Anti FT policy: Middle Income stagnation

[Poker]

  On 5/2/2012 at 4:13 PM, Unidentified said:

there's no smoke without fire.

internet forum was not just here yesterday,its been here since the early 90s.

have you seen such a big resentment with anti FTs,anti pappies back then??

 

i shall say here and then,the pappies are the ones that should thread carefully instead.

 

but a certain percentage doesnt think so

i wld be part of that % if i were still reading ST

[Poker]

well, at least you do have your sources/resources

 

[Wishcumstrue]

  On 5/2/2012 at 2:06 PM, Without_a_car said:

the current anti foreigner sentiment is not xenophobia... but foreigners stagnating wage growth...

CNA is prophetic...

 

Wow! What a powerful and relevent recall.

 

But I think credit should go to local economist, not CNA, as they are the ones who had sounded the same warning 5 years ago.

 

This give me the goose-bump when even in 2006, MOM data was already showing 45% of the jobs created in that year went to foreigners.

 

Remember that was before the opening of 2 IRs and a few months before US financial crisis hit.

 

Even then, the paragraph quoted from this Report has paint a dire strait warning that is ever more a clear and present danger today:

 

"With the rate of immigration, even among unskilled and semi skilled labour at a rate twice of what we experienced in the 90s, at a rate fastest in the developed world, the question is - does this dampen our real wages as we grow? Does the strategy itself dampen real wages and depress real wages at the low and middle end of the spectrums? They are sacred cows but we should step back and think about them," said Yeoh Lam Keong, Vice President, Economic Society of Singapore.

 

History has shown that when wage and living-standard are compromised by displacing local work force with cheaper imports, a society instability and dissent will grow until the underlining stress between Rich-Poor, immigrant vs local divide becomes dangerously explosive.

 

This is a situation ripe for civil unrest and political turmoil.

 

We maybe now on borrowed times.

 

Edited May 2, 2012 by Wishcumstrue

[Without_a_car]

  On 5/2/2012 at 4:47 PM, Wishcumstrue said:

Wow! What a powerful and relevent recall.

 

But I think credit should go to local economist, not CNA, as they are the ones who had sounded the same warning 5 years ago.

 

This give me the goose-bump when even in 2007, MOM data was already showing 45% of the jobs created in that year went to foreigners.

 

Remember that was before the opening of 2 IRs and a few months before US financial crisis hit.

 

Even then, the paragraph quoted from this Report has paint a dire strait warning that is ever more a clear and present danger today:

 

"With the rate of immigration, even among unskilled and semi skilled labour at a rate twice of what we experienced in the 90s, at a rate fastest in the developed world, the question is - does this dampen our real wages as we grow? Does the strategy itself dampen real wages and depress real wages at the low and middle end of the spectrums? They are sacred cows but we should step back and think about them," said Yeoh Lam Keong, Vice President, Economic Society of Singapore.

 

History has shown that when wage and living-standard are compromised by displacing local work force with cheaper imports, a society instability and dissent will grow until the underlining stress between Rich-Poor, immigrant vs local divide becomes dangerously explosive.

 

This is a situation ripe for civil unrest and political turmoil.

 

We maybe now on borrowed times.

 

 

PM ask Singaporeans to raise productivity for wage rise.

That inspired me to go and dig this article...

 

 

[Wishcumstrue]

  On 5/2/2012 at 4:52 PM, Without_a_car said:

PM ask Singaporeans to raise productivity for wage rise.

That inspired me to go and dig this article...

 

Which I think PM Lee was forced to respond as he may had felt being challenged by another famous local economist just last month who warned Singapore's growing income inequality is approaching "dangerous levels" with over-dependence on cheap foreign labour.

 

When the government responded coolly to Prof Lim Chong Yah's proposal for Wage Reform (See Prof Lim's wage proposal won't work, says PM Lee, I fear that they have fallen into a comfort-zone track towards this obvious Disaster.

 

When Prof Lim published his findings and recommendation to the Gov on "DOES SINGAPORE NEED ECONOMIC RESTRUCTURING II OR ANOTHER

Edited May 2, 2012 by Wishcumstrue

[Ngck]

CB.... they raise their wages got productivity increase or not?

 

1 set of rules for the pigs, another for the rest of the animals

 

ppl are just asking for a decent standard of living..... knn....

Edited May 2, 2012 by Ngck

[Cheepo]

The only people who have successfully raised their productivity are politicians, civil servants and bankers ....

 

The rest of us ... oh well.

[RealSabbie]

  On 5/2/2012 at 3:26 PM, Throttle2 said:

but can you at least get pass that $400k mark? Please? Please...

 

My wage is stagnant and my bosses want more for the same pay la, tough life dude.....can count CPF and insurance or not....if can then easily cross leow....will start a new thread when I hit 1m...ask you to be my mentor and guide me you don't want....sigh.....

 

Anyway basically all the things that the middle class wants like private property and cars have increased in prices by 50% over the past 5 years, wages I think on average increase 3 to 5% per year, and 08 09 financial crisis, many lost jobs or wage freeze or reduction....my pay dropped 50% in 2009.

[RealSabbie]

  On 5/2/2012 at 11:26 PM, Cheepo said:

The only people who have successfully raised their productivity are politicians, civil servants and wbankers ....

 

The rest of us ... oh well.

 

[Without_a_car]

  On 5/2/2012 at 7:02 PM, Ngck said:

CB.... they raise their wages got productivity increase or not?

 

1 set of rules for the pigs, another for the rest of the animals

 

ppl are just asking for a decent standard of living..... knn....

 

[KARTer]

  On 5/2/2012 at 1:57 PM, Without_a_car said:

@freestylers09

 

hawkers are the ones truly subsiding Singaporeans...

how so? interested to know more

[Kyrios]

Anyone got more recent data? 2006-2007 article seems to long ago liao..

[Without_a_car]

  On 5/3/2012 at 9:07 AM, Kyrios said:

Anyone got more recent data? 2006-2007 article seems to long ago liao..

 

refer to post 4

[Without_a_car]

  On 5/3/2012 at 8:58 AM, KARTer said:

how so? interested to know more

 

the price for the plate of chicken rice increase slower than the workers wages...

[Itarc]

  On 5/2/2012 at 4:52 PM, Without_a_car said:

PM ask Singaporeans to raise productivity for wage rise.

That inspired me to go and dig this article...

 

Frankly im pretty sick of the same tune sang by the same men. How does productivity increase wage rise? How does one individual be more 'productive'? It must be the efforts of businesses to increase productivity. For low-middle wage earners, time = $. Work 8 hrs, earn 8 hrs. To be more productive, work 12 hours daily? 24 hours? What then?

 

Warren buffet once mentioned that, today's CEOs and bankers earn about 100 times more than 1970s. Are they 100 times more productive? I have a colleague from malaysia, he earns the same as me but in RM. I must be 100% more productive than him? But his living expense is also 50% or less than mine!

 

Wages has many many influencing factors, and productivity seems to be the least of them. Are our ministers 5 times as productive as the president of USA? Is it fair to say that, to increase wage we must first increase productivity?

 

I remembered there was a wayang documentary talking about our govt scheme of retraining low skills workers to help to get higher wage. There is this example of a cleaner who earns like $800 per month, and after learning how to use the clean machine he gets about $1000 per month. And some other driver who manages to drive a bigger class vehicle and gets like a few hundred increment. But the true picture is, these guys are still in the lower wage. They still have problems in financing their family. They are thrown from one low wage job to another. Their slightly higher wage still cannot catchup with the rate of inflation, and its not substainable. They can only be retrain so many times to get a higher pay. The problems are much much bigger than productivity!

 

Phew...just got to get this off my chest.

[Itarc]

And yes i blame the influx of FTs for our situation. Stop tell us that singapore will sink if there are no FTs to support us. If that is true we will sink anyway when we reach 6.5 million. What then? If there are no other way to increase our GDP then our economy is doomed sooner or later.

 

Oh yes when the wages is depressed enough, the inflation continues to climb... and then we are blame for not having enough children.

 

This is just like your wife telling you to work more jobs and earn more money(increase productivity) so that she can buy more expensive stuff(inflation), or else she find other men(FTs). and Even if you did, spending 24 hrs working daily, she complains why u never spend time with her(having more babies).

 

Enough is enough woman!!

[Without_a_car]

  On 5/3/2012 at 9:25 AM, Itarc said:

And yes i blame the influx of FTs for our situation. Stop tell us that singapore will sink if there are no FTs to support us. If that is true we will sink anyway when we reach 6.5 million. What then? If there are no other way to increase our GDP then our economy is doomed sooner or later.

 

Oh yes when the wages is depressed enough, the inflation continues to climb... and then we are blame for not having enough children.

 

This is just like your wife telling you to work more jobs and earn more money(increase productivity) so that she can buy more expensive stuff(inflation), or else she find other men(FTs). and Even if you did, spending 24 hrs working daily, she complains why u never spend time with her(having more babies).

 

Enough is enough woman!!

 

do the same work for less pay?

[Tigerwoods]

  On 5/2/2012 at 7:02 PM, Ngck said:

CB.... they raise their wages got productivity increase or not?

 

1 set of rules for the pigs, another for the rest of the animals

 

ppl are just asking for a decent standard of living..... knn....

Their productivity is value for money! The increased GDP!