Luxury cars nudging cheaper cars off road

[1fast1]

It's really nothing about whose faster.

It's about balance and control.

The 'fun' factor in a car, the handling and poise.

You get to enjoy driving, where the point-A-to-B speedsters won't!

 

Watch this FT86 track test video:

http://www.google.com.sg/url?q=http://www....BtO1uIvzdhmq-5A

 

To be respected as a sportscar, it must have fairly good straight line oomph, too.

 

BTW, I know that straight line without handling is nothing. I've driven an E55 AMG (a straight line monster) enough to know I'd never be happy with one.

 

But great handling with mediocre straight line is kuching kurap also. And 6+ to 7s is *nothing* with today's sedans and "ah pek" cars already exceeding that threshold.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Turboflat4

[Astrid]

I can guarantee you that all factory stock and most well-tuned, conservatively-modded FI engines will long outlast our 10-year COE.

 

Why bother with decades of reliability in Singapore?

 

Are you just throwing out catchphrases like "heat soak" to sound smart? Have you actually owned, lived with, driven and tracked one of these cars? I've "lived and loved" many FI cars, so I know the strengths and problems, believe me.

Mechanically, FIs will always be less reliable in engineering design, compared to NA.

Why do you think BMW and Merc took so long to crossover, and only due to the push from Euro emission specs?

 

I know them for a fact and don't need to use catch phrases. I have 35 years of motoring behind me, definitely more salt that you did rice!

And yes, I did own my fair share of FIs, both Japs and Conti ... maybe even before you got yr driving license.

All dissapointments, after a while.

[Astrid]

To be respected as a sportscar, it must have fairly good straight line oomph, too.

 

BTW, I know that straight line without handling is nothing. I've driven an E55 AMG (a straight line monster) enough to know I'd never be happy with one.

 

But great handling with mediocre straight line is kuching kurap also. And 6+ to 7s is *nothing* with today's sedans and "ah pek" cars already exceeding that threshold.

I am not sure if anyone had claimed the FT86 to be an out-and-out sports car.

But with a 6-sec century, it's already faster than many FI 2L cars!

Coupled with great handling, a GTI (and the likes) look tepid.

 

And ah pek chias cannot handle corners for fcuk!

Edited April 22, 2012 by Astrid

[Vega]

Aiya, whether 6s is fast or not is relative. More importantly must compare apple to apple. I seriously doubt the brz can do 6s flat. Even the Type R claim it can do 6 flat but not many drivers can do it, even the pro.

[1fast1]

Mechanically, FIs will always be less reliable in engineering design, compared to NA.

Why do you think BMW and Merc took so long to crossover, and only due to the push from Euro emission specs?

 

I know them for a fact and don't need to use catch phrases. I have 35 years of motoring behind me, definitely more salt that you did rice!

And yes, I did own my fair share of FIs, both Japs and Conti ... maybe even before you got yr driving license.

All dissapointments, after a while.

 

Can't be all that "salty" if you think a century sprint in 6+s is fast. .

 

Aren't you a female? You must be rather old. I always suspected this was an auntie car. [laugh].

 

As I said, please yourself and put your money where your mouth is. Go and buy this car instead of ranting at me and other reasonable naysayers on this forum.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Turboflat4

[Astrid]

Can't be all that "salty" if you think a century sprint in 6+s is fast. .

 

Aren't you a female? You must be rather old. I always suspected this was an auntie car. [laugh].

 

As I said, please yourself and put your money where your mouth is. Go and buy this car instead of ranting at me and other reasonable naysayers on this forum.

I male, just like you.

Motoring is not just about speed.

Been there, done that, probably more than you did - with a few trophies to show.

Say again, 6 flat is very decent for 2L NA and faster than many 2L FIs.

Nobody said it's worth buying - read my first post in this thread!

[1fast1]

I male, just like you.

Motoring is not just about speed.

Been there, done that, probably more than you did - with a few trophies to show.

Say again, 6 flat is very decent for 2L NA and faster than many 2L FIs.

Nobody said it's worth buying - read my first post in this thread!

 

Confused by your screen name - Astrid.

 

I think we're arguing for nothing.

 

If you agree it's not worth buying at the current price, then what's the point of this long discussion? That's essentially all I'm saying!

Edited April 22, 2012 by Turboflat4

[Rubberpad]

in my opinion, the BRZ is potentially another kia koup

 

all show, no substance

Edited April 22, 2012 by Rubberpad

[Astrid]

Confused by your screen name - Astrid.

 

I think we're arguing for nothing.

 

If you agree it's not worth buying at the current price, then what's the point of this long discussion? That's essentially all I'm saying!

People's nick need not be their names mah?

You know where Queen Astrid Park is?

Perhaps that will give you a hint ...

I am only arguing on the fact that it's not all good in FI tecnology yah.

It's still got it's limitations and design issues.

 

Like a well-done beef Wellington is irresistible to chef Gordon Ramsey, a well designed NA engine which churns out 100 BHP/L must be given credit for it's technological ingenuity.

Even Honda had stopped short after it's K20A block, failing to meet strict Euro emissions spec. In fact they had to retune it as i-VTEC, or stop production completely for the last FD2R.

 

But this Toyota-Subaru NA of an engine can still develop 100BHP/L and yet meet Euro emissions spec. Now, that's a feat in Japanese engineering!

 

The near 50:50 weight distribution, F/R RWD setup, low-c.g., 100% symmetrical design, with a rear Torsen LSD is another ball game, altogether!

[Lohkyx]

There's 1 prob with brz thou & it's a coupe unlike ctr so less practical

[1fast1]

People's nick need not be their names mah?

You know where Queen Astrid Park is?

 

Of course. We're practically neighbours, but you don't see me calling myself "Duchess", do you? A bit ah gua, right?

 

I am only arguing on the fact that it's not all good in FI tecnology yah.

It's still got it's limitations and design issues.

 

No doubt. But modern FI has come such a long way, it has no real downside compared to N/A anymore.

 

Like a well-done beef Wellington is irresistible to chef Gordon Ramsey, a well designed NA engine which churns out 100 BHP/L must be given credit for it's technological ingenuity.

Even Honda had stopped short after it's K20A block, failing to meet strict Euro emissions spec. In fact they had to retune it as i-VTEC, or stop production completely for the last FD2R.

 

But this Toyota-Subaru NA of an engine can still develop 100BHP/L and yet meet Euro emissions spec. Now, that's a feat in Japanese engineering!

 

Great, great, totally agreed. I like engineering prowess as much as the next bloke, but I'd much rather people worship "power per unit displacement record-holding" engines showcased in perspex and mounted on pedestals. Rather than having one in my car. Because, in the real world, bragging rights like achieving even 150 bhp/l N/A means nothing if the engine is only 1L in size and your "sports" car is easily overtaken by a Camry.

 

We might have irreconcilable differences on this point. For example, if I was in the US, I would probably drive a US-bred Corvette ZR1 even though it's technologically inferior to the GTR. Simply because a) it's actually faster b) it's more bang for the buck and c) I'm not getting punished for the extra displacement or petrol consumed, unlike in Singapore. I'm guessing you'd be happy to take your marvellously engineered 100bhp/L N/A engine even there.

 

The near 50:50 weight distribution, F/R RWD setup, low-c.g., 100% symmetrical design, with a rear Torsen LSD is another ball game, altogether!

 

Sure, those are the good points. Doesn't outweigh the one rather bad one, IMO. And if I'm in the market for a small, tossable RWD car which is slightly down on power, I'd still rather take a Lotus.

 

[Kiadaw]

I male, just like you.

Motoring is not just about speed.

Been there, done that, probably more than you did - with a few trophies to show.

Say again, 6 flat is very decent for 2L NA and faster than many 2L FIs.

Nobody said it's worth buying - read my first post in this thread!

Just saying,

 

The BRZ doesn't do a flat 6, it did abouthigh6+~low7+ 0-60mph, not century sprint, which will add 0.1sec give & take.

 

Being a manual, most people I reckon, will do closer to 7 sec than 6. So its not actually faster in the real world. Also, FI engine can gain power much more easily, & with tonnes of torque at even low rev.

 

Yes, as a 2L NA, it is quick, but so is 1L NA car producing 100hp. Yes, its a good achievement to achieve 100bhp/l from NA engine, & the RWD low CG chasis will be superior in handling than FWD cars.

 

But in real world road (not track), if I have to rev to redline using premium 98 Oct. fuel, to extract the power, while other FI cars can accerate with almost full torque just light tab on throttle, using standard 95 ron fuel, carrying full size adults on back seats, then it doesn't sound so interesting anymore.

 

Then there is a little brand call BMW, the328i (Manual), a base 3 series model in the US, is tested to do 0-60mph in 5.5 seconds.

Source:BMW 0-60 timing.

 

I do admit that the Beemer cost a little more, but it so much better as a all rounder, IMO.

The 335i touring model with x-drive would be my realistic ideal family oriented sporty jack of all trade DD car for me, & one of my target for my next car. For sure its not best in everything, but its hard to beat as an all rounder (except S4 touring).

 

[Astrid]

Of course. We're practically neighbours, but you don't see me calling myself "Duchess", do you? A bit ah gua, right?

 

IMO. And if I'm in the market for a small, tossable RWD car which is slightly down on power, I'd still rather take a Lotus.

 

Errr ... Tanglin Park and Tanglin View got big big difference hor!

Joking only lah

 

Tried the Lotus Elise. Didn't like it, didn't buy.

Being R/R, it's front is too light ... at >120 km/h on a dry, hot AYE, steering feel/directionality became lighter/lost.

Can't imagine on a wet road w/o much front tyre grip.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Astrid

[Astrid]

We might have irreconcilable differences on this point. For example, if I was in the US, I would probably drive a US-bred Corvette ZR1 even though it's technologically inferior to the GTR. Simply because a) it's actually faster b) it's more bang for the buck and c) I'm not getting punished for the extra displacement or petrol consumed, unlike in Singapore. I'm guessing you'd be happy to take your marvellously engineered 100bhp/L N/A engine even there.

 

Of course in the US, I'd get myself the biggest-cc NA American muscle car!

But definitely not a TC car there! Stay away.

 

[Astrid]

No doubt. But modern FI has come such a long way, it has no real downside compared to N/A anymore.

[/qoute]

 

Not true. Just go to vagsg forum.

Turbo / SC problems still got aplenty!

And am not talking about their famed DSG / mechatronic problems hor.

 

[Astrid]

Just one line to your so-many worded post.

Some people, like me, are just not attracted to FI cars. No appeal whatsoever. Period.

You can mod your TC car all you want, but I am not into modding.

I want power, I buy more cc. I am up to >3L already now.

To each his own.

[Kiadaw]

Not true. Just go to vagsg forum.

Turbo / SC problems still got aplenty!

And am not talking about their famed DSG / mechatronic problems hor.

 

I have turbo in my current & last car. No big issuey at all. My last car, evo had problem with the exhaust manifold (aftermarket), but once its change back to stock cast iron block, all is good (note, never ever change to aftermarket manifold no matter how much gain they tell you, cast manifold is best, end of).

 

I have the lastest TFSI engine from Audi, & you cannot argue with the balance of power, fuel economy, CO2 emission,& smooth power delivery. Its no surprise the engine won multiple awards.

 

There is a reason even BMW M models now are TC.

[Kiadaw]

Just one line to your so-many worded post.

Some people, like me, are just not attracted to FI cars. No appeal whatsoever. Period.

You can mod your TC car all you want, but I am not into modding.

I want power, I buy more cc. I am up to >3L already now.

To each his own.

Oh, no biggy, I heard Ford is bring Mustang to worldwide market, you may want to look out.

 

Cheers.