Electric cars

[Lethalstrike]

On 2/14/2024 at 2:22 PM, Tianmo said:

Why not use a  Volvo EV vs a Volvo ICE? 

It's a Volvo after all, and it's going to take a lot to beat one in terms of safety. 

I think its probably because Volvo currently still did not have a mid-sized EV SUV yet, which can be the closest to the Model Y in size. They only have XC40, C40 EVs which are 1 segment smaller than Model Y. So not really an apple to apple crash comparison 🤣

You're right about Volvo being hard to beat in a real world crash. From the video, Volvo still edges out the Model Y for structural integrity in some areas, considering the XC60 is based on the SPA platform which came out ages ago man. 

[Beregond]

On 2/14/2024 at 11:53 AM, Lethalstrike said:

Wait for Tesla fanboys to come in refute you gao gao ! 🤣

Won't la.

I dun see any EV drivers  have issue with ice cars.

But instead the other way round.  I see alot of ice drivers have issue with EV cars. 

😂😂😂 

[Tianmo]

On 2/14/2024 at 2:52 PM, Lethalstrike said:

I think its probably because Volvo currently still did not have a mid-sized EV SUV yet, which can be the closest to the Model Y in size. They only have XC40, C40 EVs which are 1 segment smaller than Model Y. So not really an apple to apple crash comparison 🤣

You're right about Volvo being hard to beat in a real world crash. From the video, Volvo still edges out the Model Y for structural integrity in some areas, considering the XC60 is based on the SPA platform which came out ages ago man. 

I mean say use a XC40 EV vs a XC40 ICE? Unless they don't produce any more XC40 in ICE. 

No need to be anything same as the model Y mah, if not using the model Y. Of course, in this case is because they wanted to see how the model Y fair, so came the XC60.

 

[Lethalstrike]

On 2/14/2024 at 3:01 PM, Tianmo said:

I mean say use a XC40 EV vs a XC40 ICE? Unless they don't produce any more XC40 in ICE. 

No need to be anything same as the model Y mah, if not using the model Y. Of course, in this case is because they wanted to see how the model Y fair, so came the XC60.

I think its more of the latter which they wanted to find out 🤣

XC40 EV vs XC40 ICE nobody really interested lah. Waste time do Youtube video 

[Theoldjaffa]

On 2/14/2024 at 7:15 AM, RadX said:

this is GOLD!!!

boss, what are u waiting for?

come back to the dino side! let's go workshop togetherly!

[Theoldjaffa]

On 2/14/2024 at 2:56 PM, Beregond said:

Won't la.

I dun see any EV drivers  have issue with ice cars.

But instead the other way round.  I see alot of ice drivers have issue with EV cars. 

😂😂😂 

bro...u din say about the EV drivers having issues with EV drivers.

just see how some Tesla drivers *were* constantly with attacking BYD's value, or criticizing the Ioniq5

or how EV drivers post and shame other EVs for hogging lots/parking without charging

[Beregond]

On 2/14/2024 at 3:32 PM, Theoldjaffa said:

 

just see how some Tesla drivers *were* constantly with attacking BYD's value, or criticizing the Ioniq5

Confirm plus chop.

My own friend loh.

I really dun like ioniq5 rear view.😑

 

[Vratenza]

On 2/14/2024 at 3:32 PM, Theoldjaffa said:

bro...u din say about the EV drivers having issues with EV drivers.

just see how some Tesla drivers *were* constantly with attacking BYD's value, or criticizing the Ioniq5

or how EV drivers post and shame other EVs for hogging lots/parking without charging

Need to validate their "smart" choice mah....

[Sdf4786k]

On 2/12/2024 at 10:12 PM, Atachi said:

The energy transition will falter unless consumers feel more comfortable about buying a used battery-powered vehicle.

Secondhand EVs Are Starting to Look Like a Bargain

The energy transition will falter unless consumers feel more comfortable about buying a used battery-powered vehicle.

You need at least £79,000 ($99,000) to buy a new electric Porsche Taycan in the UK; higher-specification versions of these sporty sedans cost tens of thousands more. However, three-year old Taycans are now available for less than £50,000. A used electric Jaguar iPace SUV – voted World Car of the Year in 2019 — can be yours for under £20,000, and BMW’s boxy i3 electric hatchback is often priced below £10,000 in the second-hand market.1

Cambridgeshire used car dealer Laurie Kempster of Auto Union Trading Co has sold 15 Porsche Taycans in the past six weeks – in some cases to overseas buyers, for less than half what the vehicle cost when new. “We noticed the price of these cars coming down significantly, and so bought a few and they sold straight away. So we’ve kept buying them,” he told me by phone. “There is demand for used EVs once prices become more reasonable.”

Sinking second-hand values are great for potential customers, but they’re painful for early adopters and the car industry: High depreciation dents fleet owner profits and makes new leases more expensive. 

The energy transition will falter unless governments and the automotive industry can get consumers comfortable buying a second-hand EV. More than three-quarters of cars purchased annually in Europe are pre-owned, yet EVs still account for less than 2% of used car sales in large markets like the UK and Germany.

Average advertised prices for second-hand EVs have fallen around 23% in the UK in the past 12 months on a like-for-like basis, according to data compiled by listings site Auto Trader, whereas overall used vehicle asking prices have declined less than 6%. The site now has hundreds of pre-owned Porsche Taycans for sale; other EV models have experienced even worse value declines. 

Used EV Bloodbath

Models from Audi and Tesla saw some of the biggest price declines

Source: AutoTrader

Note: this is a selection of more comprehensive data for January 2024

The automotive industry is no stranger to depreciation – vehicles of all types lose value as soon as you drive them off the dealer lot and typically shed around half of the new price after three years on the road. 

This math was briefly transformed during the pandemic as a hiatus in vehicle production caused used-car values to soar. As prices have begun to normalize, EVs have lost value faster than combustion-engine models. Battery-powered vehicles retain just 38.4% of their initial value on trade-in after 36 months and 60,000 kilometers (37,200 miles), compared to 53.3% of the original value for all fuel-types, according to UK data compiled in January by Autovista24, an affiliate of the automotive pricing group.2

The divergence is expected to continue, as this Auto Trader projection of future residual values shows. 

In some cases, used EVs are now cheaper than their combustion-engine equivalents, even though they may have cost far more when new. This is problem for companies that have lots of EVs on their books: in September UK EV subscription service Onto Holdings fell into administration, blaming its financial difficulties on plunging residual values. Members of the British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association are “almost universally reporting their alarm at the levels of residual-value risk they are carrying, especially with regards to BEVs,” the industry body warned in December. 

A price war in new EVs triggered by Tesla Inc.’s price cuts isn’t helping, but there are other factors at play: Consumers know the next generation of battery-powered vehicles will be better than manufacturers’ initial efforts and aren’t willing to pay up for technology that may soon be old-hat. And customers remain nervous about battery longevity, despite the fact EVs usually come with an eight-year battery warranty and studies have shown cells don’t degrade as rapidly as feared.

Source: AutoTrader Note: Data refer to 3 year-old vehicles

Booming new EV sales may have provided a false sense of underlying consumer demand. Fleets and businesses account for more than three quarters of UK EV sales thanks to generous tax incentives.

“The tax benefit makes even quite fancy EVs financially more attractive than a new middling petrol car,” says Ben Nelmes, chief executive officer at clean-transport think tank New AutoMotive. “The UK government’s strategy was to get corporate fleets to purchase EVs, and then provide a supply of cheaper EVs to the second-hand market. That’s worked very well but public attitudes to used EVs have been influenced by misinformation and are on the skeptical side.”

The danger is there aren’t sufficient buyers once leased corporate vehicles enter the second-hand market, and there’s a mismatch in the type of vehicles available: premium EVs used as company cars might not appeal to private buyers seeking a cheap second-hand model.

A glut of second-hand EVs may worsen as fleets and rental companies such as Hertz Global Holdings Inc. dump EVs due to high depreciation and maintenance costs and as emissions regulations force manufacturers to keep selling new EVs, regardless of the strength of demand. 

Volatile second-hand values have triggered calls for more governments to  prop up the second-hand market — the US and Netherlands are among countries that already subsidize such purchases. 

A more sustainable solution is to alleviate lingering consumer worries. Along with improving charging infrastructure and tackling high insurance and collision repair costs3, accelerating efforts to create a standardized testthat dealerships can perform to certify the health of the battery should be a priority. More detailed information about the charging history would help too as this can affect battery longevity. 

The onus is also on manufacturers to invest in their second-hand EV sales operations, while lessors should promote used EVs to company car users, rather than just new vehicles (as Octopus Electric Vehicles is doing, for example). 

Eventually, the market may pivot and reward EVs with better residual values than the combustion engine models they replace. But in the meantime, a disorderly used EV market could sow distrust and push up the cost of new EV leases (whose price is calculated based on estimated depreciation).

For those prepared to do their homework — and to risk further potential residual value declines — it could be a great moment to pick up a cheap used EV. Indeed, even Porsches are starting to look like a bargain.

not in the SG context.

Most EV I see still slightly less by 2 - 3K than a new EV.

[Sdf4786k]

On 2/15/2024 at 12:59 PM, Vratenza said:

Need to validate their "smart" choice mah....

entitlement most likely.

[Vratenza]

On 2/15/2024 at 3:54 PM, Sdf4786k said:

not in the SG context.

Most EV I see still slightly less by 2 - 3K than a new EV.

Asking vs transacted prices can be very different... Most important is to know what the 2nd dealers are offering to buy in these used EVs.....paper value is mostly non existent except for the high COE. 

[Vratenza]

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSF2oFcLP/

Sorry only chinese language... 

[Volvobrick]

Been in Jipun for the last several days. Interestingly saw ZERO EV in Hokkaido, and only 1 Tesla in Tokyo.

No wonder Toyota not really into EV. 

[inlinesix]

On 2/15/2024 at 7:08 PM, Vratenza said:

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSF2oFcLP/

Sorry only chinese language... 

 

[inlinesix]

On 2/15/2024 at 8:06 PM, Volvobrick said:

Been in Jipun for the last several days. Interestingly saw ZERO EV in Hokkaido, and only 1 Tesla in Tokyo.

No wonder Toyota not really into EV. 

Japan has been pushing hydrogen economy as Japan lacks of electricity.

After Fukushima, it is worse.

 

[Voodooman]

On 2/15/2024 at 8:52 PM, inlinesix said:

Japan has been pushing hydrogen economy as Japan lacks of electricity.

After Fukushima, it is worse.

 

On the record, Toyota is still investing in hydrogen but it is spending a lot more money to build an EV platform and EV plants, trying to catch up with BYD and Tesla.

Hydrogen cars can't work, at least not for next 10 years, unless there is a breakthrough in new technology. This is a good educational video for those who believe in the hydrogen hype but most then people just want to believe in that they want to believe in.

[inlinesix]

 

[Sdf4786k]

On 2/15/2024 at 8:06 PM, Volvobrick said:

Been in Jipun for the last several days. Interestingly saw ZERO EV in Hokkaido, and only 1 Tesla in Tokyo.

No wonder Toyota not really into EV. 

Went there in 2023. You notice very little charging station.

But there are many nice driving B road there... EV may not be the best canon carving vehicles