SG Hard Truth by Prof Tommy Koh

[Maroon5]

u know how much is a simple meal in europe? there is no Sin$3 mix vege rice there hor

 

u cannot compare what u earn here and spend here, with what u can earn there to spend here...

 

act the monthly financial load can only b same or worse off for the sg and we keep getting lured into the cheap local taxes, cheap veg rice etc.

 

the cleaner in the case study earns $5k, pays $2.5k in taxes and left $2.5k. but his car cost him only 5k (no instalments to worry), his house is 50k (fully paid), his kids schooling, his healthcare all settled. theres time to smell the roses.

 

compare to someone also earning 5k here, he prob pays 300 taxes but theres cpf (singapore's version of european welfare) so net net his disposal income per month 3.7k. car instalment 1k. kids still tuition. 1 gp visit nowadays $40-50. give parents $500 cos their cpf only can draw aft 67yo. foodcourt meal now with a drink at least S$5-6.

 

but my pt is the sg tax model favours the rich and wil cont to draw them here. 40% vs 17%, u do a maths if someone makes above $500kpa. but for those $100kpa n below, sg is def not better.

 

[New_Atlantis]

When it comes to natural resources, the important ones that matters most are oil and natual gas.

 

Among the nordic countries, only Norway is a net exporter while the rest need to import oil.

 

 

However, none of Nordic countries have ports that lie on international strategic shipping and trade routes like Singapore.

 

Don't ever underestimate how Singapore's strategic location and natural deep harbour

 

which by the way are Singapore's very important natural resources,

 

even though many people mistakently say Singapore has no natural resources (for argument's sake)

 

have allowed several key industries to flourish and contribute significantly to GDP.

 

 

 

 

Wood, Minerals, Energy, Meat........these are the things that fund their socialist system...

 

Don't get me wrong.. like the way some things are done there. but these methods cannot be implimented in Singapore...

 

The port is not a raw material.. strategic factor for growth, but not a natural resource.

 

like i said, everyone has a spare kidney. we can sell those as our raw material.. :D

 

 

 

 

 

[Jim]

A french friend, earning more than sin$8k, with 2 kids, finds it hard to survive after all the taxes. so he is now a FT in singapore.

 

u have yet to factor in the taxes they pay annually

 

Ask him what whether his family is giving up French citizenship. I assure you, he will return to France when he retires, fall sick, and certainly his children will go back to France for their university education. He is now enjoying best of both worlds, escaping French taxes while enjoying the protection those taxes are supposed to pay for.

 

Singaporeans are getting screw.ed at both ends - we get paid little, and few big ticket items are free. If chye perng cost min $10 here, there will be blood in the streets.

[Mockngbrd]

all SGreans shd go become maids

[Westkid]

Wood, Minerals, Energy, Meat........these are the things that fund their socialist system...

 

Don't get me wrong.. like the way some things are done there. but these methods cannot be implimented in Singapore...

 

The port is not a raw material.. strategic factor for growth, but not a natural resource.

 

like i said, everyone has a spare kidney. we can sell those as our raw material.. :D

We also have Minerals, Energy, Meat though some wooden only.

[Scion]

Singaporeans are getting screw.ed at both ends - we get paid little, and few big ticket items are free. If chye perng cost min $10 here, there will be blood in the streets.

 

cai png is $5/6 in food court now

 

and dunno which smart MIW stop the building of hawker centers... luckily they reverse the policy

[Donut]

the problem is our garment refuse to believe and refuse to change.

 

All are waiting for somebody to be the scapegoat

[Westkid]

the problem is our garment refuse to believe and refuse to change.

 

All are waiting for somebody to be the scapegoat

It's the ultra-progression seeking that is at fault.We should not always do that as what LKY did.

It was circumstantial.

[CKP]

Wood, Minerals, Energy, Meat........these are the things that fund their socialist system...

 

Don't get me wrong.. like the way some things are done there. but these methods cannot be implimented in Singapore...

 

The port is not a raw material.. strategic factor for growth, but not a natural resource.

 

like i said, everyone has a spare kidney. we can sell those as our raw material.. :D

 

 

You are limiting your concept of natural resources to something that is extractable and consumed eg fossil fuels and mineral ores.

 

The benefit of location is natural, fixed and independent of government policies.

 

For example, if Singapore port were now sited in Abu Dhabi instead of its present location,

 

Singapore is not going to be an important transit point

 

it was between the large trading blocks of europe in the west and Japan/China/SKorea in the east,

 

no matter how competent government policies are.

 

 

 

That is why location is a natural resource.

 

Location largely determines the relevance, importance and hence success of the port.

 

Raffles did not locate to Singapore because he thought "the port will be well managed",

 

he came here for the excellent natural location and natural deep water harbour.

 

 

There exist the tens of thousands miles of coastal land,

 

but it is highly uncommon to find deep water and sheltered harbour out of this long stretch of land.

 

For example along the US coast, there exist many many cities but only 3 ports significance in the

 

houston (south), new jersey/new york in the (east) and long beach, CA (west).

 

This is because location and local marine topography permits deep water harbour to be set up.

 

This is another reason why location suitable for a deep water port is a natural resource.

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2012 by CKP

[Elmo]

There are some things hard to monetize - like security, availability to healthcare and housing. Comparisons probably can be made between their cities and us, rather as a country vs country.

 

Even if we can't emulate their welfare which is funded by the high taxes, we can invest in our soft skills which is in our natural resource - us!

I have always found our education system to be reactive rather than proactive - the MNCs need engineers, we start a module. You need IT? Let's open up the private schools.

And when the economy changes, we have too many engineers or too few IT experts, because all want to be in finance.

Our education paths are so well defined and our mindset fixed on CBA of an education that we become entrenched in a chosen path too early and stuck with it for most part of the career.

 

Our education system is stressful because we are chasing standards set by others.

Until we can find our unique identity - with the attributes that the world sought, we will continue to be good employees.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Elmo

[Donut]

act the monthly financial load can only b same or worse off for the sg and we keep getting lured into the cheap local taxes, cheap veg rice etc.

 

the cleaner in the case study earns $5k, pays $2.5k in taxes and left $2.5k. but his car cost him only 5k (no instalments to worry), his house is 50k (fully paid), his kids schooling, his healthcare all settled. theres time to smell the roses.

 

compare to someone also earning 5k here, he prob pays 300 taxes but theres cpf (singapore's version of european welfare) so net net his disposal income per month 3.7k. car instalment 1k. kids still tuition. 1 gp visit nowadays $40-50. give parents $500 cos their cpf only can draw aft 67yo. foodcourt meal now with a drink at least S$5-6.

 

but my pt is the sg tax model favours the rich and wil cont to draw them here. 40% vs 17%, u do a maths if someone makes above $500kpa. but for those $100kpa n below, sg is def not better.

 

personally, there is NO one best system in the world.

 

i support Europe's system as well as i support SG's system. Both has its own flaws.

 

the best thing to do is to merge both system, come out with a hybrid one, taking in only the advantages of each system, then we will have a close-to-perfect system.

 

Europe's problem is too much welfare given to the ppl. Dont work, also can get $$ from garment. This is v bad.

Our SG problem is we are too hard on the ppl. Don't work, u will literally starved on the streets. This is v bad as well.

 

But now, Europe is beginning to change, at least in UK that i know of. Now, if you dont work or cannot find job, the garment will ask you to show proof that you have been diligently finding jobs. You must report to the Job Service Centre regularly to find job listings and apply for the suitable postings. Then if you still cannot get a job, garment will give you the weekly $$ allowances. Not so easy these days to get $$ from garment.

 

What i love about Europe system is we pay high taxes, and when we get old, we get alot of FOC things such as medical, housing, public transport. And if you travel overseas as senior citizen, your airfares are heavily discounted. i prefer this way than SG system where everything must pay until you go into coffin.

 

 

[Maroon5]

Wood, Minerals, Energy, Meat........these are the things that fund their socialist system...

 

Don't get me wrong.. like the way some things are done there. but these methods cannot be implimented in Singapore...

 

The port is not a raw material.. strategic factor for growth, but not a natural resource.

 

like i said, everyone has a spare kidney. we can sell those as our raw material.. :D

 

i thk u need to double check the meaning of socialist system.

[New_Atlantis]

You are limiting your concept of natural resources to something that is extractable and consumed eg fossil fuels and mineral ores.

 

The benefit of location is natural, fixed and independent of government policies.

 

 

That is why location is a natural resource.

 

Location largely determines the relevance, importance and hence success of the port.

 

Raffles did not locate to Singapore because he thought "the port will be well managed",

 

he came here for the excellent natural location and natural deep water harbour.

 

 

There exist the tens of thousands miles of coastal land,

 

but it is highly uncommon to find deep water and sheltered harbour out of this long stretch of land.

 

For example along the US coast, there exist many many cities but only 3 ports significance in the

 

houston (south), new jersey/new york in the (east) and long beach, CA (west).

 

This is because location and local marine topography permits deep water harbour to be set up.

 

This is another reason why location suitable for a deep water port is a natural resource.

 

 

 

 

Ok, i take the point.. we can call the port a natural "resource"..

 

singapore is just a transit hub. in a good location, and efficient port. soon we may be priced out of the market.. then what happens to this "resource" ???

 

i define a resource as an item that will have its intrisic value no matter the external factors.

 

 

 

 

 

[Maroon5]

personally, there is NO one best system in the world.

 

i support Europe's system as well as i support SG's system. Both has its own flaws.

 

the best thing to do is to merge both system, come out with a hybrid one, taking in only the advantages of each system, then we will have a close-to-perfect system.

 

Europe's problem is too much welfare given to the ppl. Dont work, also can get $$ from garment. This is v bad.

Our SG problem is we are too hard on the ppl. Don't work, u will literally starved on the streets. This is v bad as well.

 

But now, Europe is beginning to change, at least in UK that i know of. Now, if you dont work or cannot find job, the garment will ask you to show proof that you have been diligently finding jobs. You must report to the Job Service Centre regularly to find job listings and apply for the suitable postings. Then if you still cannot get a job, garment will give you the weekly $$ allowances. Not so easy these days to get $$ from garment.

 

What i love about Europe system is we pay high taxes, and when we get old, we get alot of FOC things such as medical, housing, public transport. And if you travel overseas as senior citizen, your airfares are heavily discounted. i prefer this way than SG system where everything must pay until you go into coffin.

 

tats y the folks there live a good retirement. they may or may not get to travel but at least they dun hv to slog to the graves for subsistence.

 

seriously i thk our elders generation got pawned big time. the economy and prices have moved so ahead and yet they are still living w 1990s value cpf money. their cpf earning 2.5% while inflation runs at 5-6% (n u hv to take a big pinch of salt on their "basket of goods" as well as the sample of families they chose). real wages have moved at least double digits and our elders stil fight for scraps w FT cos they are unskilled and old and deemed "unproductive enough". and lastly they wan all of us to work till 67 yo and the senior citizens concession travel starts at 930am!! wat a slap!

 

[Chevycavy]

Yeah man!

Wonder how's the living expenses there.

 

A typical Mac meal cost about S$15-20 in Norway.

 

A pint of beer almost S$20.

 

Sweden is a tiny bit cheaper.

[Luckcent]

Their cleaners earn 6 times more than ours but their politicians earn 6 times less than ours.

WHAT A JOKE.

[Maxus-MIFA9]

<LI>Denmark

Cleaner S$5,502 Bus driver S$6,193

 

 

Wahhhhhhhhhhh, I want to be the bus driver in Denmark ...

[Heartlander]

You are limiting your concept of natural resources to something that is extractable and consumed eg fossil fuels and mineral ores.

 

The benefit of location is natural, fixed and independent of government policies.

 

For example, if Singapore port were now sited in Abu Dhabi instead of its present location,

 

Singapore is not going to be an important transit point

 

it was between the large trading blocks of europe in the west and Japan/China/SKorea in the east,

 

no matter how competent government policies are.

 

 

 

That is why location is a natural resource.

 

Location largely determines the relevance, importance and hence success of the port.

 

Raffles did not locate to Singapore because he thought "the port will be well managed",

 

he came here for the excellent natural location and natural deep water harbour.

 

 

There exist the tens of thousands miles of coastal land,

 

but it is highly uncommon to find deep water and sheltered harbour out of this long stretch of land.

 

For example along the US coast, there exist many many cities but only 3 ports significance in the

 

houston (south), new jersey/new york in the (east) and long beach, CA (west).

 

This is because location and local marine topography permits deep water harbour to be set up.

 

This is another reason why location suitable for a deep water port is a natural resource.

 

 

Please don't bank too much on this "natural" resource. With the increase competition from regional country, and the ever looming opening of the nordic shipping route, this "natural" resource is not going to last long. Just today was reported the developing of a rival deep sea port between Batam and Bintan. We should all be sweating if the economy depends very much on it.