SG Hard Truth by Prof Tommy Koh

[Wyfitms]

You have just described the newly govt-defined sandwiched class lor.

Some even in their 40's wor

 

Sandwich filling getting thicker and thicker...

[Timbuktu]

Sandwich filling getting thicker and thicker...

Yalor, I know of families (relatives and colleagues as well), both graduates, children schooling, own condo, own car, but always money no enuf, no savings, living from hand to mouth, sometimes quarrel over money problems, some keep to themselves.

 

All because take one loan too many and stretch themselves thin.

 

Actually feel sad for them - people I actually know.

 

"Well Off" only skin deep nia

How many Singapore families in the same situation?

 

That's why garmen worry for sandwiched class lor.

[Felipe]

A french friend, earning more than sin$8k, with 2 kids, finds it hard to survive after all the taxes. so he is now a FT in singapore.

 

u have yet to factor in the taxes they pay annually

But retirement n health care is taken care of.

[Throttle2]

i want to be a cleaner there

 

 

I also cleaner but here. no wonder only $4k per month.

[Throttle2]

Net spending power is one thing, but also social insurance like Healthcare & retirement, & education is also important. The worst thing about going to hospital for treatment, is to worry about the huge bill after that, especially when there is need for operation. Or need to worry about whether you have enough funds for your child education.

 

Also, looks down cleaners, construction workers have more to do with in Singapore society upbringing & mindset then income gap.

 

I do not know about you guys, but I have been drilled since young many time by relative, teachers, parents etc if I do not study, I will end up doing construction work, or clean table etc.

 

So this mindset still exist in many Singaporeans' mind. Sad but that's Singapore.

 

 

KNN, who look down on cleaners ?

 

better look down on those scumbag so called white collared workers (in the guise of property "marketing directors" , "bankers" "consultants")

 

:angry: dont look down on cleaners ok!

Edited May 22, 2012 by Throttle2

[Wyfitms]

I also cleaner but here. no wonder only $4k per month.

 

Shld ask NTUC to make a case study out of u. According to Prof Koh, cleaners in Sg average 800. Pls share your secret with the labour chief on how you can increase your productivity to such a point that you can make 5x more! I believe they are already at a lost on what to do

[Wyfitms]

Yalor, I know of families (relatives and colleagues as well), both graduates, children schooling, own condo, own car, but always money no enuf, no savings, living from hand to mouth, sometimes quarrel over money problems, some keep to themselves.

 

All because take one loan too many and stretch themselves thin.

 

Actually feel sad for them - people I actually know.

 

"Well Off" only skin deep nia

How many Singapore families in the same situation?

 

That's why garmen worry for sandwiched class lor.

 

Sad truth is that in Sg, one has to worry for himself. No one will help u so have to make wise choices on our own.

 

I was also tempted for a short while to get that nicer car (+ wife's nagging) or buy a bigger and more comfy condo. But in the end decided that prices were near its peak and not worthwhile, so ended up with 'lousier' HDB & car, at least i know i can better survive in such uncertain times

 

[Timbuktu]

Sad truth is that in Sg, one has to worry for himself. No one will help u so have to make wise choices on our own.

 

I was also tempted for a short while to get that nicer car (+ wife's nagging) or buy a bigger and more comfy condo. But in the end decided that prices were near its peak and not worthwhile, so ended up with 'lousier' HDB & car, at least i know i can better survive in such uncertain times

Good to live within our means.

Car not fast enuf, lup turbo lor.

 

[Gz0707]

Actually, i think it is our generation that will get pwn big time..

 

My parent's generation has enjoyed good bank interest rates (5% to 7%) and many have saved a good pile of cash. Cost of living was low when they were in their 30s & 40s and a family can survive on a modest civil servant's pay of 2k-3k. And now when it's time to retire, they dun have to worry so much as all debts are cleared and being old, they dun have to eat rich food or buy stuff, so a few hundred is enough to spend each mth.

 

However for many of my peers, they are struggling mth to mth, even with 2 person working, each earning more than 4K. HDB alone eats up all CPF savings. Cash poor and high debt for them. That's the reality for 80% of ppl in our generation. It's sad to hear a couple, both Uni grads and in their late 30s, saying that they feel poor every month...

 

nice observation. this is what i see. my parents fully owned their properties and due to frugal lifestyle, they are still eating and wearing simple clothes, nothing fancy.

 

even the GIC fella below saw the problems coming. he stayed simple, living in 1987 flat and no car. good read below.

 

http://ifonlysingaporeans.blogspot.com/201...es-are-not.html

 

[Bystander]

Sad truth is that in Sg, one has to worry for himself. No one will help u so have to make wise choices on our own.

 

I was also tempted for a short while to get that nicer car (+ wife's nagging) or buy a bigger and more comfy condo. But in the end decided that prices were near its peak and not worthwhile, so ended up with 'lousier' HDB & car, at least i know i can better survive in such uncertain times

 

which is not necessary a bad thing

[Royho1979]

You are limiting your concept of natural resources to something that is extractable and consumed eg fossil fuels and mineral ores.

 

The benefit of location is natural, fixed and independent of government policies.

 

For example, if Singapore port were now sited in Abu Dhabi instead of its present location,

 

Singapore is not going to be an important transit point

 

it was between the large trading blocks of europe in the west and Japan/China/SKorea in the east,

 

no matter how competent government policies are.

 

 

 

That is why location is a natural resource.

 

Location largely determines the relevance, importance and hence success of the port.

 

Raffles did not locate to Singapore because he thought "the port will be well managed",

 

he came here for the excellent natural location and natural deep water harbour.

 

 

There exist the tens of thousands miles of coastal land,

 

but it is highly uncommon to find deep water and sheltered harbour out of this long stretch of land.

 

For example along the US coast, there exist many many cities but only 3 ports significance in the

 

houston (south), new jersey/new york in the (east) and long beach, CA (west).

 

This is because location and local marine topography permits deep water harbour to be set up.

 

This is another reason why location suitable for a deep water port is a natural resource.

 

 

 

 

Great point! If location is not a resource/asset, why would a bungalow in Orchard Road be more expensive than one at Jurong.

 

[Royho1979]

There are some things hard to monetize - like security, availability to healthcare and housing. Comparisons probably can be made between their cities and us, rather as a country vs country.

 

Even if we can't emulate their welfare which is funded by the high taxes, we can invest in our soft skills which is in our natural resource - us!

I have always found our education system to be reactive rather than proactive - the MNCs need engineers, we start a module. You need IT? Let's open up the private schools.

And when the economy changes, we have too many engineers or too few IT experts, because all want to be in finance.

Our education paths are so well defined and our mindset fixed on CBA of an education that we become entrenched in a chosen path too early and stuck with it for most part of the career.

 

Our education system is stressful because we are chasing standards set by others.

Until we can find our unique identity - with the attributes that the world sought, we will continue to be good employees.

 

I agree with your views on education. The whole point of education being a creator of health is not to structure education to meet demand, but to structure education to create demand. We are putting the cart before the horse.

 

Countries that are innovative in certain industry and are dominant in them have very well trained professionals who created the companies and products that spearheaded industries rather than the other way round.

 

E.g.

 

- Before the internet and IT peak, there are just loads of well trained geeks who are interested in computers who are trained in that field and they went to create an industry.

 

The way our education system is, we will always be behind the curve.

 

 

 

[Royho1979]

Yalor, I know of families (relatives and colleagues as well), both graduates, children schooling, own condo, own car, but always money no enuf, no savings, living from hand to mouth, sometimes quarrel over money problems, some keep to themselves.

 

All because take one loan too many and stretch themselves thin.

 

Actually feel sad for them - people I actually know.

 

"Well Off" only skin deep nia

How many Singapore families in the same situation?

 

That's why garmen worry for sandwiched class lor.

 

I know too many young grads couple whole choose to overstretch themselves financially. They only have themselves to blame.

 

Yes the ppty are more ex than last time, but so many young couples are targeting EC and condos as their 1st ppty when they are able to qualify for bread and butter HDB. Some of these people are self-pwn

[Gz0707]

Roy, could they have exceeded the 8k limit previously? hence looking for EC.

 

understand where you come from, just wanted to clarify.

[Elmo]

Roy, could they have exceeded the 8k limit previously? hence looking for EC.

 

understand where you come from, just wanted to clarify.

 

I believe some are in that category of exceeding the income limit.

However, looking at HDB launches, usually the 5-rooms are snapped up first, followed by 4-rms etc which is quite revealing of the aspirations of the applicants to go for the biggest possible.

Coffeeshop talk will also hear couples aiming for condos and cars right after graduation.

 

Whether which group are in the majority, can't tell for sure. But the trend is there.

 

 

[Gz0707]

I believe some are in that category of exceeding the income limit.

However, looking at HDB launches, usually the 5-rooms are snapped up first, followed by 4-rms etc which is quite revealing of the aspirations of the applicants to go for the biggest possible.

Coffeeshop talk will also hear couples aiming for condos and cars right after graduation.

 

Whether which group are in the majority, can't tell for sure. But the trend is there.

 

Elmo, I don't think its wrong to go for 4, 5 or even EA flats. let me explain. 4 and 5 room are better for having kids and can last a longer time vs a 3 room which is borderline for growing a family. EA flats can even house the grandparents as its really big. we are way past the 70s and 80s where I squeezed into a 2 room flat with 2 siblings. The mindset is definitely different now. I am very comfortable in my 5 room flat with kids, which of course was 50% cheaper than prices now, and foreseeably, we can live here for another 10 more years, until my retirement in JB aged home. ;)

 

for condos, no argument there. working pp in their mid 30s and 40s are now under pressure to move into one, even though they cannot afford to. my previous eg of a friend's loan at 1 million for 35 years is still valid. I seem to be the odd one out, not staying in a condo, even if in a suburb. I offered a suggestion to this couple - sell the condo and use the profits to offset a resale flat, hence getting a shorter loan to clear within 15-20 years. This was rejected, as it didn't make sense to them.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Gz0707

[Elmo]

Elmo, I don't think its wrong to go for 4, 5 or even EA flats. let me explain. 4 and 5 room are better for having kids and can last a longer time vs a 3 room which is borderline for growing a family. EA flats can even house the grandparents as its really big. we are way past the 70s and 80s where I squeezed into a 2 room flat with 2 siblings. The mindset is definitely different now. I am very comfortable in my 5 room flat with kids, which of course was 50% cheaper than prices now, and foreseeably, we can live here for another 10 more years, until my retirement in JB aged home. ;)

 

for condos, no argument there. working pp in their mid 30s and 40s are now under pressure to move into one, even though they cannot afford to. my previous eg of a friend's loan at 1 million for 35 years is still valid. I seem to be the odd one out, not staying in a condo, even if in a suburb. I offered a suggestion to this couple - sell the condo and use the profits to offset a resale flat, hence getting a shorter loan to clear within 15-20 years. This was rejected, as it didn't make sense to them.

 

Hi Gz0707,

I agree a bigger flat is better for future family expansion. I was more referring to those who buy beyond their means. Have seen couples just barely meeting the loan assessment going for 5 rm and both are working in sales on commission pay. Really risky case if one of them loses job.

[Bystander]

Hi Gz0707,

I agree a bigger flat is better for future family expansion. I was more referring to those who buy beyond their means. Have seen couples just barely meeting the loan assessment going for 5 rm and both are working in sales on commission pay. Really risky case if one of them loses job.

 

people actually openly acknowledge they buy beyond their means?