Doomsday!! Scary scenario for Singapore if PAP is voted out?

[Expertz]

Expertz... may I know how old are you??? from the way to write, I believe you are from the group of younger generation that Im refering to? You mentioned that Singapore is the only nation around the region isn't prone to corruption??? If you are refering now, or even 40 yrs ago, yes, I must agree to you. But earlier than that??? you might want to ask your grandparent what is happening during their era...

 

You see, thats the reason why I mentioned, the younger generation doesnt know how to appreciate and take things for granted.... you think its easy to have a good government??? You think its easy to turn a country from corruption to what we have today?? Yeah, of course, its easy to talk, but how many country could achieve that during such a short period of time other than Singapore and HK?

 

PAP then was under LKY who is no longer part of government.

the person who is credited for all your miracles is LKY

not only the leader has changed, every senior member has changed.

 

PAP now is not PAP of 40 years ago. their direction has changed too.

 

if we judge a company based on its past glories or atrocities, then you should avoid brands like IBM, hugo boss and P&G who were once allies and working for the nazis; but look at these companies now

 

just because something is good 4 decades ago doesn't mean it will continue to be good now

credit where credit is due, LKY was a good man but he is no longer part of PAP and PAP today isn't the PAP of yesterday.

 

so why are you still giving credit for something done half a century ago?

[Timbuktu]

how much do you think 3 or 4 seats can do in a parliament of 87 seats?

WP wouldn't be able to do anything with 30 or 40 seats!

And so they won't. Period.

No need to argue till the cows come home about the WPs' dilemma.

They may have won the battle, but lost the war!

 

[Timbuktu]

PAP then was under LKY who is no longer part of government.

the person who is credited for all your miracles is LKY

not only the leader has changed, every senior member has changed.

 

PAP now is not PAP of 40 years ago. their direction has changed too.

 

if we judge a company based on its past glories or atrocities, then you should avoid brands like IBM, hugo boss and P&G who were once allies and working for the nazis; but look at these companies now

 

just because something is good 4 decades ago doesn't mean it will continue to be good now

credit where credit is due, LKY was a good man but he is no longer part of PAP and PAP today isn't the PAP of yesterday.

 

so why are you still giving credit for something done half a century ago?

Agree with most ... but is the WP better?

I think not. By a mile!

 

[Expertz]

Really tired of hearing all these Doomsday theory.

 

In this world, nobody is really that indispensable. If it is, then it is really very dangerous.

When old man graduates one day, the Earth will still be able to rotate, right?

 

i'll give you another doomsday theory

if a day comes where LHL is found to be corrupt and is forced to leave office, PAP will follow

 

then we will realize that we don't have anybody else to run office because all these years we have never groomed another political party to be capable enough to take office.

 

years ago when IBM was manufacturing computer processors they didn't like the idea of having intel monopolise the entire market. so they got other companies like cyrix, via and AMD to manufacture computer processors.

 

look at the computer market of today, where we have nvidia's SLI thanks to 3dfx

we have nvidia thanks to ati. we have audio acceleration hw from creative, we have rambus and ddr ram

 

would all these be possible had IBM felt an intel monopoly is the best way forward?

intel during the 90s wanted a 10ghz pentium 4. the very first dual core chip on the market was from amd, not intel

[Wishcumstrue]

actually if the rumours are true, you might be very wrong.

the problem with the greek government is that they have been mismanaging funds for years and successfully covered up their massive debt to the public

 

i've read reports that singapore's debt to gdp ratio is over 100%, the problem isn't that we are spending too much but where is all the money? where have all the cpf savings gone to?

if such reports are true then PAP are no better than the greek government and only an opposition party will uncover the truth and there will be austerity measures to recover the billions of lost cpf.

 

but will singaporeans accept the truth if it is unveiled?

 

source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count..._by_public_debt

 

That is why I have a disclaimer in my last 2 sentence....simply because we don't have a visibility of what the gov's sovereign wealth fund (GIC, Temasek Holdings) are doing to our Reserves.

 

The major difference from Greek situation is they had been living beyond their means for so long and had been dependent on European Union as a way to hold off their debt repayment.

 

In Singapore case, we know how well-oiled the government revenue making policy is from tax to investments.

 

The thing is all we need is a slight mismanagement is enough to sink the entire Singapore Inc system - we don't have a EU to help us.

 

 

[Albeniz]

...

PAP now is not PAP of 40 years ago. their direction has changed too.

 

if we judge a company based on its past glories or atrocities, then you should avoid brands like IBM, hugo boss and P&G who were once allies and working for the nazis; but look at these companies now

 

just because something is good 4 decades ago doesn't mean it will continue to be good now

credit where credit is due, LKY was a good man but he is no longer part of PAP and PAP today isn't the PAP of yesterday.

 

so why are you still giving credit for something done half a century ago?

 

The moment they said the justification for paying themselves multi-million dollar salary is to prevent corruption, all respects are lost immediately.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Albeniz

[Expertz]

And so they won't. Period.

No need to argue till the cows come home about the WPs' dilemma.

They may have won the battle, but lost the war!

 

the war hasn't even started.

WP only has 6 seats in parliament. what war are you talking about?

they have only got 6.8% of the total vote

 

what war have they lost?

[Expertz]

Agree with most ... but is the WP better?

I think not. By a mile!

 

doesn't matter if they are better now or not

what matters is that they grow.

 

a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

their 6 seats in parliament is a single step

 

reserve your judgement for who is better when WP or another party has 40 seats in parliament

until then do your part and help groom a back up plan

[CKP]

Just take a good look around most countries that have 'democracy'- they're so weaken with fighting with each other till things can hardly move.

 

 

Things can hardly move in democracies?

 

Oh really, then what about authoritarian regimes?

 

 

 

 

Between the Full democracies (Green countries) and Authoritarian Regimes (Red Countries):

 

 

1. Which countries do most immigrants make their top destinations for work, study and life?

 

Answer: Full democracies (Green countries)

 

 

2. Which countries are the most and more wealthy in material terms (GDP per capita)?

 

Answer: Full democracies (Green countries)

 

 

3. Which countries have a higher quality of life as measured by the UN?

 

Answer: Full democracies (Green countries)

 

 

 

4. Which countries are responsible for the creation and production of things,

both tangible and intangible, one uses daily in the pursuit of his happiness and comfortable living?

 

Answer: Full democracies (Green countries)

 

 

 

Question: So where did you get your evidence that democracies "cannot move"?

 

Answer: Probably from other persons like you, who do not use reason to verify facts and evidence.

 

 

Unfortunately, many people are like you who take repetition as the truth and evidence.

 

Edited June 20, 2012 by CKP

[Expertz]

The thing is all we need is a slight mismanagement is enough to sink the entire Singapore Inc system - we don't have a EU to help us.

 

for all those who think singapore is unfallable do read this line again

even the titanic sank.

 

i've mentioned singapore's advantage of being not corrupt, read the recent scandles involving high ranking officials

if we don't groom an alternate party soon enough, we will lose our competitive advantage and there won't be a back up plan for us

 

our ruling party don't even know how much reserves they have, that is like telling people that you don't know how much money you have in your bank!

 

[Albeniz]

Things can hardly move in democracies?

 

Oh really, then what about authoritarian regimes?

 

 

 

 

 

Between the Full democracies (Green countries) and Authoritarian Regimes (Red Countries):

 

 

1. Which countries do most immigrants make their top destinations for work, study and life?

 

Answer: Full democracies (Green countries)

 

 

2. Which countries are the most and more wealthy (GDP per capita)?

 

Answer: Full democracies (Green countries)

 

 

3. Which countries are responsible for the production and creation of things you use daily in

the pursuit of your happiness and comfortable living?

 

Answer: Full democracies (Green countries)

 

 

 

Question: So where did you get your evidence that democracies "cannot move"?

 

Answer: Probably from other persons like you, who do not use reason to verify facts and evidence.

 

Unfortunately, many people are like you who take repetition as the truth and evidence.

 

 

Thanks for providing the list. I couldn't see Singapore in the rankings, OMG is it below North Korea?

 

 

[Expertz]

Question: So where did you get your evidence that democracies "cannot move"?

 

Answer: Probably from other persons like you, who do not use reason to verify facts and evidence.

 

Unfortunately, many people are like you who take repetition as the truth and evidence.

 

 

i find it very hard to believe that despite concrete facts and evidence, people still believe in such misguided concepts.

these people know that our parliament has 87 seats - an odd number

 

yet for some reason they believe that should a bill be passed and needs voting, for some reason the votes might just end up 44 - 44 and no bill can be passed thru parliament because of a political deadlock

[CKP]

Real 'opposition' are for countries that are immensely huge - why? Cos those big countries can afford to

 

Another claim of fact without the evidence to back it up.

 

 

There is no conclusive evidence, one way or the other, that links

 

the size of states to the extent of democractic development.

 

 

The reality is it is a mixed bag of both successful small and large democracies.

 

 

Failed states tend to have not develop democractic institutions

 

The question is not about the size of states.

 

 

[CKP]

Thanks for providing the list. I couldn't see Singapore in the rankings, OMG is it below North Korea?

 

 

Wikipedia... democracy index.

 

Singapore is a "hybrid regime" (full democracy, to flawed democracy, to hybrid regime, to authoritarian state)

 

 

If you scan through the full list, the impression you get is

 

that Singapore is the exception to the rule that

 

"full democracies tend to do better".

 

 

For some reason, people like to use "exceptions to the rule" to make their claims.

 

The other reason is people do not realise that Singapore is a rare exception

 

to the rule of the link of "fuller democracy to higher development".

 

 

Edited June 20, 2012 by CKP

[Tigershark1976]

PAP then was under LKY who is no longer part of government.

the person who is credited for all your miracles is LKY

not only the leader has changed, every senior member has changed.

 

PAP now is not PAP of 40 years ago. their direction has changed too.

 

if we judge a company based on its past glories or atrocities, then you should avoid brands like IBM, hugo boss and P&G who were once allies and working for the nazis; but look at these companies now

 

just because something is good 4 decades ago doesn't mean it will continue to be good now

credit where credit is due, LKY was a good man but he is no longer part of PAP and PAP today isn't the PAP of yesterday.

 

so why are you still giving credit for something done half a century ago?

 

 

You have not answer my question... how old are you? and who are you to judge that the current generation of PAP is not as good as before? Look at what happen to Taiwan. Do you know the price of changing the ruling party? Talk is always cheap, always easy. If you ever work in Customer Service line, you will know that 1 demanding customer alone could drive you crazy, not to mention handling needs and wants from millions of people...

 

Every singaporean have the right to vote for their fav party. However, those who vote must think carefully. Are we ready to bear the consequences? Or simply kpkb over the virtual world again when things went wrong? Pls dont get me wrong, Im not trying to pursuade anyone to vote PAP in the coming election, but before you draw the cross into the box, ask yourself, do you have anything to loss?

 

For me, my decision is clear. I want the current situations to stay and I dont want to see drastic changes, moving too fast? I cant catch up, too slow, I cant wait... Currunt phase its just nice for me.... I dont want my HDB price to drop tremendiously, neither I want to see my purchasing power reduce when I go oversea. At the moment, I dont see how any other party could do better than PAP. But of course, for those who think that the opositions could do better and bring another miracle to Singapore for the next 40 yrs, the choice is yours.

 

As usual, I hope Im not offending any anti PAP bro/sis here... Im nuetral party and I only speak for myself...

[KARTer]

for all those who think singapore is unfallable do read this line again

even the titanic sank.

 

i've mentioned singapore's advantage of being not corrupt, read the recent scandles involving high ranking officials

if we don't groom an alternate party soon enough, we will lose our competitive advantage and there won't be a back up plan for us

our ruling party don't even know how much reserves they have, that is like telling people that you don't know how much money you have in your bank!

not knowing and not telling are not the same.....

[KARTer]

You have not answer my question... how old are you? and who are you to judge that the current generation of PAP is not as good as before? Look at what happen to Taiwan. Do you know the price of changing the ruling party? Talk is always cheap, always easy. If you ever work in Customer Service line, you will know that 1 demanding customer alone could drive you crazy, not to mention handling needs and wants from millions of people...

 

Every singaporean have the right to vote for their fav party. However, those who vote must think carefully. Are we ready to bear the consequences? Or simply kpkb over the virtual world again when things went wrong? Pls dont get me wrong, Im not trying to pursuade anyone to vote PAP in the coming election, but before you draw the cross into the box, ask yourself, do you have anything to loss?

 

For me, my decision is clear. I want the current situations to stay and I dont want to see drastic changes, moving too fast? I cant catch up, too slow, I cant wait... Currunt phase its just nice for me.... I dont want my HDB price to drop tremendiously, neither I want to see my purchasing power reduce when I go oversea. At the moment, I dont see how any other party could do better than PAP. But of course, for those who think that the opositions could do better and bring another miracle to Singapore for the next 40 yrs, the choice is yours.

 

As usual, I hope Im not offending any anti PAP bro/sis here... Im nuetral party and I only speak for myself...

Ruling party needs true checks and balances provided by alternative parties. No matter how good a party has been, there's no guarantee things wont change for the worst when there's no checks and balances. The saying "absolute power corrupts" holds true. Better not give a blank cheque to any ruler. Recent events show things are not exactly right.

[KARTer]

without them in parly you think got so many changes in existing policies and controlled of floodgates of FTs

Miw are showing us just that before GE2011... Eat full why still need to work hard. Now they are working harder..

Well, some believe pxp's in-house checks and balances, if any at all, are all the country needs........ Oh yes, everyone is an angel even when he's given near monopoly within the four-year term