Genting Perpetual Bonds out for Public

[Scb11980]

Get investors to sign off that they understand the risk and so it's an educated risk and self to blame is not exactly how sure their coffin money is safe. .. anyway, to each his own. Hope most don't end up without coffin money. .

 

infact all these safe guards are a joke

 

must take test and all but buy China (S Chip) shares listed in Singapore , no need to take test

but china shares - falling left right and centre

look at china fibre - MAS asking to freeze their account now

 

 

[FastFastCar]

Get investors to sign off that they understand the risk and so it's an educated risk and self to blame is not exactly how sure their coffin money is safe. .. anyway, to each his own. Hope most don't end up without coffin money. .

No difference from asking uncle and aunty to invest in shoebox units mah, maybe you should start a blog educating people on how to safeguard their coffin money

[Windwaver]

Actually this 'more like preference shares' securities can be good for those with excess cash sitting in the bank drawing less than 1% interest . Having said that, with no redemption date and only 5.125%, the risk is slightly high but like what I've said, if you're not in need of the cash, it's good getting dividends. On the other hand, if you know your way around, it's not that tough using that same money to make 7% to 8% regularly , no need to kena stuck in this. I have a good feel that it'll trade below par within T+3.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Windwaver

[2009k]

No difference from asking uncle and aunty to invest in shoebox units mah, maybe you should start a blog educating people on how to safeguard their coffin money

 

 

 

Then why you said this?

 

 

Not really banks' fault la, blame the stucturers, anyway, don't worry la, under the new CKA and Fair Dealing Framework, ah gong ah ma very safe.

 

 

Shoebox investment may not be totally bad, again it depends on timing. But for property investment location comes first. Shoebox may be seen as a temporarily quick buck for developers as well as flippers today. But if Singapore is to increase density to 10mil people, shoebox in Singapore will be just as common as in Hong Kong...

 

Anyway, just don't be blinded and really learn about the instruments etc before diving in.

 

Cheers.

[FastFastCar]

I feel that a lot of things are caveat emptor , ultimately you are responsible for your own decisions, in 2009, I was at abn ambro bank and they will pushing me to buy mini bonds, I read the brochure and couldn't understand the underlying structure, hence I didn't invest

[Tedlhw]

I feel that a lot of things are caveat emptor , ultimately you are responsible for your own decisions, in 2009, I was at abn ambro bank and they will pushing me to buy mini bonds, I read the brochure and couldn't understand the underlying structure, hence I didn't invest

 

Bro, i think you should verify your facts before whacking....

 

Firstly, 2009, already no ABN Amro, its either RBS or ANZ(2007 already sold liao), unless you walked into ABN Amro Private Bank and they start selling you minibond before account even open.

 

2nd, 2009 you sure still got mini bond for sale? By end 2008 already the whole mini-bond issue all over the papers.

 

 

[Picanto]

I feel that a lot of things are caveat emptor , ultimately you are responsible for your own decisions, in 2009, I was at abn ambro bank and they will pushing me to buy mini bonds, I read the brochure and couldn't understand the underlying structure, hence I didn't invest

 

f--king crap from you again. please wake up

[Scb11980]

f--king crap from you again. please wake up

 

hey can be more subtle abit can or cannot

 

you f him from behind

then crap him

 

do you think he will not wake up

 

 

[FastFastCar]

Bro, i think you should verify your facts before whacking....

 

Firstly, 2009, already no ABN Amro, its either RBS or ANZ(2007 already sold liao), unless you walked into ABN Amro Private Bank and they start selling you minibond before account even open.

 

2nd, 2009 you sure still got mini bond for sale? By end 2008 already the whole mini-bond issue all over the papers.

Hmmm, guess I remembered the date wrongly was it 08? It was on 30th or 30 something floor of raffles quay, that time minibonds already in the later tranches already, of cos later it was bought over by rbs and then anz, I know because I am still their priority banking customer even though I left with only 3 cents there

[Picanto]

hey can be more subtle abit can or cannot

 

you f him from behind

then crap him

 

do you think he will not wake up

 

 

 

if i cannot wake him up, no one in mcf can.leave this dirty job to me

[FastFastCar]

if i cannot wake him up, no one in mcf can.leave this dirty job to me

 

You are so noble.

[Emile12345]

250K genting bonds trading below par at 99.5. Why even bother about the retail tranche

[Bic_cherry]

actually all these bonds.. and also the latest sg government bond is bad news to property agents..

these will soak up the cash in the mkt.

The Straits Times; Published on Apr 16, 2012

Perpetual securities not the same as perpetual bonds

THERE are major differences between perpetual capital securities and perpetual bonds, and these terms should not be used interchangeably ('Genting S'pore reaches out to retail investors', last Tuesday; and 'Genting may be a sure bet but know risks of perpetual bonds', last Wednesday).

A bond is an IOU, and is listed as a liability on the balance sheet of an issuer, whereas perpetual capital securities are accounted as capital of the issuer.

Also, a bond receives regular coupon payments; perpetual capital securities receive dividends/distributions (at the discretion of the issuer). A missed coupon payment on a bond can result in a credit event or default. In contrast, perpetual securities can afford to miss dividends/distributions without any credit event.

A bond is ranked above a preference share and, in some cases, has the same ranking as creditors; perpetual capital securities may rank lower than creditors, or in line with preference shares.

It should also be noted that bonds, preference shares and perpetual capital securities are all plain vanilla or straight instruments and have been in existence for a long time.

In the case of the various perpetuals that have been issued in the Singapore market in the first quarter of this year, for example, those by Genting and Ascendas, they are not convertible; giving the impression that these products are hybrids is inappropriate.

A hybrid refers to a product that has equity and bond features, for example, convertible preference shares or convertible bonds. Thus only those securities that have both the characteristics of bonds and equity would qualify as hybrid securities.

I am unaware of any current perpetual bond issue in the Singapore market, though they may exist elsewhere.

Mano Sabnani

Perpetual securities not the same as perpetual bonds

Edited April 16, 2012 by Bic_cherry

[Bic_cherry]

250K genting bonds trading below par at 99.5. Why even bother about the retail tranche

Could I just say here that Genting SG PLC is actually quite sneaky and trying to get as much $$$ as possible?

 

If U are referring to the S$1.8B trance (Mar2012) http://sg.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=B3:7ZEB.SI , today @99.54c, I understand that that institutional tranche has a lot denomination size of 250K (approx $250K per lot) whereas the retail tranche is of min denomination size 1K: U can buy/ sell just $1K worth of these securities on SGX unlike the former. The low denominational size hurdle to investor participation in both the retail IPO as well as convenience in trading the retail tranche on the SGX trading platform would be an added 'bonus' as compared to the institutional tranche, this I guess might add at least 2 cents to the retail tranche secondary mkt price as compared to the pricing for the institutional tranche.

 

That said, I believe that all things being equal, the share value of Genting shares will surely fall if more such securities are created and released, preference shares notwithstanding as Genting's debt burden would then be quite high.

 

Just my 2c.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Bic_cherry

[FastFastCar]

Well said, one is OTC and one is traded on sgx, vast difference in liquidity, having said that I no money for either, just bought 1k of Aberdeen em fund today

[Emile12345]

Well said, one is OTC and one is traded on sgx, vast difference in liquidity, having said that I no money for either, just bought 1k of Aberdeen em fund today

 

That's the common perception, but in reality OTC is rather liquid as well. The genting spread on OTC is now $0.50, which translates to 0.5%. 250K to investors (not retail ones) is really nothing. A decent car today can cost 250K already, and skyhabitat in bishan can sell for $1600psf. Singaporeans are rich, very rich in fact!