Electric cars

[Lala81]

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/aeV5ghJ4gYU5DmiJ/?mibextid=xfxF2i

 

[inlinesix]

That’s why Merc is just slow down the demise of ICE.

 

[jcmm]

On 3/3/2024 at 1:25 PM, Voodooman said:

Go read what they did to Japan when it threatened them technologically in 20-30 years ago.  There is a pattern. So don't believe in their free trade BS.  This is realpolitik.

Free trade?  They want to dictate what is beneficiary to them. 

[Beanoyip]

I was having a look at plugshare, where are all the DCFC? Those 300kw type? I can't find any.

[inlinesix]

On 3/5/2024 at 8:08 AM, Beanoyip said:

I was having a look at plugshare, where are all the DCFC? Those 300kw type? I can't find any.

I only know 1 shopping mall has 250kw.

I don’t think SG got 300kw 

[Beanoyip]

On 3/5/2024 at 11:26 AM, inlinesix said:

I only know 1 shopping mall has 250kw.

I don’t think SG got 300kw 

Fair enough, most cars wouldn't hit 300 or even 200..

I hope in the future, at least it needs more 150kw chargers, these would decrease the time for charging.

Most I see now are 25/50kw.

[inlinesix]

On 3/5/2024 at 8:31 AM, Beanoyip said:

Fair enough, most cars wouldn't hit 300 or even 200..

I hope in the future, at least it needs more 150kw chargers, these would decrease the time for charging.

Most I see now are 25/50kw.

DC 50kw. I don’t think DC got 25kw.

[Vratenza]

On 3/3/2024 at 10:37 PM, Lala81 said:

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/aeV5ghJ4gYU5DmiJ/?mibextid=xfxF2i

 

Yeah, I hope to be proven wrong about the 2nd hand EV market in our Singapore context too...  but honestly I suspect it is going to be as ugly as UK/US if not more, given our unique COE/parf rebate structure.

[Beanoyip]

On 3/5/2024 at 11:36 AM, inlinesix said:

DC 50kw. I don’t think DC got 25kw.

At least at my place have.

If 2 plugs 50kw, each also getting 25kw 🤣

[2wiremodem]

My car uses ChaDeMo, given up hope of having fast charge in SG.
but recently a company in China created the CCS2 to ChaDeMo adapter and it seems to work well, waiting for the price to drop before buying the adapter. Cost $1K now.. 
Any one else driving an EV with ChaDeMo?

[Voodooman]

On 3/5/2024 at 8:44 AM, Vratenza said:

Yeah, I hope to be proven wrong about the 2nd hand EV market in our Singapore context too...  but honestly I suspect it is going to be as ugly as UK/US if not more, given our unique COE/parf rebate structure.

In US and UK, people keep their car for 20 years, so battery replacement, at some point in time, is likely and it will be costly relative to new car price over there. In SG, battery replacement cost is 10-20% of new car price?  

Based on Tesla records, battery degradation is pretty minimal, 12% in 320,000 km. 

I would think EV resale price will be driven more by cheaper new EV with better range and features.

Anyway, we will know in next few years, a lot more EV on our roads these days.  

 

[Eastmaner]

@2wiremodem Tan Cheong Motor has 2 ChaDeMo chargers at their 2 showrooms. I understand it’s free for their customers.

I think the world is moving away from ChaDeMo. I believe both Nissan and Lexus gave in and installed CCS on their latest EVs.

The good news is that rapid charge is not good for the battery anyway…most limit fast charge unless absolutely necessary ( eg go Malaysia )

 

[Eastmaner]

@Voodooman the technical support base seems to be strong in Europe at least. There are workshops offering batteries ( including upgrades ) for earlier generation Nissan leafs. 
 

I have been looking at second hand evs and noticed that the sales pple are not equipped to sell EVs. SOH of batteries is probably the most important factor buyers look at. However, when asked if they could assist to check SOH of batteries…the answer is NO.  I am not referring to small time dealers but even AD affiliated dealers aren’t keen to help. Unfortunately, this means second hand EVs don’t move as fast and probably will affect resale value. 

Edited March 5 by Eastmaner

[Vratenza]

On 3/6/2024 at 12:32 AM, Voodooman said:

In US and UK, people keep their car for 20 years, so battery replacement, at some point in time, is likely and it will be costly relative to new car price over there. In SG, battery replacement cost is 10-20% of new car price?  

Based on Tesla records, battery degradation is pretty minimal, 12% in 320,000 km. 

I would think EV resale price will be driven more by cheaper new EV with better range and features.

Anyway, we will know in next few years, a lot more EV on our roads these days.  

 

10-20% of new car price is easily $$20-$40K cold hard cash up front....wonder how many non-MCFers can come up with that kind of cash on the fly....😅

 

Just wondering if any MCFers driving EVs (non lux category) now kenna low-balled paper value by the dealers yet....😆

Edited March 6 by Vratenza

[Voodooman]

On 3/6/2024 at 8:51 AM, Vratenza said:

10-20% of new car price is easily $$20-$40K cold hard cash up front....wonder how many non-MCFers can come up with that kind of cash on the fly....😅

 

Just wondering if any MCFers driving EVs (non lux category) now kenna low-balled paper value by the dealers yet....😆

In US, with high labor cost, battery replacement cost is reportedly around US$5-20k, depending on model.  Agree it is no small sum here but at least it is not 40-50% of new car cost, like in the US.  The average American don't have US$10k in their saving accounts (median is US$8k, I read). So EV risk is sibei high. 😂  

Most EV are covered by 8 years battery warranty and at the end of 8 years, cars with badly degraded battery (statistically not a big issue) will probably be scrapped.  It is a loss but if we are already paying $20-30k a year in depreciation, it is not life and death. We are sibei rich to pay $200-300k for a car. 😂😂😂

Agree it will reduce demand for 2nd hand EV, relatively speaking, but it won't be fire sales prices with our 10 years COE and vehicle taxation regime.  

[inlinesix]

On 3/6/2024 at 10:46 AM, Voodooman said:

In US, with high labor cost, battery replacement cost is reportedly around US$5-20k, depending on model.  Agree it is no small sum here but at least it is not 40-50% of new car cost, like in the US.  The average American don't have US$10k in their saving accounts (median is US$8k, I read). So EV risk is sibei high. 😂  

Most EV are covered by 8 years battery warranty and at the end of 8 years, cars with badly degraded battery (statistically not a big issue) will probably be scrapped.  It is a loss but if we are already paying $20-30k a year in depreciation, it is not life and death. We are sibei rich to pay $200-300k for a car. 😂😂😂

Agree it will reduce demand for 2nd hand EV, relatively speaking, but it won't be fire sales prices with our 10 years COE and vehicle taxation regime.  

In Sg, Battery degradation is least of a worry.

Need to clock 250k km.

At this mileage, it is difficult to sell to used car dealers.

The biggest problem is insurance claims.

It can easily trigger a total loss claims

[Vratenza]

On 3/6/2024 at 10:46 AM, Voodooman said:

In US, with high labor cost, battery replacement cost is reportedly around US$5-20k, depending on model.  Agree it is no small sum here but at least it is not 40-50% of new car cost, like in the US.  The average American don't have US$10k in their saving accounts (median is US$8k, I read). So EV risk is sibei high. 😂  

Most EV are covered by 8 years battery warranty and at the end of 8 years, cars with badly degraded battery (statistically not a big issue) will probably be scrapped.  It is a loss but if we are already paying $20-30k a year in depreciation, it is not life and death. We are sibei rich to pay $200-300k for a car. 😂😂😂

Agree it will reduce demand for 2nd hand EV, relatively speaking, but it won't be fire sales prices with our 10 years COE and vehicle taxation regime.  

let's just take the last 2 years of >100k-150K COE situation when EV sales are in upward trajectory.....in the next 2 years of expected more COE supply (and if ah gong truly control the COE bidding by leasing companies), if COE drops to 30-50K, many of those EVs (low parf) and high COE owners will look to deregister and scrap/export their EVs to cut loss on their depreciation and reenter the car ownership market at a more sane depreciation.

If I am in the mjarket for EV in the next 2 years....why would I buy a pre-owned EV that comes with the high depreciation from the crazy 100-150K COE?

Add on to the fact the China EVs are going to flood the market with more reasonably priced EVs pressuring even Tesla in cutting their prices....why will I buy an aging EV?

No fire sales maybe...but I do not see use case for buying a 2nd hand EV in our local context.

[Lala81]

On 3/6/2024 at 1:02 PM, Vratenza said:

let's just take the last 2 years of >100k-150K COE situation when EV sales are in upward trajectory.....in the next 2 years of expected more COE supply (and if ah gong truly control the COE bidding by leasing companies), if COE drops to 30-50K, many of those EVs (low parf) and high COE owners will look to deregister and scrap/export their EVs to cut loss on their depreciation and reenter the car ownership market at a more sane depreciation.

If I am in the mjarket for EV in the next 2 years....why would I buy a pre-owned EV that comes with the high depreciation from the crazy 100-150K COE?

Add on to the fact the China EVs are going to flood the market with more reasonably priced EVs pressuring even Tesla in cutting their prices....why will I buy an aging EV?

No fire sales maybe...but I do not see use case for buying a 2nd hand EV in our local context.

Just read some EV news on my newsfeed. Byd just started selling Yuan (Atto 3) at lower price in china.