LOL.Online battle between Tan Chuan-Jin and Bloggers begun!

[Gz0707]

For first five years of my working life, I stayed at one extreme end of singapore, and worked near the other extreme end. Journey by bus, MRT, then another bus. Travelling time about 3 to 4 hours daily to and fro.

 

Why so much trouble? Because that flat at that extreme end of singapore was one of the very few I could afford with starting-level salary.

 

And I thought this was pretty normal. Now I know that people actually COMPLAIN about this! And demand to be able to stay in mature estates near their workplaces!!

 

I am extreme end of sg, in the west. there are no flats after my area, only factories. in year 2000, the flats here cost 250k max for 5 room or even EA size, with a little known scheme called build and design (tiles and toilets done). now even the 5 room here are selling at 500k. I don't feel rich and I know if I move, it will just be LPPL.

 

how did it get so bad? I know all the younger ones are struggling and looking at super long loans. I don't buy the talk about getting smaller units like 3 room flats in ulu locations. this contradicts the population strategy.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Gz0707

[Stratovarius]

i think its more of just playing with numbers to make you think they are very generous in offering discounts.. take 50k off... sooner or later ppl will treat it as a norm

 

just like the petrol cartel

50k is not generous. you can't even buy a COE with that amount.

 

My guess is that HDB is affordable but it takes up a chunck of your CPF contribution every month. At the end of the day, when you retire, you can't even reach the minimum withdrawal limit which i think is around 120k? A couple earning 8~9k/month maybe able to plan their retirement early by saving or investing but how about those that are less fortunate?

The gahman should stop enphasizing on using CPF for retirement because it is more for paying your housing loan. At the rate which price of public housing is increasing, i'm not surprise that people will be topping up cash to pay for housing loan every month in 10 years time.

[Cwk]

Actually, things only went out of control from 2005 onwards. The '97 crisis gave my generation to catch up bec housing went back to a much saner level relative to income.

 

I really feel sorry for those who grad in the last few years or were preparing to get hitched and had already laid out plans were just going to act on it and got caught out big time.

 

I don't need Swiss standard. I was pretty happy with Singapore standard in 2004.

" I don't need Swiss standard. I was pretty happy with Singapore standard in 2004. " Can't agree more with you. Take a good look around at what's happening, not just here in this corner of the world, but elsewhere too. We need to pause, reflect and see where we have gone so terribly wrong and whether we need to reset the clock back some time. Governments need to be open, receptive to opinions, act in good faith, be courageous to admit wrong when they are wrong, and not take everyone for fools. In Yahoo News, online forums, print media, everywhere, there is so much outpouring of anger and bitterness at the current state of affairs. In many respects, they are not wrong. But it is also important not to lose sight of the fact we can't take everything out on the foreigners. It wouldn't be fair. If we lose that, what would we be? In this time of anger is also a time to understand.

[Raymondism]

Allow me to share my experience... I just booked a 5-room at CCK around 3 weeks ago. Flat cost me 351k for a mid-floor unit.

 

Since me and gf graduated not too long ago (and even while studying, she has been working with prudential for a good 2yrs), our combined income is slightly shy of 4k, we qualify for about 30-35k of additional grant. Therefore, the 10% downpayment has been taken care of.

 

The monthly installment for the flat over 30yrs will be around 1.2k, of which, around 70% will be paid from CPF. The rest is cash topup.

 

What i don't understand is why HDB don't sell flats at cost (or slightly above cost) rather than taking market rate and taking about 50k off the price? Is it purely to prevent buyers to make a handsome profit after the 5yr MOP is up?

 

 

oei who ask u buy 5 room?

[Mllcg]

50k is not generous. you can't even buy a COE with that amount.

 

My guess is that HDB is affordable but it takes up a chunck of your CPF contribution every month. At the end of the day, when you retire, you can't even reach the minimum withdrawal limit which i think is around 120k? A couple earning 8~9k/month maybe able to plan their retirement early by saving or investing but how about those that are less fortunate?

The gahman should stop enphasizing on using CPF for retirement because it is more for paying your housing loan. At the rate which price of public housing is increasing, i'm not surprise that people will be topping up cash to pay for housing loan every month in 10 years time.

 

since we cant even touch our CPF, why not just use it to pay house?

[Shull]

oei who ask u buy 5 room?

 

I see my friend's 4 room in Punggol... damn claustrophobic... it's ok if one decide to move to a bigger flat as family gets bigger.. but for me, i'm sick of moving house (have moved no less than 10 times since young).. so i tell myself, i shall stay there as long as circumstances allow me..

[Dwee]

[Stevelim82]

Agree with the basic principle of living within one's means. However, just looking at the rate of increase of flat prices vs the rate of increase in income, you gotta admit the masses have a point.

 

If HDB can just stop pegging the prices of new flats to 'market value', the kids born today may have hope yet. otherwise, good luck!

 

PAPies, please let us know if your policys are made in such a way that salary will be stagnant while prices of property and cars and other aspect will keep appreciating until there were no more poor people in singapore, in that case all poor will be replaced by foreigners that are more wealthier. Thanks.

[Sabian]

" I don't need Swiss standard. I was pretty happy with Singapore standard in 2004. " Can't agree more with you. Take a good look around at what's happening, not just here in this corner of the world, but elsewhere too. We need to pause, reflect and see where we have gone so terribly wrong and whether we need to reset the clock back some time. Governments need to be open, receptive to opinions, act in good faith, be courageous to admit wrong when they are wrong, and not take everyone for fools. In Yahoo News, online forums, print media, everywhere, there is so much outpouring of anger and bitterness at the current state of affairs. In many respects, they are not wrong. But it is also important not to lose sight of the fact we can't take everything out on the foreigners. It wouldn't be fair. If we lose that, what would we be? In this time of anger is also a time to understand.

We are not taking it out on the foreigners. The MSM like to use that as a distraction. Post '65, we have always had foreigners in our midst participating in our labour force. Their numbers were significant and a number of them genuinely wanted to sink roots.

 

The recent batch of FWs seem to think they shd be entitled to the same things just because they pay taxes but are not keen to sink roots. I find it ironic bec even in the workplace, contract staff have lesser benefits.

 

Recently, the disappointment is with the policies that were obviously not well thought out. Either they want to solve it or they don't want to. I want a decisive cheng hu. Not a wishy washy one. Come forth and let us know this importing of foreigners is a medium term stop gap measure with an end date and tackle the low birth rate with real zeal in the same way they transformed this place into a playground for the rich and slaughtered a few sacred cows along the way. I can go along with the playground for the rich plan but don't treat your own citizens as digits on a spreadsheet.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Sabian

[Espresso]

When you said " ........ I am probably somewhere in the middle 50%, and choose not to have kids partly because I think an average person has a bleak future in Singapore. " it sent a shiver down my spine. You will never know the joy I have experienced being a father of two wonderful sons. This is very sad indeed. The general perception everywhere seems to be that this goverment has a great penchant and talent to hijack everything and anything and turn them into fat, cash cows, and that they would stop at nothing to milk or bilk everyone for all they are worth. The frustration and anger is palpable. ( To Heartlander - this is the crux of the issue in the blog. Understand? Still blur?)

Anyway, don't stop believing and hoping. Wish you well.

 

I have a friend who used to detest, dislike and even hate children when he was single. Now he's married with a kiddo..and he's the best father I know...besides myself of course

[Schneider79]

some things that I can never understand what our HDB ministers or CEOs really say throughout so many years.

 

Young couples can afford to buy flats at current market price.

 

Young couples - how young is young ? 18 shoot gun married ? 28-30 years old still consider young couples or not?

 

Men who graduates from local or oversea university - Lets take a perfect scenario, 16 years old O Levels, 18 years old A levels, 19 or 20 to 21 or 22 serve NS, university minimum 4 years ? Medical 5 years ? U grad is 24 to 26. Lucky life and good company, starting pay $4500. Need to save how long for 10% downpayment for HDB flat ?

CPF contribution $1350 per month. Presume 4 room flat's downpayment is $28k and PRAY the price don't increase. Also need a least 20 months?

 

And why they keep saying 25-30 years loan is affordable ?

[Stratovarius]

since we cant even touch our CPF, why not just use it to pay house?

You can touch the amount in excess of 120k when you retire. With the price of the flats now, most people are using most of their CPF to finance the loan and leaving very minimal for retirement. And that to me, is that public housing is not very affordable.

[Mllcg]

You can touch the amount in excess of 120k when you retire. With the price of the flats now, most people are using most of their CPF to finance the loan and leaving very minimal for retirement. And that to me, is that public housing is not very affordable.

 

same thing.

 

since we are forced to keep 24% into CPF, using the money from there to pay off the loan, we can self save the money supposed to be used in the house. that way, we can control our money. so CPF is strictly for house

[Celicar]

The Gahmen is trying to make the bottom 25% stop reproducing. I think it should go one step further and provide free sterilisation/contraception for those below certain income level. can always import 35k a year instead of 25k

I think in 70s really got offer sterilisation. Scary.

[Pchmj]

Still the question is not answered.

 

Why does a 2nd floor unit cost $68,000 more than a 16th floor unit in the same block? It's true there is inflation, market forces. But $68,000 increase is way too much in 1.5 years, original price is $368,000. That means price increase over 18%, does HDB resale price increase 18% in 1.5 years?

 

This $68,000 can turn from affordable to become unaffordable, if take 25 years loan, monthly installment is over $200 more. It's unfair to say the guy wanting to buy the HDB is picky, unreasonable. He found out from colleague the price of Bedok HDB is $368,000 which is affordable to him, so when it is his turn, he wants to buy it. But to his dismay, price is $68,000 more now.

[Tigerwoods]

the 2 maids are also part-time mistress right?

No lah.. I officially announce to everyone in MCF I GBWH no hanky panky..

[Stratovarius]

same thing.

 

since we are forced to keep 24% into CPF, using the money from there to pay off the loan, we can self save the money supposed to be used in the house. that way, we can control our money. so CPF is strictly for house

It is the same when you are relatively well off. How about those couples earning a combine income of 5k/month with 2 kids? Do you think they can save enough monthly for retirement? The original idea of CPF is to aid citizens when they retire, sort of a pension scheme. I have a few friends in that situation, and they are worrying about how they are going to retire.

[Felipe]

It is the same when you are relatively well off. How about those couples earning a combine income of 5k/month with 2 kids? Do you think they can save enough monthly for retirement? The original idea of CPF is to aid citizens when they retire, sort of a pension scheme. I have a few friends in that situation, and they are worrying about how they are going to retire.

 

in SG, u retire on your kids. your kids will retire on their own kids and the cycle continues.