds. The car will typically run on electric at low speeds, during the acceleration phase over short distances before petrol engine automatically takes over. 

In short, the battery is constantly charging and discharging itself as you accelerate and brake. 

Only plug-in has the bigger battery and more powerful electric motor to do more than 50km or more by electric only. And usually, they can also maintain higher speeds greater than 100km/h in pure electric mode..

Edited March 6, 2024 by Lethalstrike

[Theoldjaffa]

 

[Theoldjaffa]

No wonder Toyota dun wanna focus on EV cos they suck range 🫣

[Kklee]

On 3/6/2024 at 6:35 PM, Icebird said:

Hi, 

Can i check how Hybrid cars (not Plug-in) work please? It seems like they can run a certain distance eg 60 km, without using petrol. Will the car battery recharge itself only when the petrol is used? So only after i exceed this first 60 km of battery power? 

IMHO.
Hybrid car consist of electric motor,  petrol engine and battery.   
The battery usually is charged by the petrol engine or can be by regenerative braking when slowing down or stepping on the brakes.
The car be be propel either by the the electric motor, petrol engine or both together. 

The battery capacity in a hybrid usually is not large.  In my hybrid, on battery,  I estimate can go MAYBE 2km. 🤣

The way a hybrid is intended to work is to use electric when the car moves off from stationary which in a conventional ICE,  consumes a fair bit of petrol. 
Also,  when a hybrid slows down thru lifting of the accelerator pedal or stepping on the brakes,  energy will be recovered and stored in the battery. 

 

[Vratenza]

On 3/6/2024 at 2:00 PM, Voodooman said:

Yes, battery degradation is not even claimable but not much a risk for our type of mileage and distance from east to west with EV range crossing 500km.

Accident and repair is biggest risk.  Insurance premium has to go up if industry can't find a solution to battery replacement by module at a reasonable price.

Yes battery degradation might be logically (data-wise) assessed to be non concern at least within the warranty period.... But the willlingness and price the 2nd hand EV car buyer is willing to pay is more likely than not be illogical and sentiment based. 

I put myself in the empirical situation of a 2nd hand EV car buyer looking for a 2nd hand EV car and considering all the factors....... I see EV battery degradation as wear and tear item that has a huge price tag if and when I am unlucky enough to encounter down the ownership road. 

If i look for equivalence in the 2nd hand ICE car, it will be that of entire engine or tranny overhaul or rebuilt.... But the cost will not be anything close to a brand new EV battery. 

[Kklee]

On 3/6/2024 at 10:01 PM, Vratenza said:

Yes battery degradation might be logically (data-wise) assessed to be non concern at least within the warranty period.... But the willlingness and price the 2nd hand EV car buyer is willing to pay is more likely than not be illogical and sentiment based. 

I put myself in the empirical situation of a 2nd hand EV car buyer looking for a 2nd hand EV car and considering all the factors....... I see EV battery degradation as wear and tear item that has a huge price tag if and when I am unlucky enough to encounter down the ownership road. 

If i look for equivalence in the 2nd hand ICE car, it will be that of entire engine or tranny overhaul or rebuilt.... But the cost will not be anything close to a brand new EV battery. 

IMHO.
One way of looking at an ICE vehicle is the engine is sort of like a "mechanical battery".  This "battery" is built to be commonly serviceable.🤣
 

 

[Tianmo]

Strangely why are we comparing the ICE engine to the EV battery?

Sld not the ICE engine = EV motor, and EV battery = ICE fuel tank? 

One is the driving element whereas the other is just the fuel?

 

[Vratenza]

On 3/7/2024 at 9:03 AM, Tianmo said:

Strangely why are we comparing the ICE engine to the EV battery?

Sld not the ICE engine = EV motor, and EV battery = ICE fuel tank? 

One is the driving element whereas the other is just the fuel?

 

cos ICE fuel tank cheap cheap....😁

[Lethalstrike]

On 3/7/2024 at 9:03 AM, Tianmo said:

Strangely why are we comparing the ICE engine to the EV battery?

Sld not the ICE engine = EV motor, and EV battery = ICE fuel tank? 

One is the driving element whereas the other is just the fuel?

 

For EVs, its better to regard the electric motor & high voltage battery together as part of the propulsion system. One cannot do without the other. 

Just like for ICEs, we always regard engine & transmission together as part of the propulsion system. Hardly anyone gives a shit about condition of the fuel tank 🤣

But you're right in your analogy that battery = fuel tank 😄

Edited March 7, 2024 by Lethalstrike

[Hamburger]

PHEV or whatever other hybrid is just gimmick for me.

At the end of the day when the cell is depleted and could only use ICE to move, the additional weight of the motor and battery are just extra dead weight to hurl along that simply defeated the purpose.

aka take out trouser and fart.

 

[Vratenza]

On 3/7/2024 at 10:01 AM, Hamburger said:

PHEV or whatever other hybrid is just gimmick for me.

At the end of the day when the cell is depleted and could only use ICE to move, the additional weight of the motor and battery are just extra dead weight to hurl along that simply defeated the purpose.

aka take out trouser and fart.

 

the elephant in the room of hybrids (plugin hybrids or conventional hybrids) is that best of both worlds comes with the reliability issues, maintenance cost and effort of both systems.

[RadX]

Whilst u are all fighting....i shd be on to my next EV.......😅

 

not so soon. as just renewed insurace.....so dun look for Mr Tan😅

[Lala81]

On 3/7/2024 at 10:01 AM, Hamburger said:

PHEV or whatever other hybrid is just gimmick for me.

At the end of the day when the cell is depleted and could only use ICE to move, the additional weight of the motor and battery are just extra dead weight to hurl along that simply defeated the purpose.

aka take out trouser and fart.

 

depends on your specific use case. If u do regular city driving but want to drive to Ipoh frequently, maybe say 1-2 times a month. Then it may make sense for you.
Its the same for those people who need to do few hundred km road trip regularly for work/family. 

U get the benefits of EV while doing your regular commute (of course charge at home for angmohs) but have zero range anxiety.