Electric cars

[inlinesix]

On 1/1/2024 at 10:31 PM, Thaiyotakamli said:

The rebate all this eat up the paper value

ur ev literally has no paper value 

but still i will consider ev as next car. After test drive love it. Just that resale worry harder to sell 

You want paper value, can only think of 1 brand.

[inlinesix]

ICE car Road tax could be aligned to EV some day in future.

It is so outdated now.

A45 Road tax is $1.2k.

If based on EV formula, it will be $4.3k.

[Ct3833]

On 1/1/2024 at 11:13 PM, inlinesix said:

ICE car Road tax could be aligned to EV some day in future.

It is so outdated now.

A45 Road tax is $1.2k.

If based on EV formula, it will be $4.3k.

I hope LTA misses your post 😅

[mersaylee]

On 1/1/2024 at 10:43 PM, Soya said:

'VES rebate' is a ownself subsidise ownself joke

And the EV road tax surcharge is another sick joke

'Going green' in Sg is still largely greenwashing 

Stick to VES neutral band B car so u won't get shafted 

'Nuff said

 

Agreed...why formula satu and not formula E...? It's all about the kaching kaching kaching...😁

[inlinesix]

On 1/1/2024 at 11:35 PM, mersaylee said:

Agreed...why formula satu and not formula E...? It's all about the kaching kaching kaching...😁

Rather whatever washing, Govt has been emphasising CarLite for the longest time.

 

[inlinesix]

On 1/1/2024 at 11:28 PM, Ct3833 said:

I hope LTA misses your post 😅

If you are driving Corolla, the difference is less than $100/mth

🤭

[Ct3833]

On 1/1/2024 at 11:43 PM, inlinesix said:

If you are driving Corolla, the difference is less than $100/mth

🤭

You know i drive old coe car, as long as can move type , not the A45 category. 😄 

[Volvobrick]

On 1/1/2024 at 8:36 PM, therock said:

A recent meet up with some friends and auto buddies led me to think if I should jump onto the latest trend, and the biggest thing in the automobile industry now is the tide of change, from internal combustion engines (ICE)s to electric vehicles or EVs. With the COE of my car running out in just a little more than three years, I am keen watching this page. But if I go by current trends, costs and also a deeper dive, I am likely to stay with the traditional gas guzzler.

 

For context, I have to mention my current car usage. My trip to work is rather short, with minimal traffic jams. I do commute between two to three worksites, which is made much easier by hopping into the car and then driving between these destinations. They are also not too far apart, but if I factor in time for taxis or private hire vehicles (PHV)s, I will spend a significant amount of time waiting. There are no direct buses between the sites. I also take longer journeys on the weekend to fetch my little one to enrichment classes, visit the in laws, church and such. With the family in tow, all four seats as well as the baby seat are filled up on such runs. I also do errands. However, the operating radius is not large apart from the occasional runs or meet up with friends and business related meet ups. 

 

So my annual mileage works out to be just a tad over 10 000km, which is not a lot by anyone's standards. 

 

Now let's look at the three basic kinds of engines you can choose from now. ICEs, hybrids and EVs. I have the ability to charge near or at my home or access them easily at work. 

 

Currently there are certain 'perks' that the government is offering for cars with better emissions. Why the inverted commas? Well these so called rebates are handed to the seller / car makers to package into their pricing, BUT and this is the big but, you have to return half of these rebates when you scrape the car! 

 

Secondly, let's talk about the battery cost. Whilst it may seem that you save on petrol costs, especially if one gets a EV, don't forget to check the cost of the battery. There are now more and more reports of sticker price tag shocks for EV owners when they need to fix or replace these batteries. We are not talking hundreds or even thousands of dollars. We are talking tens of thousands, yep, costs that amount to the that which may match the OMV or basic cost of the car. You might feel it will not happen to you, but some of these 'accidents' are basically nothing more than going over the kerb or bumps and scratching the bottom of the cars. The stuff even the most careful drivers may end up doing once in a while.

 

Now imagine facing such a bill and finding out that the EV has little residual value if the battery is kaput. Or a monumental repair bill to fix or replace that battery. 

 

How about hybrid cars? Again, if you drive like a cabbie, and accumulate 30 to 40k a year, it might make more sense, since you get significantly higher mileage with the true hybrids than a ICE car. The car hybrid battery tends to require replacement around the eighth or ninth year, just when many car makers end their battery related warranty. So you may be a few thousand dollars out of pocket when you wish to replace that battery, and then unless you renew the COE, that car will only be driven for a couple more years.

 

So you really have to sit down and fish out that calculator and determine if the annual mileage, the total amount of petrol saved justifies the outlay for the battery. Some hybrid cars are only hybrid in name with a token battery just to get that rebate, so you need to check the details and do the maths.

 

You will also need to add in maintenance, and whilst EVs tend to require less visits to the workshop for the engine, you need to make sure there are trained mechanics which can back up the car, and the numbers are thin on the ground currently, even if you return to the original sellers. Many do not, baulking at their charges, but with the kind of electronics inside, things could get dicey if you go beyond just tires and wiper replacement.

 

As for tires, you also need to know EVs use larger wheels and also different tires. Many budget cars currently run on 15 or 16" wheels and you spend about $100-$150 per tire. Expect to double or triple that for EVs, due to their heavier weight. 

 

Speaking of maintenance, the EVs are not entirely similar to their ICE cousins. Ever sat in a Tesla or even a BYD? It feels more like a PC on wheels than your traditional car. Some Tesla owners have been caught out when their cars are doing software updates, and you could have a dead car just when you need to rush out. There are changes afoot, but touchscreens are harder to use when you're driving and having to dive four or five layers into their menu just to turn down the volume or air con temperature is not only a hassle but dangerous whilst driving. 

 

Now that we are talking about the interior and ergonomics, I also dislike the Tesla car handles. You need to pry them out, and I much prefer the traditional ones with a generous hand grip. Try handling groceries or a struggling baby whilst opening your car door and you'll understand. 

 

The other issue is safety. We already mentioned that you can crash the OS, so you're effectively locked out of the car. How about potential fires? Already, with the advent of personal mobility devices, we are witnessing huge increases in household fires related to charging issues. Overseas we have witness huge balls of fires when the EVs burst into flames. Firemen often standby and wait for the fires to burn out, because it is really hard to put out the fires related to the batteries. Woe betide any cars parked next to them. 

 

 

 

 

Is my decision process too conservative, too dated? 

 

There is still some time before I need to commit so I shall be watching this EV / hybrid space very intently. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same thinking except my annual usage is even less at about 6k and going to be even lesser with no more daily school runs plus likely more overseas trips. 

I may even renew my car a second time. Don't think it will even hit 150k km by then. 

 

[therock]

I also take regular trips up north and range anxiety or the lack of chargers also worries me……

[Stratovarius]

EV now are just like smartphones in the early 2000s. The technology now is still developing and maturing. So yes, there will be no resale value even you got a "flagship" model as newer and better models will be pumping out every 6 months. Despite EV having lower maintenance costs, swapping out batteries is going to cost more than rebuilding engines. 

In context of SG, it costs more to run an EV if your mileage is lower than 10k per annum which i believed that many of us are clocking. Thus it does not make financial sense to change unless gahmen decides to tax heavily on ice cars. 

So it's unlikely i will change to an EV when my coe is up in 3 years. i guess it will be the same for those owners who don't maximize the utilization of their vehicles. 

[Jamesc]

Low mileage 

don't bother with EVs.

On 1/1/2024 at 7:36 PM, therock said:

A recent meet up with some friends and auto buddies led me to think if I should jump onto the latest trend, and the biggest thing in the automobile industry now is the tide of change, from internal combustion engines (ICE)s to electric vehicles or EVs. With the COE of my car running out in just a little more than three years, I am keen watching this page. But if I go by current trends, costs and also a deeper dive, I am likely to stay with the traditional gas guzzler.

 

For context, I have to mention my current car usage. My trip to work is rather short, with minimal traffic jams. I do commute between two to three worksites, which is made much easier by hopping into the car and then driving between these destinations. They are also not too far apart, but if I factor in time for taxis or private hire vehicles (PHV)s, I will spend a significant amount of time waiting. There are no direct buses between the sites. I also take longer journeys on the weekend to fetch my little one to enrichment classes, visit the in laws, church and such. With the family in tow, all four seats as well as the baby seat are filled up on such runs. I also do errands. However, the operating radius is not large apart from the occasional runs or meet up with friends and business related meet ups. 

 

So my annual mileage works out to be just a tad over 10 000km, which is not a lot by anyone's standards. 

 

Now let's look at the three basic kinds of engines you can choose from now. ICEs, hybrids and EVs. I have the ability to charge near or at my home or access them easily at work. 

 

Currently there are certain 'perks' that the government is offering for cars with better emissions. Why the inverted commas? Well these so called rebates are handed to the seller / car makers to package into their pricing, BUT and this is the big but, you have to return half of these rebates when you scrape the car! 

 

Secondly, let's talk about the battery cost. Whilst it may seem that you save on petrol costs, especially if one gets a EV, don't forget to check the cost of the battery. There are now more and more reports of sticker price tag shocks for EV owners when they need to fix or replace these batteries. We are not talking hundreds or even thousands of dollars. We are talking tens of thousands, yep, costs that amount to the that which may match the OMV or basic cost of the car. You might feel it will not happen to you, but some of these 'accidents' are basically nothing more than going over the kerb or bumps and scratching the bottom of the cars. The stuff even the most careful drivers may end up doing once in a while.

 

Now imagine facing such a bill and finding out that the EV has little residual value if the battery is kaput. Or a monumental repair bill to fix or replace that battery. 

 

How about hybrid cars? Again, if you drive like a cabbie, and accumulate 30 to 40k a year, it might make more sense, since you get significantly higher mileage with the true hybrids than a ICE car. The car hybrid battery tends to require replacement around the eighth or ninth year, just when many car makers end their battery related warranty. So you may be a few thousand dollars out of pocket when you wish to replace that battery, and then unless you renew the COE, that car will only be driven for a couple more years.

 

So you really have to sit down and fish out that calculator and determine if the annual mileage, the total amount of petrol saved justifies the outlay for the battery. Some hybrid cars are only hybrid in name with a token battery just to get that rebate, so you need to check the details and do the maths.

 

You will also need to add in maintenance, and whilst EVs tend to require less visits to the workshop for the engine, you need to make sure there are trained mechanics which can back up the car, and the numbers are thin on the ground currently, even if you return to the original sellers. Many do not, baulking at their charges, but with the kind of electronics inside, things could get dicey if you go beyond just tires and wiper replacement.

 

As for tires, you also need to know EVs use larger wheels and also different tires. Many budget cars currently run on 15 or 16" wheels and you spend about $100-$150 per tire. Expect to double or triple that for EVs, due to their heavier weight. 

 

Speaking of maintenance, the EVs are not entirely similar to their ICE cousins. Ever sat in a Tesla or even a BYD? It feels more like a PC on wheels than your traditional car. Some Tesla owners have been caught out when their cars are doing software updates, and you could have a dead car just when you need to rush out. There are changes afoot, but touchscreens are harder to use when you're driving and having to dive four or five layers into their menu just to turn down the volume or air con temperature is not only a hassle but dangerous whilst driving. 

 

Now that we are talking about the interior and ergonomics, I also dislike the Tesla car handles. You need to pry them out, and I much prefer the traditional ones with a generous hand grip. Try handling groceries or a struggling baby whilst opening your car door and you'll understand. 

 

The other issue is safety. We already mentioned that you can crash the OS, so you're effectively locked out of the car. How about potential fires? Already, with the advent of personal mobility devices, we are witnessing huge increases in household fires related to charging issues. Overseas we have witness huge balls of fires when the EVs burst into flames. Firemen often standby and wait for the fires to burn out, because it is really hard to put out the fires related to the batteries. Woe betide any cars parked next to them. 

 

 

 

 

Is my decision process too conservative, too dated? 

 

There is still some time before I need to commit so I shall be watching this EV / hybrid space very intently. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Watwheels]

I find it quite troublesome when it comes to charging an ev. You need some knowledge to get the most out of the charging. Of course if you are driving a Tesla ev using their DC supercharger it is a no brainer. But what if you are using other non-Tesla charging points or what if your ev is not a Tesla but other brands or models? And why are there AC and DC chargers out there? And wtf I have to start looking out for how much Amperes and other info the charger has on its output?

 

To me it is too tedious looking for the right charger and slow when it comes to charging. Why cant it be straight forward like for the ICE cars going to the petrol kiosk? Choosing just between 95RON or 98RON or 97RON(JB). 

Why cant there be an intelligent charger for the ev like the smartphone?

Edited January 2 by Watwheels

[RadX]

I dare say, some of the comments are based on hearsay.  Esp that on charging...it's not rocket science FFS

 

Read and do your homework.  Into my 9 month and aldy looking to change to the next EV😁

[Lethalstrike]

Actually thread starter is the best kind of profile to own an EV or a plug-in hybrid, since he has access to charging both at work and home. Even if you don't get an EV, a plug in hybrid will still save you from going to the pumps for your daily commute. Go back home charge, reach office charge. You will probably only need to pump petrol once every 2 months, if the daily commute distance is typically like 50km per way. 

The rest of the points I can see your concerns, but some are the least of your worries. My main gripes are still the fake rebates at the cost of your parf, and AFC on top of the high road tax. 

[Lethalstrike]

Delete

Edited January 2 by Lethalstrike
Repost

[therock]

On 1/2/2024 at 9:13 AM, Lethalstrike said:

Actually thread starter is the best kind of profile to own an EV or a plug-in hybrid, since he has access to charging both at work and home. Even if you don't get an EV, a plug in hybrid will still save you from going to the pumps for your daily commute. Go back home charge, reach office charge. You will probably only need to pump petrol once every 2 months, if the daily commute distance is typically like 50km per way. 

The rest of the points I can see your concerns, but some are the least of your worries. My main gripes are still the fake rebates at the cost of your parf, and AFC on top of the high road tax. 

Yeah it’s convenient but the maths doesn’t work out ..

especially since my petrol bill savings aren’t likely to cover any battery costs 

and those chargers at work aren’t cheap $$

And those fast chargers aren’t heathy for your battery 

but technology keeps progressing so who knows 

[RadX]

On 1/2/2024 at 9:20 AM, therock said:

Yeah it’s convenient but the maths doesn’t work out ..

especially since my petrol bill savings aren’t likely to cover any battery costs 

and those chargers at work aren’t cheap $$

And those fast chargers aren’t heathy for your battery 

but technology keeps progressing so who knows 

considering ur mileage, yes, agree....then again, there is the constant scuffle for 'cheapest petrol' that transcends amongst the folks...

As we spoke, once you have your SOLAR setup settled, that shd be the way to go

[RadX]

On 1/2/2024 at 9:13 AM, Lethalstrike said:

Actually thread starter is the best kind of profile to own an EV or a plug-in hybrid, since he has access to charging both at work and home. Even if you don't get an EV, a plug in hybrid will still save you from going to the pumps for your daily commute. Go back home charge, reach office charge. You will probably only need to pump petrol once every 2 months, if the daily commute distance is typically like 50km per way. 

The rest of the points I can see your concerns, but some are the least of your worries. My main gripes are still the fake rebates at the cost of your parf, and AFC on top of the high road tax. 

yea...the 'CCB PAP' moment😁

 

my workplace...NOT the cemetery......has 6 charging spaces installed.....more push for me to carry on my EV ownership